Post/Author/DateTime	Post
BarbeChenue 01-23-06, 02:43 PM	I've seen a lot of powerful builds on these boards as of late, most of them being concentrated on individual power. Sure we see quite a few threads about party synergy, but I'd like the examine the "philosophical" altruistic character, rather than the practical version. Everyone is aware of what is a "Good-Aligned Character", and I won't be telling anyone how to play them, but what's an altruistic character? The dictionary defines altruism as an "Unselfish concern for the welfare of others; selflessness". I'd like to build such a character. Books: All WotC books. No Dragon. The Book of Exalted Deeds is a very good start, and I'd like to take several of the Vows: Poverty, Peace, Nonviolence, etc. Except Chastity. :cool: Classes: Any class that does more for others than it does for itself should be fitting. Because of the focus on helping, the character should not be focused on "killing", at best it should be able to incapacitate its foes. This eliminates most martial classes. I like the Apostle of Peace, and clerics in general. Sorcerers are also mechanically sound. Races: Any. Focus: Helping others! If that means healing, then so be it. Any focus fitting the theme is good. Notes: The character will be aphonic (incapable of audible speech or verbal communication).
Xeraph 01-23-06, 03:43 PM	Well most classes fit this idea just fine. Arcane casters can incapacitate(sp?) foes with a whim, as can clerics. Most melee characters can use weapons akward to deal nonleathal damage. And they can take prcs and feats that removes this penalty. I think ive read womewhere of a rogue pulling of this trick with his sneak attack. How about a: Magic Blooded Star Elf Marshal 20? Magic Blooded Star Elf Bard 8/ Paladin 2/ Sublime Chord 2/ Virtuoso 8?
BarbeChenue 01-24-06, 02:00 AM	Thanks for the excellent suggestions! I really like them. :) Is there a way we could push the "helping others" aspect even further? I have no idea on how to do it, or else I wouldn't ask, but I'm sure the creative people here (thanks again!)have some crazy good ideas in mind.
PhoenixInferno 01-24-06, 02:12 AM	Bard 8/War Weaver 1/Recaster 1/Sublime Chord 2/War Weaver 2-5/Recaster 2-5 Focus on powerful buff spells, enhanced by the Recaster's metamagic.
Xeraph 01-24-06, 06:45 AM	Thanks for the excellent suggestions! I really like them. :) Is there a way we could push the "helping others" aspect even further? I have no idea on how to do it, or else I wouldn't ask, but I'm sure the creative people here (thanks again!)have some crazy good ideas in mind. Ofcourse, why don't you tell us exactly what it is you have problems with? If I give you the sources of the classes, you make a rough sketch of your build and we will gladly give you critique. Marshal (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20030906b) Magic Blooded from Dragon Magazine (Don't remember the number) Star Elf from Unnaproachable East Sublime Chord from Complete Arcana Virtuoso from Complete Adventurer
BarbeChenue 01-24-06, 03:57 PM	I didn't mention an important element in my opening post, but the character will be aphonic (unable to speak or communicate verbally). I'll edit that. Xeraph, I have no problem with the builds by themselves, and I can't precisely and rationally explain why I'd prefer some other options, all I can say is that it must be a matter of taste. The Marshal is a Warrior leader and the character will be completely peaceful and unagressive. I don't have issues with the Marshal class being used in Diplomacy builds, as not all diplomats are "peaceniks", but characters who hate war do not usually train as military leaders; same thing for *War* Weaver, though YMMV. The character has no money to spend on an intrument, and is completely unable to speak. It doesn't prevent entry to the Bard class at all, because the character can still dance, play cheap hand-made instruments, or else. It's just something I had to mention for the sake of completeness. I don't have my books with me, but from what I can read, and I'll admit it's based on your suggestions (both Xeraph and PhoenixInferno), here a build that would somehow fit what I had in mind: [Magic Blooded] Gloura (7th level Bard Casting, 7 HDs, 2 LAs) / Bard 1 / Apostle of Peace 2 / Sublime Chord 1 / Mystic Theurge 9 Level Adjustment Buyoff Gloura LAs, then get Saint and buy them off later. Normally, and if I'm not mistaken (I didn't look at the prereqs yet), this would give 9th level Sorcerer and Bard spells *and* 9th level Apostle of Peace spells. Wis and Cha would be the two prime stats, with Dex and Con nicely covered by the Gloura's excellent stats. Of course AoPs lack spell versatility, but their list is almost complete void of any "killer" spells. If I lack a spell, I just need to get it with the Sorcerer/Bard part. With Unearthly Grace and the Saint, I'd get Cha to Saves, Cha to AC, and Wis to AC (Saint). Add Vows on top, with their outrageous AC bonuses, and this character would be quite hard to hit. Furthermore, anyone attempting to melee it would risk having its weapon break in its hands. I'm not claiming this build is good or even works, but it's quite a good template for what I intend. I'd like to know how you could improve or completely change it. :) Edit: I'm aware Verbal components will be problematic. I'll look into this problem. :)
Aramul 01-24-06, 04:51 PM	I didn't mention an important element in my opening post, but the character will be aphonic (unable to speak or communicate verbally). I'll edit that. ...snip... Edit: I'm aware Verbal components will be problematic. I'll look into this problem. :) Especially with Bard spells. You might ask your DM to allow you to use your simple instruments as the verbal components to spells.
BarbeChenue 01-24-06, 05:23 PM	Great idea! I was thinking about something along the following lines, tell me if you think it would be balanced: The Flaw system is a variant proposed in Unearthed Arcana. The inherent "flaw" (haha) in the system is that most people can find specific flaws that they can easily dodge. Furthermore, the examples given in the book are already problematic, as they can clearly be exploited by clever players (Murky Eyed can be countered with spells, and Wizards have no problem with Noncombattant). What I was thinking for my own character was taking a virtual flaw named "Aphonic" (which prevents all verbal communication from occuring) and gaining a feat at first level in exchange. I assume this would become problematic if I were to gain telepathy at a later time, but this is not the goal of my character at all. Also, verbal component for spells still have to be provided somewhat, so I thought that in later levels I could pick a feat that would allow me to cast all spells with verbal components by using a pan flute (or other very simple instrument). From a mechanical standpoint I would still be affected by a zone of silence, and I'd be easily detectable by anyone with the ability to hear, and in the event I would lose my instrument, I'd be deprived of my spells. On the other hand the flaw gained at 1st level would allow me to get Sacred Vow, Vow of Poverty, and Nymph's Kiss at first level. In the end I sacrifice the ability to communicate efficiently in exchange for some exalted feats taken earlier (really few exalted feats are strong, so having more simply translates into taking the best ones sooner). Plus, my character is how I intended it to be.
BarbeChenue 01-26-06, 03:07 PM	:bump: