Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Warlock33 12-06-05, 04:47 PM	From the SRD spell filter: :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: Vampiric Touch Necromancy Level: Sor/Wiz 3 Components: V, S Casting Time: 1 standard action Range: Touch Target: Living creature touched Duration: Instantaneous/1 hour; see text Saving Throw: None Spell Resistance: Yes You must succeed on a melee touch attack. Your touch deals 1d6 points of damage per two caster levels (maximum 10d6). You gain temporary hit points equal to the damage you deal. However, you can’t gain more than the subject’s current hit points +10, which is enough to kill the subject. The temporary hit points disappear 1 hour later. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ::: Now, my DM lets me use the "staff familiar" option from one of the new dragons to apply to my sword. So I can deliver a touch spell with my sword in addition to the weapon damage. Could I gain as much temp. HP as I deal in damage with the sword?
Korg al Tarr 12-06-05, 04:50 PM	Yes.
Arismir 12-06-05, 05:08 PM	Could I gain as much temp. HP as I deal in damage with the sword? I don't know if you mean this, but I would rule that you can only gain as HP as the spell deals. You would not gain HP for the damage of the sword. This is simply RAI and not RAW, but it seems like "the damage you deal" is meant to describe the damage of the spell.
PhaedrusXY 12-06-05, 05:20 PM	No. The damage dealt by the spell is still separate from the damage dealt by the sword. For instance, if you attacked a creature with damage reduction, that damage reduction would apply to the damage from the sword, but would not lessen damage dealt by the spell. They are totally separate things. Hence you only gain temporary hit points from the damage dealt by the spell.
Korg al Tarr 12-06-05, 05:44 PM	No. The damage dealt by the spell is still separate from the damage dealt by the sword. For instance, if you attacked a creature with damage reduction, that damage reduction would apply to the damage from the sword, but would not lessen damage dealt by the spell. They are totally separate things. Hence you only gain temporary hit points from the damage dealt by the spell. Bold doesn`t matter. Underline->This is RAI not RAW. From the spell description: You gain temporary hit points equal to the damage you deal.
Warlock33 12-06-05, 07:09 PM	Yes, you get temp hp by the damage you deal. "You must succeed on a melee touch attack. Your touch deals 1d6 points of damage per two caster levels (maximum 10d6). You gain temporary hit points equal to the damage you deal." Casting a touch spell into the sword changes the touch attack into a sword attack, which does damage all on it's own. The "Touch" now does d8+STR+magic instead of d6/2 caster levels; the actual touching deals new damage, not d6s. By the RAW, that seems to work to me, can anyone set me a precedent or something on why this would not work?
PhaedrusXY 12-06-05, 07:19 PM	The line "damage you deal" is clearly referring to damage dealt by the spell. What other damage could it possibly be referring to? We're talking about a line in a spell description, not a line in the combat section of the SRD. Anything else is a load of crap. Please don't preach at me about RAW vs. RAI. This has nothing to do with that. It has to do with being able to read a line of English within the correct context. The context here is damage dealt by a spell. The spell wasn't designed to be combined with some other kind of attack, and so the designers didn't write it with that in mind. Casting a touch spell into the sword changes the touch attack into a sword attack, which does damage all on it's own. The "Touch" now does d8+STR+magic instead of d6/2 caster levels; the actual touching deals new damage, not d6s. It doesn't change it into a different kind of damage. It is just an alternate method of delivering the spell. It is still damage dealt by a spell, and it is totally separate from the damage of the sword.
Warlock33 12-06-05, 07:43 PM	Char Op is all about RAW, and I don't believe I ever even mentioned RAI. Half the stuff in here my DM would never allow, and with good reason, and I would never use it. I am just talking about, as written, would what I said work. Now chill out.
Seeker of Truth 12-06-05, 07:55 PM	The only way you would let the sword damage count is to read the rule in a non-sensical way. you read "You gain temporary hit points equal to the damage you deal" out of context and imagine it applies to any damage you deal. Whether it's from Vampiric Touch, a melee attack, or a fireball. You don't need to be able to deliver the touch attack with a weapon, after all, we're removing all context from that sentence and just gaining temporary HPs for damage dealt.
MechaboyDos 12-06-05, 08:05 PM	This is basically the same thing as using a Spell Storing weapon or the Spellsword's Channel Spell Ability. Look at it this way; if I were to put a Scorching Ray into my Greatsword, would I be doing 14d6 fire damage or would I be doing 2d6 sword damage and 12d6 fire damage? Same thing with Vampiric Touch. They're two separate effects taking place simultaneously, they don't combine into one effect.
Warlock33 12-06-05, 08:09 PM	The way the sword familiar works is that it casts the spell for you, just like a normal familiar casting vampiric touch would have to touch the enemy, and do d6/2 levels damage. It's not the same as a spell storing weapon, or a channel. It can only be touch spells but whatever, it doesn't matter. it's just the unique combination of the swords "touch attack" being the sword attack itself is what i'm talking about.
MechaboyDos 12-06-05, 08:42 PM	That's almost exactly the same as Channel or Spell Storing. The weapon holds the spell, and the spell takes effect when the weapon strikes. The Sword Familiar is a weapon, and it does weapon damage in addition to Vampiric Touch damage. Slicing something is not the same thing as casting Vampiric Touch on it. Two separate effects, with two separate damages.