Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Quintessence 07-03-03, 07:32 PM	A while back I read and was impressed by Klunt's Bard 7 / Holy Liberator 3 / Mystic Wanderer 1 / Heartwarder 9 Build. I thought it might work well as a potential build for my forest gnome fey wanna-be character. To actually become a fey though I'd have to swap out the third level of Holy Liberator for an extra level of Heartwarder (using it's +1 caster level to boost the Holy Liberator's casting ability). It bothered me though that I wouldn't be able to take the Leadership feat until 12th level. So I came up with this alternative high charisma build which requires less feats: Bard 4 / Gnome Trickster 3 / Holy Liberator 3 / Mystic Wanderer 1 / Tree Friend 5. The Gnome Trickster is from Dragon Annual 5 and the Tree Friend is from Dragon 307. The benefits of this build is fewer feat requirements up front, comparable Charisma bonuses, slightly better saves and BaB as well as more hit points. You also reach feydom at 16th level instead of 20th. I don't know what I'd put the last 4 levels into, perhaps even Heatwarder. The main trade-off is spell level: instead of being a high level caster you only get a variety of nature oriented spell abilities that may or may not be useful during every session. I was just wondering if anyone had any feedback, good or bad, to offer considering this build. Would it be worthwhile? Thanks a bunch.;)
Snow Savant 07-03-03, 09:54 PM	Forest Gnome is +1 ECL now per the RoF book. Like you, I dig Klunt's build. But what I need to know is, what is the primary emphasis of your Bard? High spellcasting DC's/Spell Selection, Bard Music, Melee/Archery Prowess, best combination of the above? Also, I don't have info. on the Gnome Trickster, but I do on the Tree Friend. Where are you getting the Wild. Lore (now Survival) 8 ranks? Since you are losing 5 spellcasting levels right off the bat with Tree Friend, you really should commit to making the remaining 15 levels with full spellcaster progression ... or go the CHA-warrior route with levels of Soldier of Light/HL, Warrior Skald, etc. Snow:)
Quintessence 07-03-03, 10:54 PM	Since I started my character before RoF was released my DM has allowed me to use a toned down version of the Forest Gnome as an an ECL 0 race. Without any ability increases above the norm I don't believe that their abilities warrant an ECL of +1. :sad: Three levels of Gnome trickster grant +3 BaB, a high Ref track, the ability to use your character level for purposes of casting all illusion spells, a special feint like ability usuable once a day, +2 skill bonuses to escape artist and tumble and finally a +2 Chr bonus. The 8 ranks of survival have to be purchased cross class or along with the Cosmopolitain feat. As far as the character emphasis goes, the best combination of the abilities you mentioned with a particular focus on making the character a fey/trickster type. Darting in and out of combat, confounding oponents and generally making mischief.:smirk:
Snow Savant 07-03-03, 11:21 PM	Sorc4 / Rog3 / Virtuoso2 / ArcaneTrickster4 / XXX7 This prefix seems to fit your criteria to the "T". In 13 levels, we get: 1. BAB +7 2. 10 spellcaster levels (5th level Sorc spells) 3. +4d6 Sneak Attack 4. Access to all Bard Song abilities, 5 levels of Perform as a core-class skill, 2 Bard Song Usages (the latter 2 can be expanded via feats). *** In the remaining 7 levels, you can customize your build to include levels of HL, Tree Friend, Gnome Trickster, Warrior Skald, Soldier of Light, Shadowdancer, even more Virtuoso or AT levels ... you name it. All of these PrC's could easily be integrated into the prefix. Since your character concept sounds like it has some interest personal quirks to it, you could experiment or mix-&-match PrC's to suit your tastes. Bard instead of Sorc is also possible in the prefix, although it runs into potential XP penalties with the Rogue level part of the AT build. If you took all 7 extra levels as +1 BAB/Level classes (CHA-based, of course), you would end up with a respectable BAB +13. Also, if you take Tree Friend up to level 5 (to get Fey conversion), you can re-arrange the build above in regards to its levelled structure to get Fey status more sooner than later. Hope this helps. Snow :cloud9:
Funny Slaughter 07-04-03, 03:44 AM	i think its funny, now even you, snow, gave advice that sorcerer/virtuoso is better then a bard. but after all i agree, just wondering since you was one of the frontliners in the defense of core-bard even in multiclass-builds. gs Funny
Snow Savant 07-04-03, 11:08 AM	There are times when you should go straight Bard .... and there are times when you should go Sorc/Virtuoso. Both have their pros and cons. Come 3.5, the gap spreads a little ... and Bard with his ASF bonus becomes more attractive. And one should never ever underestimate the value of Bardic Lore. Anything that gives you tactical and strategic intelligence is worth its weight in gold. XO, Snow