Allowing Warchanter in Core+ECS party? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Allowing Warchanter in Core+ECS party? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
the shaderaven
01-14-05, 05:21 AM We are starting an Eberron campaign soon and the DM restricted us to PHB + DMG + Eberron Campaign Setting only. I can see his reasoning to do this because although he is a good DM, neither he is prepared to deal with some optimised mostrosities from the splatbooks, nor some of the players are prepared to create such and more splat books will actually hurt the game for everyone rather that make it more enjoyable. The party consist of the following:
Human Barbarian (Pretty standart Power Attack plus Improved Trip grunt).
Dwarven Cleric (Who is picturing himself more as an armorsmith and healer so will hardly turn into some cleric-archer-ish doom)
Human Sorceress (Pyromaceress with the mark of passage that is emphasizing more on the first part of the word firepower that on the second one)
Shifter Rogue/Ranger/Weretouched Master/(eventually)Horizon Walker (Thats me - I know the fact that I have three classes more than the rest should tell something, but I actually tried to create not-so-optimised build this time)
Changeling Bard (Who is trying to make himself at least moderately usefull in melee by puting his second and third best stats in Con and Str... otherwise his feats are strictly bardic music orientated)

The Bard got really hooked up on the Warchanter PrC from the complete warrior. I don't like the way his character may take because as a fighter/scout hybrid I was really counting on his support as an infiltrator/spellcaster one during my "behind the enemy ranks" operations :D , but if more martial character is what he wants to play - I wont try to ruin his day. The problem is our DM is not sure wether this class won't shift the power curve. I dont see the rest of his abilities as really overpowering - especaly since we dont have a dedicated summoner and/or lots of cohorts, but the Inspire Recklessness song is ringing an alarm clock in my mind. Won't this together with power attack and a 2-h weapon (especially latter when he can combine it with his inspire courage song) shift the balance of our group beyond what the DM has prepared for us? He and the bard are the only one that will be Powerattacking in this fashion, but still... neither I (provided i think i have a chance to finish my opponent with ths pownce), nor the sorceress (provided she is safe enough for the moment) will mind sacraficing a bit of AC to make sure those Double Scimitar strikes + Bite + SA damage + FE damage or barrage of scourching rays hit.

So, can you give me your proffesional oppinion on this matter? Will the warchanter shifft this party balance beyond what our DM is expecting? Have in mind that none of the players (maybe except me) is really a min/maxer.
the shaderaven
01-14-05, 07:38 AM *bump* Is this more of a question for the Classes board?
Wizu
01-14-05, 07:49 AM Whats Dm to do would be my pick. But hey, as I crawl back to the topic, warchanter is not an abusable class, its just specialised. Okay, you ditch the ac for massive damage bonus, fine. Now gimmee an psionic trickster choker (preferably via polymoprh, not the race) with vampires kiss with elusive target and you have one sorry barbarian and bard. There is much strenght in having atleast 10 ac young padawan, when you choose to confort an elastic dude with negative energy capacities.

... sides, it makes for an awesome BBEG! ^^;;
the shaderaven
01-14-05, 07:57 AM Thats my point - the dm won't put a psionic trickster choker (via polymoprh) with vampires kiss and elusive target against us. Most of our enemies will be NPC fighters and rogues (the DMG samples) plus some stuff from MM and ECS. Im not asking if Warchanter is abusable class in a CO environment - I know that there are much worse builds that this. My problem is if it is abusable or overpowered in the said scenario - making the DM feel sorry that he don't have psionic trickster choker (via polymoprh) with vampires kiss and elusive target to stop us.
Gnetum
01-14-05, 07:59 AM inspire recklessness (with WarC 3) is a nice addition to a Bard build.

yet I think the trade-off is fair cause it causes the bard to delay his spell progression by 3 lvls.

not overpowered at all (e.g, less than inspire courage boosted by BoED feats).
Wizu
01-14-05, 08:01 AM Ahuh, in that case, warchanter is devastating if used properly.

It gets more interesting when you add leadership and few 1st level warriors... 0.o
the shaderaven
01-14-05, 08:01 AM That reminds me of sth else I wanted to ask - the warchanter levels stack with his bard level, but they don't stack when determining his access to new songs. Does this mean his inspire courage bonuses will continue to increase or not?
Gnetum
01-14-05, 08:08 AM they do not increase with WarC levels.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
the shaderaven 01-14-05, 05:21 AM	We are starting an Eberron campaign soon and the DM restricted us to PHB + DMG + Eberron Campaign Setting only. I can see his reasoning to do this because although he is a good DM, neither he is prepared to deal with some optimised mostrosities from the splatbooks, nor some of the players are prepared to create such and more splat books will actually hurt the game for everyone rather that make it more enjoyable. The party consist of the following: Human Barbarian (Pretty standart Power Attack plus Improved Trip grunt). Dwarven Cleric (Who is picturing himself more as an armorsmith and healer so will hardly turn into some cleric-archer-ish doom) Human Sorceress (Pyromaceress with the mark of passage that is emphasizing more on the first part of the word firepower that on the second one) Shifter Rogue/Ranger/Weretouched Master/(eventually)Horizon Walker (Thats me - I know the fact that I have three classes more than the rest should tell something, but I actually tried to create not-so-optimised build this time) Changeling Bard (Who is trying to make himself at least moderately usefull in melee by puting his second and third best stats in Con and Str... otherwise his feats are strictly bardic music orientated) The Bard got really hooked up on the Warchanter PrC from the complete warrior. I don't like the way his character may take because as a fighter/scout hybrid I was really counting on his support as an infiltrator/spellcaster one during my "behind the enemy ranks" operations :D , but if more martial character is what he wants to play - I wont try to ruin his day. The problem is our DM is not sure wether this class won't shift the power curve. I dont see the rest of his abilities as really overpowering - especaly since we dont have a dedicated summoner and/or lots of cohorts, but the Inspire Recklessness song is ringing an alarm clock in my mind. Won't this together with power attack and a 2-h weapon (especially latter when he can combine it with his inspire courage song) shift the balance of our group beyond what the DM has prepared for us? He and the bard are the only one that will be Powerattacking in this fashion, but still... neither I (provided i think i have a chance to finish my opponent with ths pownce), nor the sorceress (provided she is safe enough for the moment) will mind sacraficing a bit of AC to make sure those Double Scimitar strikes + Bite + SA damage + FE damage or barrage of scourching rays hit. So, can you give me your proffesional oppinion on this matter? Will the warchanter shifft this party balance beyond what our DM is expecting? Have in mind that none of the players (maybe except me) is really a min/maxer.
the shaderaven 01-14-05, 07:38 AM	bump Is this more of a question for the Classes board?
Wizu 01-14-05, 07:49 AM	Whats Dm to do would be my pick. But hey, as I crawl back to the topic, warchanter is not an abusable class, its just specialised. Okay, you ditch the ac for massive damage bonus, fine. Now gimmee an psionic trickster choker (preferably via polymoprh, not the race) with vampires kiss with elusive target and you have one sorry barbarian and bard. There is much strenght in having atleast 10 ac young padawan, when you choose to confort an elastic dude with negative energy capacities. ... sides, it makes for an awesome BBEG! ^^;;
the shaderaven 01-14-05, 07:57 AM	Thats my point - the dm won't put a psionic trickster choker (via polymoprh) with vampires kiss and elusive target against us. Most of our enemies will be NPC fighters and rogues (the DMG samples) plus some stuff from MM and ECS. Im not asking if Warchanter is abusable class in a CO environment - I know that there are much worse builds that this. My problem is if it is abusable or overpowered in the said scenario - making the DM feel sorry that he don't have psionic trickster choker (via polymoprh) with vampires kiss and elusive target to stop us.
Gnetum 01-14-05, 07:59 AM	inspire recklessness (with WarC 3) is a nice addition to a Bard build. yet I think the trade-off is fair cause it causes the bard to delay his spell progression by 3 lvls. not overpowered at all (e.g, less than inspire courage boosted by BoED feats).
Wizu 01-14-05, 08:01 AM	Ahuh, in that case, warchanter is devastating if used properly. It gets more interesting when you add leadership and few 1st level warriors... 0.o
the shaderaven 01-14-05, 08:01 AM	That reminds me of sth else I wanted to ask - the warchanter levels stack with his bard level, but they don't stack when determining his access to new songs. Does this mean his inspire courage bonuses will continue to increase or not?
Gnetum 01-14-05, 08:08 AM	they do not increase with WarC levels.