Post/Author/DateTime	Post
AngelLemmingThief 06-23-06, 09:48 AM	I've been thinking on and off about a class to use instead of, or in addition to, some templates. The idea being that the class has only one class ability and that is to increase stats. I was wondering how COers might balance such a class. I'm not really interested in making the class, this is more of a theoretical exercise (hence I'm here and not on the classes forum). There are obviously a few factors to balance including - BAB HD type Saves Skills Stat boosts As a basic start I was wondering about a class that has poor BAB, all bad saves, d6 HD, rubbish skills (TBD), and +2 to every stat per level. Is that broken? Thoughts on a postcard...
Warmage_Smurf 06-23-06, 11:09 AM	Pretty sure that's broken, for the same reason that War Hulk is broken... Let's assume your basic fighter type takes this class for 4 levels... Now, that's 4 levels of no BAB you might argue, and all bad saves too, and also rubbish skills and a d6 hitdie... well, yes, BUT: 4 levels of this class grants you +8 to your strength - ie, +4 to hit - the same amount of BAB you lost - plus, you're doing more damage too... This class adds +4 to all your saves just through increased ability scores, so the saves aren't really affected at all.. d6 HD means nothing when you're getting +2 con everytime you take this class.. After 4 levels of it, you've suddenly got +4 hitpoints per level (Or the equivilant of a d14 HD class, if such a thing existed... Not to mention that bonus con will improve all your other class's hitdie too) Crap skills? Well, yes, but EVERY STAT INCREASES BY 2 EACH LEVEL... This means that all your previous skills that you got in old classes more or less increase by the equiv of one rank anyways, since the governing stat that regulates them will always be 2 higher, therefore granting a +1 bonus... Erm, I'm kind of tired, so this is a somewhat disjointed argument, but hopefully you see the bad in this class... Umm, fix wise... Make it 3 levels only, maybe, and make a prereq that your highest ability score can only be 12... Then, maybe even chuck in +1 spellcasting level per class... Now the class can exist to help players improve weak characters... please note, this could still be overpowered (If I was a 1st level sorcerer, and the ability scores thing was this class's only prereq, i'd get myself 12 in all my stats, then take it in a flash - 3 levels later, I've got 18 in everything, and didn't lose out on any spellcasting)...
Ashlan 06-23-06, 11:12 AM	First, this isn't really the place for this. It should probably go on the Class / PrC board; however, from an optimization point of view, YES, this is TOTALLY OVERPOWERED! Consider a Fighter 20 vs Fighter 16 / Your Class 4. They lose 2 feats, 2 points of BAB, 8 Skill points (+ Int) and 1 point of Fort save They gain +4 to hit and damage from Str, +10 Skill points (from Int if taken at the end of the build, more if taken earlier), +4 AC from Dex, +4 to all saves. The HP difference varies depending on your starting Con but with a starting Con 10 its 72 HP more for the combo (on average). It seams way too powerful. <edit> bah, too slow </edit> <edit2> ooh, thought of an even better way to break this, when I get a chance I will post it, assuming someone doesn't beat me to it again </edit2>
AngelLemmingThief 06-23-06, 12:57 PM	OK, so that is overpowered. What about if you make it +2 to one stat of choice per level?
AngelLemmingThief 06-27-06, 01:44 PM	Hmmm. It could just be me but I prefer class levels to LA. I guess the trick comes in replacing the LA with class levels and leaving the whole balanced. Hmmm.
SeraphimDominion 06-27-06, 02:17 PM	If you prefer class levels to LA, then look at monster classes, which I believe were originally in Savage Species, but have shown up in severl 3.5 books. Basically, it takes a creatures HD + LA and stretches it over a certain number of actual levels. Primarily, it's meant to let you play more powerful creatures in lower-level games, playing up through the monster's abilities gradually. But it would work for this as well.
AngelLemmingThief 06-28-06, 08:23 AM	Thanks for the response SD. I am familiar with monster classes. I was trying to do something similar but trying to avoid having any levels without a HD increase, which, thinking about it probably isn't possible. Ne'er mind :|