Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Momar 10-28-06, 11:42 PM	As the title says I'm making a conjurer, focusing using the master specialist PrC for a party of four mages. Any advice on a build would be appreciated, as well as advice on what schools to drop. There was a similar thread a little bit ago and the drop choices seemed to be evocation, enchantment, necromancy, and illusion as a distant fourth but I'd like to know if any one thinks the party make-up should affect my choices. One of the other four is going beguiler/something focusing on mind-affecting spells and another is going to be an ultimate magus evoker with the standard idea of fireballs all day long. The final member is undecided at present. I'm pretty sure from what I know of the player and character concept the evoker will drop illusion and enchantment if that matters (if he takes the super specialist option I can't really say what his third choice might be, conjuration maybe). As for my build I'm thinking Wiz3/Master Specialist10/Thaumaturgist4/Alienist3 Feats H SF (conjuration) 1 Augment Summoning 3 Summon Elemental 6 Rapid Spell 9 Metamagic School Focus 12 Arcane Disciple 15 Cloudy Conjuration Thau 2 ??? 18 ??? Alien 3 ??? We're starting somewhere around 6th level. Sorry, but I won't have my stats until right before the first game starts so just assume the worst and try to keep int as the only critical stat. This build is just a preliminary idea, so if you have something that works much better as a conjurer I'm not adverse to scrapping the whole thing. The build MUST, however, be a primary arcane caster type. Oh, before I forget, all 3.5 books except Unapproachable East (is that even 3.5?) and UA with the exception of the paragon classes. No dragon magazine either. On the note of Alienist, is the pseudonatural template sufficiently better than celestial/fiendish to warrant the lose of all of the other critters I could summon? In other words, how useful are the demons, elementals, and whatever else I'll be losing? For those of you wondering, my DM decided to give me a bonus feat at thaumaturgist 2 if I already have augment summoning at that point, so that's why I have that up there. Finally, for the last guy what type of caster do you think would best fit the group? I was thinking either a transmuter or abjurer, input? On a related note, between whatever you suggest for him and the conjurer which do you think is more vital to the party? I'm off at college and thus might not be playing all the time while the other guy will, so I might switch with him if you think a summoner's vital to the party's health. Sorry for any posting errors, this was my first post on the CO board (or any wizard's board for that matter).
runestar 10-29-06, 12:41 AM	You all are going to need some meatshields, maybe leadership to nab a few fighter cohorts?:P
X-Codes 10-29-06, 01:23 AM	At first level, summoning spells leave much to be desired. At the same time, Cloudy Conjuration is really only noticably good early on. So, at first level pick up Spell Focus (Conjuration) and Cloudy Conjuration. It combines really well with Grease. You can also use Acid Splash spells for an economic way to create the clouds. There are also a number of variants to consider as a specialist Conjurer. CM's Focused Specialist, PHB II's Abrupt Jaunt, UA's Rapid Summoning, and the UA option to trade Scribe Scroll for Augment Summoning at first level are all perfectly viable options. In fact, I encourage you to drop Evocation, Enchantment, and Illusion to pay for Focused Specialist. More summons are always better. You can afford to take Augment Summoning at 3rd level, making the Augment Summoning option kinda moot, unless you never plan on using Scribe Scroll. Waiting until ECL 9 or longer for Augment Summoning, however, is just not viable. I also think you should pick either the Abrupt Jaunt or Rapid Summoning variants, since your familiar is going to be weak. For future feats, if you pick the Abrupt Jaunt variant, take Craft Wand at 6th, Summon Elemental at 9th, and Residual Magic at 12th. If you pick the Rapid Summoning variant, switch Summon Elemental and Residual Magic. If you pick the Augment Summoning variant, take Imbued Summoning at level 3. If you have both Augment Summoning *and* Rapid Summoning, then go a completely different route: Imbued Summoning at 3rd, Metamagic School Focus (Conjuration) at 6th, Residual Magic at 9th, and either Craft Wand or Craft Staff at 12th. If you still want to be a Thaumaturgist, you can still take Arcane Disciple at 15th and get your 4 levels. Pseudonatural creatures are essentially the same as a fiendish or celestial creature with one major difference, they smite while Pseudonatural creatures have True Strike. This can be very useful when summoning a monster like a Scorpion. Whether or not it's worth losing out on summoning the other outsiders, elementals, etc is purely a judgement call. I personally don't like the flavor of the alienist class (i.e. being a freak of nature). Conjurer 6/Master Specialist 10/Thaumaturgist 4 looks better to me (in more ways than one).
Momar 10-29-06, 01:45 AM	Upon rereading it I realized that the part about UA is pretty unlcear, but what I meant to say was that I can only use the paragon classes from that book, so I can't do any of the variants from that. I never liked familiars and I've heard that Abrupt Jaunt variant can be a life saver, so that has a green light. On the craft wand/staff feats, what would I be using those items for? Is there some type of exploit with that or is it just for more summons, buffs for summons, and otherwise useful spells (which is a good enough reason right there)?
X-Codes 10-29-06, 02:02 AM	On the craft wand/staff feats, what would I be using those items for? Is there some type of exploit with that or is it just for more summons, buffs for summons, and otherwise useful spells (which is a good enough reason right there)? The Residual Magic feat lets you use your own CL and ability scores to determine the strength of a spell you cast from a Wand as long as you cast the same spell the turn before. You can also use the same Metamagic feat over and over for free after the first shot (If you cost an Imbued Summon Monster IV in a 5th-level slot, you can then cast another Imbued Summon Monster IV only this time in a 4th-level slot, not having to apply the feat beforehand). Granted it holds a lot more viability for Clerics (for Healing spells) and Sorcerers (who have better Metamagic use), but it still works for Wizards.
Momar 10-29-06, 05:42 PM	Now I know, and knowing is half the battle. As for leadership I think it might be disallowed, or at least no tanks. That and my DM makes us lose 20% of the exp per advenure we bring our cohort on. I forgot to mention, this is a FR campaign, so stuff from FR material is allowed too. No incantatrix though. Also, thanks for the input guys!
PhaedrusXY 10-29-06, 07:54 PM	I would definitely look into abusing some Circle Magic, since it is FR.
X-Codes 10-29-06, 08:05 PM	I would definitely look into abusing some Circle Magic, since it is FR. I would, too, although thats a bit later on. Despite that, you do have access to Hathran, which gives you some summoning goodies. It also shares a racial pre-requisite with Rashemi Elemental Summoning. Finally, it gives the opportunity to pick up Circle Leader and Great Circle Leader. As for a cohort, make it a Male Rashemi Spellcaster. They're typical role in Rashemi society is as magic item creators. Since your DM gives a stupid penalty for bringing cohorts along, just leave 'em at home.
Ikeren 10-29-06, 08:41 PM	You need to find a way to get Lesser Planar Ally on the wizard spell list I believE (unless Lesser Planar Binding or whatever the wizard version is can count). I do not know the master specialist PRC, so if that provides Lesser Planar Ally, please ignore me.
X-Codes 10-29-06, 10:32 PM	You need to find a way to get Lesser Planar Ally on the wizard spell list I believE (unless Lesser Planar Binding or whatever the wizard version is can count). I do not know the master specialist PRC, so if that provides Lesser Planar Ally, please ignore me. Arcane Disciple (Summoner) gives Lesser Planar Ally as a spell.
Momar 10-30-06, 01:48 AM	Thankfully my DM just picked up UE so that's off the no use list. Next time I see him I'll look up that rashemi elemental thing. This could all be a moot point though because he's thinking of making us red wizards story wise. The class of the same name has circle magic too if I remember so I'll look into taking that.
Pseudoephedrine 10-30-06, 01:52 AM	I notice you don't have Extend Spell listed. It's a great selection for conjurers, especially if you've also got Metamagic School Focus, since the two feats will end up letting you extend three summoning spells for free. I suggest using them on your highest level Summon Monster spells, and working towards getting a rod of lesser extend ASAP (it's only 3000 gp). Here's one idea for your first few feats: 1st: Spell Focus (Conjuration), Scribe Scroll (free), Extend Spell 3rd: Augment Summoning 6th: Metamagic School Focus If you're planning to go into Thaumaturgist, don't get Augment summoning, since you'll get it as a bonus feat eventually.
Momar 10-30-06, 01:57 AM	My DM cleared me getting a bonus feat at thaumaturgist 2 if I already have Augment Summoning, which I intend to by the time I enter thaumaturgist, assuming I don't scrap that class for red wizard (I still need to look that up). I guess I should update the original post with that.
Pseudoephedrine 10-30-06, 02:34 AM	That's pretty sweet. Go for it then. I'd say other than that, you should scrap "Cloudy Conjuration" and take "Arcane Disciple" as late as possible (just before you go into Thaum). Also, don't forget that Summon Elemental only works if you have a 4th level summoning spell available. It's a good 9th level feat, but don't take it at 3rd or 6th. If you have the PHB2, Imbued Summoning is also a really good feat at high levels, since it lets you cast up to 3rd level buffs on creatures when you summon them. Just remember that Augment Summoning gives your creatures enhancement bonuses to Str and Con, so you don't want to cast Bull's Strength (because it won't stack). Also, here's a great thread on which monsters to summon: http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=565674