Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Gilbetron 06-08-04, 04:56 PM	Ok, here is a question, an assignment for you crazy, crazy optimizers! 12th level character build, how do you go about optimizing so that you have a great chance of hitting. You can sacrifice a lot of things, particularly multi-attacks and damage, but just the ability to have a really high chance of hitting what you aim for. I'm thinking melee, here, but a bonus for archer builds to. 12th level should have +12 BAB, plus, say, a 20 Strength for +17, add a +5 weapon for +22, Weapon Focus +1 for +23BAB. What else?
Gol 06-08-04, 05:28 PM	There's a nice level 1 spell called True Strike that gets you +20 to attack. Ranger spell called Hunter's Mercy that give you auto-hit and an auto-threat (very broken, I've heard that it's common to house-rule the spell to level 4).
RodIshiCi 06-08-04, 10:14 PM	If you're into 3.5, fighters get Superior Weapon Focus at 8th level for an extra +1 to hit.
TaisharMalkier 06-08-04, 11:19 PM	Zug Zug. Greater Rage, for another +3 to hit (+6 Str). You'd prolly get +4 Str via a spell or item. Which would net a 28, except I think +5 is unreasonable at this level (50k...). There is a number of other ways to get bonuses to hit - potions, scrolls, etc. A level 12 cleric with war domain would have the best to hit - with spells. +11 32 Str (+6 Power, +8 Might, +2 Death Knell) +12 BAB (Power) +1 WFocus +3 GMW or an actual weapon +4 Divine Favor +1 Bless (wee...) -1 Size And you're at a +31. Heroism, Greater would give 3 more but you'd need to find an arcane caster. +1 for haste, but ditto. Obviously a bunch of other minor ones. Cheers
amalcon 06-08-04, 11:33 PM	That bow of spell trigger true strike. Manyshot. You can get the spell trigger with one level of sorcerer/wizard, or use magic device.
Part-Human2 06-09-04, 03:26 AM	A small archer might have +12 BAB +9 from Dex (22 DEX +6 DEX Item) +5 Bow +1 Weapon Focus +1 Superior Weapon Focus +2 from Greater Bracers of Archery +1 Size (small race) +31 Total with +1 Point Blank Shot w/in 30 ft. [EDIT] A Jermlaine (MMII) is LA +0, Tiny and had +6 DEX bonus. As an archer he'd have +34 to his attack rolls.
Part-Human2 06-09-04, 03:45 AM	A Jermlaine Kensai (Dragon Magazine #310 Fighter Variant) 12 would have +12 BAB +2 Kensai Bonus +9 from 28 Dex (Weapon Finesse) +1 Weapon Focus +1 Superior Weapon Focus +2 Size (Tiny) +5 Magic Weapon That's only +32 Flank +2, be Invisible +2, attack from higher ground +1 and Charge +2. BTW: Giant Bane (Climb Aboard) in Complete Warrior that lets you climb aboard enemies and attack them.
Gol 06-09-04, 08:09 AM	A 12th level Ranger can cast Hunter's Mercy (if you go by the book and your DM doesn't house rule it). Auto hit. No rolling necessary. 1 spell. done. You auto-threaten, too. The only roll is to confirm it.
ksbsnowowl 06-09-04, 08:44 AM	Originally posted by Gol A 12th level Ranger can cast Hunter's Mercy (if you go by the book and your DM doesn't house rule it). Unless it was changed somewhere (I don't keep up on all 3.5 updates) a 4th level ranger could cast it. Heck, you could simply throw in one level of Ranger and you can cast it from a wand. But yes, a 12th level ranger would have several 'free' uses of it each day due to having several spell slots. Depending on the build, a 10th level archer can do damage that averages over 150 damage with a single attack, and it'll always hit.
Neonsamurai 06-09-04, 09:16 AM	A rogue ranged sneak attacker with 5 levels of master thrower can be quite devastating. 5th level of master thrower gives you the ability to sacrifice your damage bonus to damage and perform your thrown weapon attacks as ranged touch attacks! Yum Yum Yum. ;)
KashGarinn 06-09-04, 09:36 AM	um, the wording of the hunters' mercy spell is horrible, I know.. But it's not meant to be auto-hit AND auto-crit.. It's only supposed to be auto-crit IF you hit.. meaning you need to make an attack-roll, and if you hit, then you auto-crit. K.
Lakom 06-09-04, 10:38 AM	I don't think anybody mentioned it yet, but tripping opponents it's also a good way of hitting most enemies since you need only a touch attackt to hit. Of course you also need to win an opposite tripping check to deal damage... You can also use PrC abilities of Shiba etc who give you the ability modifiers to hit.
ksbsnowowl 06-09-04, 12:35 PM	Originally posted by KashGarinn um, the wording of the hunters' mercy spell is horrible, I know.. But it's not meant to be auto-hit AND auto-crit.. It's only supposed to be auto-crit IF you hit.. meaning you need to make an attack-roll, and if you hit, then you auto-crit. K. No, it's not an auto-crit. What the spell does is make you Auto-hit and Auto-threaten. Here is the sentence in question:Your next attack with the bow (if it is made before the end of the next round) hits and automatically threatens a critical hit.Temporarily removing the paranthetical, so as to not divert your attention from the sentence, we have a very clear statement:Your next attack with the bow hits and automatically threatens a critical hit.The following line is also very clear.If you don't hit in the round following the casting then the spell effect is wasted.The effect expires after one round, so it's wasted if anything keeps you from hitting the target. What could keep you from hitting the target? Several things; you could be grappled, the target could move out of your line of sight, or it could move out of range. So, you can plainly see that HM does clearly cause your next bow attack to hit automatically, and it makes that hit automatically threaten a critical.
Black Sheep 06-13-04, 03:22 PM	Halfling Thrown Weapons Expert: PsiWar 12. Too lazy too look for more. Someone else can probably extend on this. Master Thrower might be great for this, but I do not have the book with me. But you get the ability to do touch attacks, and with a good AB this usually translates into 'always hit'. No equipment figured in. Using Shuriken, since they count as projectiles for spells and powers like Metaphysical Weapon. Small +1 Compression (Diminutive) +2 Halfling +1 DEX 28 (18 + 2 (Halfling) + 4 (Compression) + 4 (Animal Affinity)) +9 BAB +9 Precognition, Offensive +4 Metaphysical Weapon +3 Weapon Focus +1 Point Blank Shot +1 Total: 31 Note that I used the values given by Compression. A 'real' diminutive creature would have a size modifier of 4.
monkman33 06-13-04, 04:25 PM	Originally posted by ksbsnowowl Unless it was changed somewhere (I don't keep up on all 3.5 updates) a 4th level ranger could cast it. Heck, you could simply throw in one level of Ranger and you can cast it from a wand. But yes, a 12th level ranger would have several 'free' uses of it each day due to having several spell slots. Depending on the build, a 10th level archer can do damage that averages over 150 damage with a single attack, and it'll always hit. Just curious, where are some of these builds?
Black Sheep 06-13-04, 05:09 PM	Originally posted by monkman33 Just curious, where are some of these builds? Um, look at ksbsnowowl's signature?
monkman33 06-13-04, 05:32 PM	I guess I was referring to the 150 pts of average damage at 10th level and always hitting. I am still new to this optimization stuff.
James McMurray 06-13-04, 06:51 PM	Hunter's Mercy was reprinted in a much more palatable version in Ghostwalk. It now causes the first hit you make in the following round to threaten a critical no matter what the die roll was. You still need to hit, and you still need to confirm the crit. For hit chances I like the halfling Master Thrower with Reduce Person. One level of cleric can give access to wands and also grant turn attempts for Divine Might to enhance damage. Against any foe size small or larger you'll be making touch attacks. With thrown weapons you'll have +5 to hit over a human (+2 size, +2 dex, and +1 racial).
Ryunnosuke 06-14-04, 01:40 AM	Cleric 11/Sorcerer 1 Equipment +5 Weapon Bead of Karma Bracers of Archery +6 Gloves of Dexterity Spells Divine Power Divine Favor True Strike Greater Magic Weapon To Hit +12 BAB (Divine Power) +5 (Divine Favor) +20 True Strike +5 Ranged Magic Weapon +1 Weapon Focus +1 Point Blank Shot +2 Bracers of Archery +8 (18 DEX, +2 Halfling, +6 Gloves of Dex) +1 Halfling Racial Total to Hit: +55
Black Sheep 06-14-04, 03:53 AM	Originally posted by Ryunnosuke +2 Bracers of Archery +1 Halfling Racial Halfling racial only works with thrown weapons or with slings, Bracers of Archery only with bows.
ksbsnowowl 06-14-04, 02:00 PM	Originally posted by monkman33 I guess I was referring to the 150 pts of average damage at 10th level and always hitting. I am still new to this optimization stuff. Can't tell if you are still trying to figure out where the builds are; if so, just click the link in my sig that says 'KSB Snow Owl's archer build thread'. Originally posted by James McMurray Hunter's Mercy was reprinted in a much more palatable version in Ghostwalk.Haven't seen it. If they went ahead and changed the spell (and in a 3.5 product, I assume) I don't see why they wouldn't have updated it in the Player's Guide to Faerun. In FR it would function as listed in MoF, I would assume (but we all know what happens when you make an assumption). Either way, for a 3.0 game, it'll still function as listed in MoF.
Ryunnosuke 06-14-04, 04:01 PM	Originally posted by Black Sheep Halfling racial only works with thrown weapons or with slings, Bracers of Archery only with bows. Yeah, I know. That's why it's only a +1 and not a +2. I'm refering to the Halfling Racial bonus for small size.
catharz 06-14-04, 04:16 PM	Originally posted by James McMurray Hunter's Mercy was reprinted in a much more palatable version in Ghostwalk. It now causes the first hit you make in the following round to threaten a critical no matter what the die roll was. You still need to hit, and you still need to confirm the crit. Thats WotC for ya :rofl:
toftof 06-14-04, 04:31 PM	don't know if this is useful but the fleshring of scorn in BoVD allow an evil outsider to always confirm a crit against a non outsider...seems interesting for a mortal hunter
Whakapapa 06-14-04, 04:33 PM	Ranger 7(or anything else that fits your concept, you just need concentration 8 along with some other skills)/Pyrokineticist 5 - Fire ranged touch attacks with fire arrows each round (5d6 each round, you could also stop at lvl 3, but then you would only do 3d6, on lvl 10 pyro, its 10d6 each round)... thats another way to do it
Bort333 06-14-04, 05:45 PM	I don't have the DMG with me(not sure on the costs), but a quicken true strike at will item isn't that expensive.
pokemaniacbill 06-14-04, 05:53 PM	Only if you're dealing with the most idiotic DM I've ever seen in my entire life...
newblar32 06-14-04, 06:26 PM	I don't have the DMG with me(not sure on the costs), but a quicken true strike at will item isn't that expensive. That item, costs around 10 million gold. It's been calculated out before using the DMG.
Caelic 06-14-04, 10:40 PM	An item of True Strike, usable at will, is by definition an epic item, and therefore costs quite a bit of cash--assuming that an epic-level spellcaster can be found to make it. Hunter's Mercy, as has been pointed out, was incredibly badly written. It has since been corrected. There are those who will say, "Yes, but it's never been officially errataed!" That is true, and there are those who will always cling to the most powerful interpretation of a spell possible as long as there's any way to do so. To me, that's not min/maxing.