AMF with larger than medium casters [Archive] - Wizards Community

AMF with larger than medium casters [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Squirrelloid
03-22-05, 07:42 PM Relevant SRD text:

Antimagic Field
Abjuration

Level: Clr 8, Magic 6, Protection 6, Sor/Wiz 6

Components: V, S, M/DF

Casting Time: 1 standard action

Range: 10 ft.

Area: 10-ft.-radius emanation, centered on you

Duration: 10 min./level (D)

Saving Throw: None

Spell Resistance: See text

An invisible barrier surrounds you and moves with you. The space within this barrier is impervious to most magical effects, including spells, spell-like abilities, and supernatural abilities. Likewise, it prevents the functioning of any magic items or spells within its confines.

An antimagic field suppresses any spell or magical effect used within, brought into, or cast into the area, but does not dispel it. Time spent within an antimagic field counts against the suppressed spell’s duration.

Summoned creatures of any type and incorporeal undead wink out if they enter an antimagic field. They reappear in the same spot once the field goes away. Time spent winked out counts normally against the duration of the conjuration that is maintaining the creature. If you cast antimagic field in an area occupied by a summoned creature that has spell resistance, you must make a caster level check (1d20 + caster level) against the creature’s spell resistance to make it wink out. (The effects of instantaneous conjurations are not affected by an antimagic field because the conjuration itself is no longer in effect, only its result.)

A normal creature can enter the area, as can normal missiles. Furthermore, while a magic sword does not function magically within the area, it is still a sword (and a masterwork sword at that). The spell has no effect on golems and other constructs that are imbued with magic during their creation process and are thereafter self-supporting (unless they have been summoned, in which case they are treated like any other summoned creatures). Elementals, corporeal undead, and outsiders are likewise unaffected unless summoned. These creatures’ spell-like or supernatural abilities, however, may be temporarily nullified by the field. Dispel magic does not remove the field.

Two or more antimagic fields sharing any of the same space have no effect on each other. Certain spells, such as wall of force, prismatic sphere, and prismatic wall, remain unaffected by antimagic field (see the individual spell descriptions). Artifacts and deities are unaffected by mortal magic such as this.

Should a creature be larger than the area enclosed by the barrier, any part of it that lies outside the barrier is unaffected by the field.

Arcane Material Component: A pinch of powdered iron or iron filings.

So, lets say you occupy more than one square. What area does AMF effect? It says it has a range 10'. That seems to imply that it effects everything within 10' of *you*. Its an emanation from you, which should mean emanate equally from you in all directions. Thus, a colossal creature casting AMF should have an AMF around it out to 10' from it in all directions.

However, it also says it has 10' radius, probably because WotC was assuming 5'x5' caster square occupation when they wrote it. Now, if we consider the caster a point (yes, i know this point is more than a 5x5 square in cases of large and larger creatures), this is equivalent to the above interpretation. Alternatively, you could consider the radius as being measured from the edge of the creature out. It never does say its a sphere, it just says its a 10' radius.

One could interpret that to mean you only get a 10' rad sphere, but that conflicts with the 10' range and the emanation from you text. (Emanations according to RAW spread out from a source evenly in all directions. If you are the source, it must spread out from you evenly in all directions. Spells which have a point source, like fireball, specify that).

So, how should AMF work according to the RAW? How do you think it should work according to the RAI? These are two separate issues, though i care more about the RAW, so focus on that.
sma
03-22-05, 08:32 PM While I do agree with the notion that the field should emanate from the caster, making it a non-weird/useless choice for bigger creatures, the use of radius and the standard emanation resolution system give good arguments to the opposite interpretation.

But since you probably have two to three actions per round anyway, and AMF blocks LoE, simply ready one to interpose the AMF between you and any caster, and only attack/cast once at him.

Or simply fight the way the educated wizard does: Teleport or Earthglide away, Contact other plane via familiar to verify his whereabouts and chain summon the horde of extraplanars of your choice on his sorry ass.

Greetings,
Sma
djinni
03-22-05, 09:11 PM Or simply fight the way the educated wizard does: Teleport or Earthglide away, Contact other plane via familiar to verify his whereabouts and chain summon the horde of extraplanars of your choice on his <edited>

that's assuming he's not an educated wizard the action you spent teleporting away he spent finding you, and the action you spent to find him he spent making sure you couldn't, then while you are confused he's just asked all his extraplanar buddies to give you a stern talking to...

if the caster is larger than medium and the players aren't going to abuse it then I'd let it encompass the area the wizard takes up plus the 5' squares surround them.
sma
03-22-05, 10:53 PM that's assuming he's not an educated wizard the action you spent teleporting away he spent finding you, and the action you spent to find him he spent making sure you couldn't, then while you are confused he's just asked all his extraplanar buddies to give you a stern talking to...

If im not imagining things this discxussion came out of a thread conerning some melee guy attacking, hence my remark. But yeah, caster wars tend to go to the one who starts them.
Tiax returns
03-23-05, 12:15 AM From the PHB:

Aiming a Spell
Area:
Regardless of the shape of an area, you select the point from which the spell originates... the point of origin is always a grid intersection... An emanation functions like a burst spell, except that it continues to radiate from the point of origin....

Large sections cut out, but there you have it, all spelt out in plain english on page 175 of the PHB. Emanation spells 'emanate' from a grid intersection (in the case of Anti-Magic Field, one inside your 'space'), not from a creature.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Squirrelloid 03-22-05, 07:42 PM	Relevant SRD text: Antimagic Field Abjuration Level: Clr 8, Magic 6, Protection 6, Sor/Wiz 6 Components: V, S, M/DF Casting Time: 1 standard action Range: 10 ft. Area: 10-ft.-radius emanation, centered on you Duration: 10 min./level (D) Saving Throw: None Spell Resistance: See text An invisible barrier surrounds you and moves with you. The space within this barrier is impervious to most magical effects, including spells, spell-like abilities, and supernatural abilities. Likewise, it prevents the functioning of any magic items or spells within its confines. An antimagic field suppresses any spell or magical effect used within, brought into, or cast into the area, but does not dispel it. Time spent within an antimagic field counts against the suppressed spell’s duration. Summoned creatures of any type and incorporeal undead wink out if they enter an antimagic field. They reappear in the same spot once the field goes away. Time spent winked out counts normally against the duration of the conjuration that is maintaining the creature. If you cast antimagic field in an area occupied by a summoned creature that has spell resistance, you must make a caster level check (1d20 + caster level) against the creature’s spell resistance to make it wink out. (The effects of instantaneous conjurations are not affected by an antimagic field because the conjuration itself is no longer in effect, only its result.) A normal creature can enter the area, as can normal missiles. Furthermore, while a magic sword does not function magically within the area, it is still a sword (and a masterwork sword at that). The spell has no effect on golems and other constructs that are imbued with magic during their creation process and are thereafter self-supporting (unless they have been summoned, in which case they are treated like any other summoned creatures). Elementals, corporeal undead, and outsiders are likewise unaffected unless summoned. These creatures’ spell-like or supernatural abilities, however, may be temporarily nullified by the field. Dispel magic does not remove the field. Two or more antimagic fields sharing any of the same space have no effect on each other. Certain spells, such as wall of force, prismatic sphere, and prismatic wall, remain unaffected by antimagic field (see the individual spell descriptions). Artifacts and deities are unaffected by mortal magic such as this. Should a creature be larger than the area enclosed by the barrier, any part of it that lies outside the barrier is unaffected by the field. Arcane Material Component: A pinch of powdered iron or iron filings. So, lets say you occupy more than one square. What area does AMF effect? It says it has a range 10'. That seems to imply that it effects everything within 10' of you. Its an emanation from you, which should mean emanate equally from you in all directions. Thus, a colossal creature casting AMF should have an AMF around it out to 10' from it in all directions. However, it also says it has 10' radius, probably because WotC was assuming 5'x5' caster square occupation when they wrote it. Now, if we consider the caster a point (yes, i know this point is more than a 5x5 square in cases of large and larger creatures), this is equivalent to the above interpretation. Alternatively, you could consider the radius as being measured from the edge of the creature out. It never does say its a sphere, it just says its a 10' radius. One could interpret that to mean you only get a 10' rad sphere, but that conflicts with the 10' range and the emanation from you text. (Emanations according to RAW spread out from a source evenly in all directions. If you are the source, it must spread out from you evenly in all directions. Spells which have a point source, like fireball, specify that). So, how should AMF work according to the RAW? How do you think it should work according to the RAI? These are two separate issues, though i care more about the RAW, so focus on that.
sma 03-22-05, 08:32 PM	While I do agree with the notion that the field should emanate from the caster, making it a non-weird/useless choice for bigger creatures, the use of radius and the standard emanation resolution system give good arguments to the opposite interpretation. But since you probably have two to three actions per round anyway, and AMF blocks LoE, simply ready one to interpose the AMF between you and any caster, and only attack/cast once at him. Or simply fight the way the educated wizard does: Teleport or Earthglide away, Contact other plane via familiar to verify his whereabouts and chain summon the horde of extraplanars of your choice on his sorry ass. Greetings, Sma
djinni 03-22-05, 09:11 PM	Or simply fight the way the educated wizard does: Teleport or Earthglide away, Contact other plane via familiar to verify his whereabouts and chain summon the horde of extraplanars of your choice on his <edited> that's assuming he's not an educated wizard the action you spent teleporting away he spent finding you, and the action you spent to find him he spent making sure you couldn't, then while you are confused he's just asked all his extraplanar buddies to give you a stern talking to... if the caster is larger than medium and the players aren't going to abuse it then I'd let it encompass the area the wizard takes up plus the 5' squares surround them.
sma 03-22-05, 10:53 PM	that's assuming he's not an educated wizard the action you spent teleporting away he spent finding you, and the action you spent to find him he spent making sure you couldn't, then while you are confused he's just asked all his extraplanar buddies to give you a stern talking to... If im not imagining things this discxussion came out of a thread conerning some melee guy attacking, hence my remark. But yeah, caster wars tend to go to the one who starts them.
Tiax returns 03-23-05, 12:15 AM	From the PHB: Aiming a Spell Area: Regardless of the shape of an area, you select the point from which the spell originates... the point of origin is always a grid intersection... An emanation functions like a burst spell, except that it continues to radiate from the point of origin.... Large sections cut out, but there you have it, all spelt out in plain english on page 175 of the PHB. Emanation spells 'emanate' from a grid intersection (in the case of Anti-Magic Field, one inside your 'space'), not from a creature.