Always looking for a nifty build. [Archive] - Wizards Community

Always looking for a nifty build. [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
villianousmorality
09-17-05, 02:37 AM Currently running a game where the pcs are 6th level going on 7th, and some build ideas for henchmen, bbeg, and maybe even the occassional nifty assorted npc would be more than welcomed. Currently I'm running 3.5 core rules with complete arcane, divine, adventurer, warrior, and have access to lords of madness, book of exalted deeds, book of vile darkness, librus mortis, and the fiend folio, and horribly not above using any of these to throw at my pcs. Anything you could come up with for these would be great.

Little backstory, currently they've all been thrust into a world that somewhat mocks their own home worlds. They each grew up in a different version of the same town, and have met a couple helpful npcs, and a couple that aren't going to end up being all that good for them. PCs include a halfling ninja, a halfling spell theif, an elven ranger (ranged), and a dwarven favored one.

I've been toying around with the idea of undead raising cleric and an arcane spellcaster to help buff them a bit. Rather simplistic, but I want something to compare the tactics of a rebel group of mercenaries that they got ambushed by, constant barrage of arrows, raging barbs, sneak attacking halfing fighters... anyway. That's one idea.

I'd like to come across some trollish and other giant type clans.

And always having a nice evil npc is good... I rather like the idea of an illithid specialized in grappling.

Feel free to expand on any of these ideas, offer tips to other things to use, or come up with your own. I'd appreciate any feedback.
X-Codes
09-17-05, 07:15 AM They are terribly light in the melee center.

It's honestly is hard for me to design encounters for such an unbalanced group. 3 agility characters and a spellcaster leads me to believe that generally the Favored Soul is acting as tank?

Anwyay, you need to balance your character's HP and Damage output with what you throw at them. The higher the damage, the more HP the encounters should have. The lower the HP, the less damage the encounters should do. For example, if nobody in the group has over 50 HP at this time, then some Goblin Barbarians or Bugbear Zombies, or whatever else have you might be good encounters.

Seriously, you are the best person to determine what to throw at your party depending on their strengths and weaknesses.
Ditta
09-17-05, 10:49 AM Well since majority of the party seem those agility/dexterous types, I highly suggest no major damage throwers. (My Dm put my true necromancer, My cohort cleric, and 2 wizards up against 2 FREAKING Flesh golems, and immobilized the party Tank. I sense nothing good is gona happen)

Perhaps if you want, you could build a anti-party so called, making NPCs that work on the parties own tactics perhaps, cept they work together better. Goblins(Footballs on legs) are good fodder. A single highly fortified(warforged or undead since you have LM) NPC would probabally work as well, so long he doesn't dish out too much damage.
Baudolino
09-17-05, 11:30 AM Here's an idea I used in the campaign I just ran at level 7 that worked out really well. This is for a scout-type who can have lots of social interfaces leading up to a big battle.

The basic idea is that the Ta'anabo Monastery is a monastery in Limbo that was, for a very long time, the last stronghold of law in that ever-shifting realm. However, the nature of Limbo began to have its effect on the members of the Ta'anabo. Though their will was too strong to turn to chaos, they were twisted and darkened mentally, and physically the chaotic realm left a huge taint on them - their bodies lost all form, becoming nothing more than a grotesque, shifting mass of pseudopods and tentacles. They sent a scout to the PC's realm, to find a place to set up a new monastery, one which had the goal of cleansing Limbo (which in turn could have led to all out war between Limbo and Radiance, which was the plane the PCs were from).

Mechanically, the scout was a Pseudonatural Human Monk 6/Tattooed Monk 1, with the Chameleon tattoo.

Alter Self was a great tool, and the scout met the PCs several times in different guises while approaching his goal, and it took them a long time to see the connection between all of that - and still longer to realize it was the same person each time. Eventually, the social interplay made way to a final battle (spread out over three days, as the monk understood the tactical use of retreating), which was lots of fun. There the monk used his Alter Self tattoo to turn into various creatures, the most fun being, IIRC, the Air Mephit (don't forget the monk is an outsider thanks to the Pseudonatural template). He would fly around the battlefield, grappling casters, administering flurries hear and there, etc.

The ability from the pseudonatural template was also fun to play with. Though the scout had good self-control, when the PCs would make him pretty angry, his form would seem to shimmer or bulge a little, and a look would cross his face like he was trying to suppress something. Then, when they made him really angry he lost all self-control, and his form exploded into this disgusting mass of squirming tentacles, which oddly enough still kept all of his abilities... very intimidating and caused a number of interesting PC reactions.

So there's an idea. The monk wouldn't be too overpowering for your group, who wouldn't stand up to a lot of melee characters, but would pose a unique challenge, and this build offers many different facets of that challenge. I'll give you more ideas later...
Baudolino
09-17-05, 12:01 PM Do the characters have a consistent base of operations, or are they wandering, and probably not running into too many recurring characters?

I designed this character, a 10th level bard, for a campaign where the characters would have lots of recurring NPCs and stay in one place, generally. It was a wandering performer who came to the city, who wowed hundreds with his songs, but always seemed to be hiding something. Somehow people seemed compelled to seek it out, and found out he was the long-lost son of the city's king. The PCs were wary, and went to the king himself, but the king did indeed abandon a son who fit that description.

Of course, the bard was simply a power-hungry fraud. But, he was incredibly charming, and skilled enough to play before the king. And he was rather smart at using his two fourth-level spells, Modify Memory and Dominate Person. He also enjoyed using detect thoughts to pick up bits and pieces of a person's background and get as close to them as possible, and it was because of that ability that he was such a fabulous musician - he played what everyone wanted to hear.

And so the bard gradually seized control of the city, and it was one of the most difficult challenges the PCs ever had, because they couldn't know who was acting under compulsion, who simply believed the bard was a good guy, and so on. And they couldn't figure out why no one noticed the bard's resemblance to the king at first, but once he played before him the likeness was unmistakable (the bard was, of course, a changeling, who used his ability very subtly, making his features resemble the kings more and more so as to eliminate all possible doubt that he was his son).

Anyways, as often occurs in real life, NPCs that the party had good relationships with were automatically trusted, and to have someone there that could shift around alliances and charm or compel everyone around him was quite scary for the PCs. And when they discovered a failsafe way to check if someone was charmed or dominated, they were especially scared to realize how many were acting of their own free will, which was a nice awakening for the party. A lot of fun, all in all.

Really, any challenge is determined by how well the DM plays it. That's why I don't fear optimizers and min/maxers in my games. Something like that is a difficult encounter no matter what the party consists of, and the same can be made true of anything, even seemingly straightforward combat.
villianousmorality
09-17-05, 05:20 PM I appreciate all the feedback. It's been really helpful. I've already drawn up a bardish character that's probably going to be reoccurring. The monk sounds like a lot of fun too. And the antiparty that uses the same or similar tactics, a must.

Let me give a little more background I suppose. It's a fairly new group who have stumbled across most of the helpful people in a town called Davenport, somewhat by accident and somewhat by design. Hurled from their own plane to one in which only two gods are recognized, Bane and Mask, with Mask more or less working for Bane, at least before heavy examination. The favored one (of lathander) is indeed acting as a tank, with his 20 con and heavy mace. The ninja hasn't really said what he is, although he has jumped around like a monkey and turned invisable a couple times, it's usually been far enough from the group that they don't have too much of an idea what he is, other than an odd rogue. The spelltheif has yet to have an oppurtunity to really shine, so I'll probably be looking at some spellcasters. The ranger relocated a dire bear with some absolutely awesome rolls, and managed to mask himself, being the only elf to speak of on the planet.

They've had one big combat, which was with a group of rebels. Not too fond of Bane, these rebels, but it basically went like this. Half a dozen goblin scout 1s, moving unseen through the woods found them and returned to camp, which circled around on a main road the pcs were unaware of, after leaving very noticable tracks in the opposite direction. The pcs, seeing lots of tracks moving north, went south, right toward the orcs, scouts started peppering them with arrows, the ranger bolted to regroup, telling the rest of the group to scatter, and ran right past the barbarians who were raging and charging the group through the woods. The favored one got stuck more or less out in the open and circled by the orcs, who were not to be distracted from their target, while the halflings bolted for the woods. The spelltheif stuck around close enough to come out and sneak attack an orc now and again while the ninja dissappeared and started taking out scouts. Ranger came in and started in on the barbarians as well, trying to distract them from the pcs only healer, who frankly wasn't all that concerned. After taking out several scouts the ninja comes charging an orc, sneak attack, followed by another from the spell theif, followed by the favored one taking his first shot at the orc and dropping him. Walked out of melee, took a couple shots and cast heal moderate wounds I believe, while the ranger and halflings took out another orc. At this point, the leader of the group, who'd been watching from just far enough away to not get spotted, comes up without a weapon and calls off the attack, realizing that taking these guys out to get their stuff might involve heavy losses, directed them toward town and told them not to follow him or next time he'd kill them.

So boiling their tactics down to the most simple way of putting it, I suppose it'd be have the healer start off as the melee guy, switch out with the ranger when he needs healed, and have the halflings clear out any foes striking from a distance and move in to help out the melee guy.

I'm sure there's better tactics, but it really worked out fairly well for them... the first time. Spellcasters could prove a bit more of a problem, but they do have the spelltheif at the least. I believe he may have cast mage armor or some such on the favored one while he was in melee, because it was rather hard to hit him for a bit. Clerics controling undead could be a real problem, even just simple zombies really, assuming there's a good amount. A few extra buffing spells for the undead, and the pcs are down to two characters effective against undead, and two that will probably be gunning for the cleric. I'm thinking this is probably going to come about fairly soon, so an evil cleric with tough undead, probably a good amount of libris mortis type things, is probably going to be a must.

They've recieved all the warnings they're going to get about being careful of speaking where they're from/what they are/who they serve, so even a little slip in town could prove to get them the enimity of generally good townsfolk forced to follow bane. Really some help with some spellcaster builds would be great.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
villianousmorality 09-17-05, 02:37 AM	Currently running a game where the pcs are 6th level going on 7th, and some build ideas for henchmen, bbeg, and maybe even the occassional nifty assorted npc would be more than welcomed. Currently I'm running 3.5 core rules with complete arcane, divine, adventurer, warrior, and have access to lords of madness, book of exalted deeds, book of vile darkness, librus mortis, and the fiend folio, and horribly not above using any of these to throw at my pcs. Anything you could come up with for these would be great. Little backstory, currently they've all been thrust into a world that somewhat mocks their own home worlds. They each grew up in a different version of the same town, and have met a couple helpful npcs, and a couple that aren't going to end up being all that good for them. PCs include a halfling ninja, a halfling spell theif, an elven ranger (ranged), and a dwarven favored one. I've been toying around with the idea of undead raising cleric and an arcane spellcaster to help buff them a bit. Rather simplistic, but I want something to compare the tactics of a rebel group of mercenaries that they got ambushed by, constant barrage of arrows, raging barbs, sneak attacking halfing fighters... anyway. That's one idea. I'd like to come across some trollish and other giant type clans. And always having a nice evil npc is good... I rather like the idea of an illithid specialized in grappling. Feel free to expand on any of these ideas, offer tips to other things to use, or come up with your own. I'd appreciate any feedback.
X-Codes 09-17-05, 07:15 AM	They are terribly light in the melee center. It's honestly is hard for me to design encounters for such an unbalanced group. 3 agility characters and a spellcaster leads me to believe that generally the Favored Soul is acting as tank? Anwyay, you need to balance your character's HP and Damage output with what you throw at them. The higher the damage, the more HP the encounters should have. The lower the HP, the less damage the encounters should do. For example, if nobody in the group has over 50 HP at this time, then some Goblin Barbarians or Bugbear Zombies, or whatever else have you might be good encounters. Seriously, you are the best person to determine what to throw at your party depending on their strengths and weaknesses.
Ditta 09-17-05, 10:49 AM	Well since majority of the party seem those agility/dexterous types, I highly suggest no major damage throwers. (My Dm put my true necromancer, My cohort cleric, and 2 wizards up against 2 FREAKING Flesh golems, and immobilized the party Tank. I sense nothing good is gona happen) Perhaps if you want, you could build a anti-party so called, making NPCs that work on the parties own tactics perhaps, cept they work together better. Goblins(Footballs on legs) are good fodder. A single highly fortified(warforged or undead since you have LM) NPC would probabally work as well, so long he doesn't dish out too much damage.
Baudolino 09-17-05, 11:30 AM	Here's an idea I used in the campaign I just ran at level 7 that worked out really well. This is for a scout-type who can have lots of social interfaces leading up to a big battle. The basic idea is that the Ta'anabo Monastery is a monastery in Limbo that was, for a very long time, the last stronghold of law in that ever-shifting realm. However, the nature of Limbo began to have its effect on the members of the Ta'anabo. Though their will was too strong to turn to chaos, they were twisted and darkened mentally, and physically the chaotic realm left a huge taint on them - their bodies lost all form, becoming nothing more than a grotesque, shifting mass of pseudopods and tentacles. They sent a scout to the PC's realm, to find a place to set up a new monastery, one which had the goal of cleansing Limbo (which in turn could have led to all out war between Limbo and Radiance, which was the plane the PCs were from). Mechanically, the scout was a Pseudonatural Human Monk 6/Tattooed Monk 1, with the Chameleon tattoo. Alter Self was a great tool, and the scout met the PCs several times in different guises while approaching his goal, and it took them a long time to see the connection between all of that - and still longer to realize it was the same person each time. Eventually, the social interplay made way to a final battle (spread out over three days, as the monk understood the tactical use of retreating), which was lots of fun. There the monk used his Alter Self tattoo to turn into various creatures, the most fun being, IIRC, the Air Mephit (don't forget the monk is an outsider thanks to the Pseudonatural template). He would fly around the battlefield, grappling casters, administering flurries hear and there, etc. The ability from the pseudonatural template was also fun to play with. Though the scout had good self-control, when the PCs would make him pretty angry, his form would seem to shimmer or bulge a little, and a look would cross his face like he was trying to suppress something. Then, when they made him really angry he lost all self-control, and his form exploded into this disgusting mass of squirming tentacles, which oddly enough still kept all of his abilities... very intimidating and caused a number of interesting PC reactions. So there's an idea. The monk wouldn't be too overpowering for your group, who wouldn't stand up to a lot of melee characters, but would pose a unique challenge, and this build offers many different facets of that challenge. I'll give you more ideas later...
Baudolino 09-17-05, 12:01 PM	Do the characters have a consistent base of operations, or are they wandering, and probably not running into too many recurring characters? I designed this character, a 10th level bard, for a campaign where the characters would have lots of recurring NPCs and stay in one place, generally. It was a wandering performer who came to the city, who wowed hundreds with his songs, but always seemed to be hiding something. Somehow people seemed compelled to seek it out, and found out he was the long-lost son of the city's king. The PCs were wary, and went to the king himself, but the king did indeed abandon a son who fit that description. Of course, the bard was simply a power-hungry fraud. But, he was incredibly charming, and skilled enough to play before the king. And he was rather smart at using his two fourth-level spells, Modify Memory and Dominate Person. He also enjoyed using detect thoughts to pick up bits and pieces of a person's background and get as close to them as possible, and it was because of that ability that he was such a fabulous musician - he played what everyone wanted to hear. And so the bard gradually seized control of the city, and it was one of the most difficult challenges the PCs ever had, because they couldn't know who was acting under compulsion, who simply believed the bard was a good guy, and so on. And they couldn't figure out why no one noticed the bard's resemblance to the king at first, but once he played before him the likeness was unmistakable (the bard was, of course, a changeling, who used his ability very subtly, making his features resemble the kings more and more so as to eliminate all possible doubt that he was his son). Anyways, as often occurs in real life, NPCs that the party had good relationships with were automatically trusted, and to have someone there that could shift around alliances and charm or compel everyone around him was quite scary for the PCs. And when they discovered a failsafe way to check if someone was charmed or dominated, they were especially scared to realize how many were acting of their own free will, which was a nice awakening for the party. A lot of fun, all in all. Really, any challenge is determined by how well the DM plays it. That's why I don't fear optimizers and min/maxers in my games. Something like that is a difficult encounter no matter what the party consists of, and the same can be made true of anything, even seemingly straightforward combat.
villianousmorality 09-17-05, 05:20 PM	I appreciate all the feedback. It's been really helpful. I've already drawn up a bardish character that's probably going to be reoccurring. The monk sounds like a lot of fun too. And the antiparty that uses the same or similar tactics, a must. Let me give a little more background I suppose. It's a fairly new group who have stumbled across most of the helpful people in a town called Davenport, somewhat by accident and somewhat by design. Hurled from their own plane to one in which only two gods are recognized, Bane and Mask, with Mask more or less working for Bane, at least before heavy examination. The favored one (of lathander) is indeed acting as a tank, with his 20 con and heavy mace. The ninja hasn't really said what he is, although he has jumped around like a monkey and turned invisable a couple times, it's usually been far enough from the group that they don't have too much of an idea what he is, other than an odd rogue. The spelltheif has yet to have an oppurtunity to really shine, so I'll probably be looking at some spellcasters. The ranger relocated a dire bear with some absolutely awesome rolls, and managed to mask himself, being the only elf to speak of on the planet. They've had one big combat, which was with a group of rebels. Not too fond of Bane, these rebels, but it basically went like this. Half a dozen goblin scout 1s, moving unseen through the woods found them and returned to camp, which circled around on a main road the pcs were unaware of, after leaving very noticable tracks in the opposite direction. The pcs, seeing lots of tracks moving north, went south, right toward the orcs, scouts started peppering them with arrows, the ranger bolted to regroup, telling the rest of the group to scatter, and ran right past the barbarians who were raging and charging the group through the woods. The favored one got stuck more or less out in the open and circled by the orcs, who were not to be distracted from their target, while the halflings bolted for the woods. The spelltheif stuck around close enough to come out and sneak attack an orc now and again while the ninja dissappeared and started taking out scouts. Ranger came in and started in on the barbarians as well, trying to distract them from the pcs only healer, who frankly wasn't all that concerned. After taking out several scouts the ninja comes charging an orc, sneak attack, followed by another from the spell theif, followed by the favored one taking his first shot at the orc and dropping him. Walked out of melee, took a couple shots and cast heal moderate wounds I believe, while the ranger and halflings took out another orc. At this point, the leader of the group, who'd been watching from just far enough away to not get spotted, comes up without a weapon and calls off the attack, realizing that taking these guys out to get their stuff might involve heavy losses, directed them toward town and told them not to follow him or next time he'd kill them. So boiling their tactics down to the most simple way of putting it, I suppose it'd be have the healer start off as the melee guy, switch out with the ranger when he needs healed, and have the halflings clear out any foes striking from a distance and move in to help out the melee guy. I'm sure there's better tactics, but it really worked out fairly well for them... the first time. Spellcasters could prove a bit more of a problem, but they do have the spelltheif at the least. I believe he may have cast mage armor or some such on the favored one while he was in melee, because it was rather hard to hit him for a bit. Clerics controling undead could be a real problem, even just simple zombies really, assuming there's a good amount. A few extra buffing spells for the undead, and the pcs are down to two characters effective against undead, and two that will probably be gunning for the cleric. I'm thinking this is probably going to come about fairly soon, so an evil cleric with tough undead, probably a good amount of libris mortis type things, is probably going to be a must. They've recieved all the warnings they're going to get about being careful of speaking where they're from/what they are/who they serve, so even a little slip in town could prove to get them the enimity of generally good townsfolk forced to follow bane. Really some help with some spellcaster builds would be great.