An Arcane Archer. [Archive] - Wizards Community

An Arcane Archer. [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
TrinityPower
05-21-06, 08:30 AM What would be the most effective set up to aquire the AA Prc? Fighter4/ sorc (or wizard)X? Does the AA gain a +1 caster progression? If not, would it be too unbalancing for a DM to give them that ability?
rilem
05-21-06, 10:53 AM The Arcane Archer is (in most campaigns) dreadful after level 2, though the skills are nice. The key ability is generally pointless because using Greater Magic Weapon or a magic bow will make it redundant. It gains no spellcasting progression; adding 1/2 caster progression instead of the arrow enhancement would probably be fine; more (with full bab, 2 good saves and 4 skill points per level is probably too much; you have to knock the skills down at least).

Wiz/Sorc/Bard are all good;
StormPoet
05-22-06, 01:52 AM A couple of questions...

1. Do the bonuses from both the AA Enhance Arrow ability and a bow's magic bonus stack? (example: Enhance Arrow +1 and a +5 Magic Bow= +6 mod)

2. What about granting the AA the ability to choose 1 area effect spell per level with the level limit being equal to their casting stat mod (useable only with the imbue arrow ability)? Would that overpower them?
JosephKell
05-22-06, 02:02 AM No.

If you have a +2 Flaming Bow and a +4 arrow from the class feature, you treat it as a +4 Flaming attack.
Lord_of_Omnipotence
05-22-06, 05:06 AM The solution to the non-stacking problem would be to pick up a +1 bow with all sorts of magical enhancements. Pick up flaming, frost, shock, and whattever else suits your needs. The arcane archer's arrow enhancement class feature will handle your accuracy problem and further boost your damage.

While the arcane archer certainly isn't the most optimized prestige class, it's by no means unplayable.

To go for the class, i'd suggest something along the lines of fighter6/wizard1/arcanearcherx.

As for your second question, it really depends on what you trade to gain that ability. I'd suggest sticking with the class as written, and if you really wanted to go with an archer/caster, i'd suggest merely dipping into arcane archer and going for something like Fighter1/Wizard2/ElfParagon3/Spellsword1/Dragonslayer1/ArcaneArcher2/Knightphantom10, netting you BAB 18 and CL 15 (19 with practiced spellcaster).
SanderJK
05-22-06, 06:38 AM How about using a Duskblade instead of a sorc/wiz for the arcane req. ? 1 level of an arcane class won't have you casting good anyway, and the Duskblade is slightly worse then sorc/war, but at least a Duskblade has no failure in light armor, better saves, full BAB progression.
JungeonJeff
05-22-06, 06:56 AM How about using a Duskblade instead of a sorc/wiz for the arcane req. ? 1 level of an arcane class won't have you casting good anyway, and the Duskblade is slightly worse then sorc/war, but at least a Duskblade has no failure in light armor, better saves, full BAB progression.

That, or Hexblade.

Hexblade 4/ Fighter 2

This will allow you to enter the AA PrC with abilities such as Mettle, Hexblades Curse, Arcane Resistance, and a Familiar (exelent scout). Its full BAB progression, and +4/+1/+4 Saves. Not bad :)
rilem
05-22-06, 11:02 AM Pick up flaming, frost, shock, and whattever else suits your needs. The arcane archer's arrow enhancement class feature will handle your accuracy problem and further boost your damage.

Even with this, you'd still be better off in most cases just having the party cleric/wizard (or yourself, if you're an archer/gish) cast GMW on your arrows 1/day. In most cases, this single spell will equal (or come within +1) of the AA's core ability. Not worth it, unless you're in a low-magic campaign or playing in a lot of RPGA-type events where you don't know your party's makeup from adventure to adventure.

What about Duskblade?

It's fine, but it shares with Hexblade a lack of Area-effect spells to use with Imbue Arrow. Most of the Duskblade's spells are targeted, rather than area spells (Though Doom Scarabs would work).

Imbue Arrow is really pretty nice — putting spells such as Antimagic Field, Shatter and the like onto an arrow can open up some nice artillery options. That's why something like Wizard/Fighter/AA2/EldritchKnightX works our fairly well.
Mommy was an Orc
05-22-06, 11:31 AM Imbue Arrow is really pretty nice — putting spells such as Antimagic Field, Shatter and the like onto an arrow can open up some nice artillery options. That's why something like Wizard/Fighter/AA2/EldritchKnightX works our fairly well.

You don't actually need Fighter for the build - AA gives martial weapon prof and being an elf gives the longbow prof.

Bard 8/AA 2/Sublime Chord 2/EK 8 works very well also. Imbue Prismatic Sphere...
solbergb
05-22-06, 11:34 AM The low magic approach to arcane archer is usually one of:

ranger6/wiz1
fighter6/wiz1
ranger2/fighter4/wiz1
fighter2/hexblade4 (no BAB Loss)

Wizard spells have far better synergy with archery than hexblade spells, and hexblade4/fighter2 is feat-poor compared to the fighter4/6 options and skill poor compared ranger6. Ranger6 requires wisdom to get the most out of it. The whole thing works better if you have the swift CV/SC spells (in particular arrow mind and guided shot) on the ranger/wiz list to help make up for the BAB loss.

Sometimes but not usually a PRC will be mixed in. Sometimes but not usually the wiz will be sorc. Generally the feat and/or attribute costs of a PRC or going sorc rather than wiz make the latter more attractive.

The high magic approach to arcane archer exits the class at level 2, giving up two caster levels for the ability to throw a couple of key spells at arrow range (in particular, antimagic field).

Generally the "high magic" approach is a straight primary caster (I've seen good sorc, wiz and bard builds) until about level 8 (bard) or 12 (wiz/sor), getting the BAB the "hard way" and using most or all of their feats on archery stuff.

Frankly, I think the low magic version makes a decent archer (not stellar, but decent) and the high magic version makes a suboptimal, possibly even subiconic primary caster (giving up feats that could enhance your power for archery feats, then losing two caster levels to do a trick that, while useful, greatly limits your ability to do other things). I think the bard version is better than the wizard version, especially if the bard somehow also works in sublime chord. The high magic version is a lot easier to live with if you start the campaign at high levels, where they can already do their primary trick that they paid all their feats and two caster levels for.
rilem
05-22-06, 12:03 PM I agree the Bard/SublimeChord works very well -- I forgot that AA provided Martial Weapon profs.

Bard is also good because archery is a pretty viable strategy for them in early levels anyway — they've got an OK attack with Inspire Courage and the feats aren't wasted.
Ed-Zero
05-22-06, 12:05 PM No one seems to remember the Splitting Enchantment! 2 fireball arrows for the price of 1! Golden!
Debonair
05-22-06, 03:04 PM Arcane Archer is also the cheapest fastest guaranteed way to beat DR/epic, tied with Monk if he has 25 Wisdom and buys the Feat at 21st level. Even buying a +6 weapon with no abilities is really expensive, and you can have that with a slew of other nice abilities tagged on for a fraction of the cost.

In later epic levels the ever-increasing enhancement bonus gets pretty scary, and I can't think of anything else that can keep up with that attack and damage scaling.

Pre-epic it's not too impressive, but Epic gets pretty scary.
Ed-Zero
05-22-06, 04:03 PM Arcane Archer is also the cheapest fastest guaranteed way to beat DR/epic, tied with Monk if he has 25 Wisdom and buys the Feat at 21st level. Even buying a +6 weapon with no abilities is really expensive, and you can have that with a slew of other nice abilities tagged on for a fraction of the cost.

In later epic levels the ever-increasing enhancement bonus gets pretty scary, and I can't think of anything else that can keep up with that attack and damage scaling.

Pre-epic it's not too impressive, but Epic gets pretty scary. Well then... it's time for me to make a venerable kobold Arcane Archer :D
bitnine
05-22-06, 04:27 PM There is something else fun about imbue arrow. Casting the spell and firing the arrow is set as a standard action. That's independant of the normal casting time of the spell (there's no restriction for standard action or less casting time on the spell imbued), and doesn't have a condition to increase. Usually a small perk, but somewhat handy.
solbergb
05-22-06, 08:49 PM Arcane Archer is also the cheapest fastest guaranteed way to beat DR/epic, tied with Monk if he has 25 Wisdom and buys the Feat at 21st level. Even buying a +6 weapon with no abilities is really expensive, and you can have that with a slew of other nice abilities tagged on for a fraction of the cost.
.

That's a good point, and something I noticed when doing an archer in Neverwinter Nights (which has some support for low-epic in its published adventures). Arcane archer really had no peers in the level 21+ damage dealing via projectile weapon (and the very high hit bonus increase was also quite nice).

My dragon disciple barbarian with devastating crit put enemies down faster in melee range, but you can't have everything.

Not that NWN has much to do with D&D, but yeah, the numbers support the AA concept once it gets +6 or better arrows.
Valanthe
05-22-06, 10:51 PM Well then... it's time for me to make a venerable kobold Arcane Archer :D

Race: Elf or Half-Elf.
StormPoet
05-23-06, 03:11 AM Why don't you guy ask God, trinity boy!

Yeah, yeah! Am I right? *Holds hand up for high five*

Um... what does his faith have to do with him asking a question here? Just curious.
Zellath
05-24-06, 01:36 PM i beleave he was refering to the DM, but i could be wrong...

best bet is to take AA and try and use feats to up your kill rate. anything to get you more damage and i would recommend useing a composite great bow (up to your str mod.) from complete warrior a bit more damage and i beleave a higher crit mod. AA was the ultamite archer class in early 3.0 but with other classes like OoB and peerless archer from SM the class seem to be lossing it persteage (no pun intended). if you talk to your DM about it you might be able to bring it up to par by giveing it a casting progression of +1 at second level another at 5th, the next one at 7th and the last one at tenth. granted this only give you four more caster levels but even if you only took one level in a casting class thats still a total casting level of 5 not that powerfull on it's own but with the imbuen arrow ability it makes the archer something to be feared again.

the caster level progression above was what i did in a game i ran and it didn't make the archer seem over powered it just brought him up to the other pc's level of kills. not sure how it would work with an epic AA due to the fact that the arrow themself at epic get really nasty. in the end it is up to you and your DM.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
TrinityPower 05-21-06, 08:30 AM	What would be the most effective set up to aquire the AA Prc? Fighter4/ sorc (or wizard)X? Does the AA gain a +1 caster progression? If not, would it be too unbalancing for a DM to give them that ability?
rilem 05-21-06, 10:53 AM	The Arcane Archer is (in most campaigns) dreadful after level 2, though the skills are nice. The key ability is generally pointless because using Greater Magic Weapon or a magic bow will make it redundant. It gains no spellcasting progression; adding 1/2 caster progression instead of the arrow enhancement would probably be fine; more (with full bab, 2 good saves and 4 skill points per level is probably too much; you have to knock the skills down at least). Wiz/Sorc/Bard are all good;
StormPoet 05-22-06, 01:52 AM	A couple of questions... 1. Do the bonuses from both the AA Enhance Arrow ability and a bow's magic bonus stack? (example: Enhance Arrow +1 and a +5 Magic Bow= +6 mod) 2. What about granting the AA the ability to choose 1 area effect spell per level with the level limit being equal to their casting stat mod (useable only with the imbue arrow ability)? Would that overpower them?
JosephKell 05-22-06, 02:02 AM	No. If you have a +2 Flaming Bow and a +4 arrow from the class feature, you treat it as a +4 Flaming attack.
Lord_of_Omnipotence 05-22-06, 05:06 AM	The solution to the non-stacking problem would be to pick up a +1 bow with all sorts of magical enhancements. Pick up flaming, frost, shock, and whattever else suits your needs. The arcane archer's arrow enhancement class feature will handle your accuracy problem and further boost your damage. While the arcane archer certainly isn't the most optimized prestige class, it's by no means unplayable. To go for the class, i'd suggest something along the lines of fighter6/wizard1/arcanearcherx. As for your second question, it really depends on what you trade to gain that ability. I'd suggest sticking with the class as written, and if you really wanted to go with an archer/caster, i'd suggest merely dipping into arcane archer and going for something like Fighter1/Wizard2/ElfParagon3/Spellsword1/Dragonslayer1/ArcaneArcher2/Knightphantom10, netting you BAB 18 and CL 15 (19 with practiced spellcaster).
SanderJK 05-22-06, 06:38 AM	How about using a Duskblade instead of a sorc/wiz for the arcane req. ? 1 level of an arcane class won't have you casting good anyway, and the Duskblade is slightly worse then sorc/war, but at least a Duskblade has no failure in light armor, better saves, full BAB progression.
JungeonJeff 05-22-06, 06:56 AM	How about using a Duskblade instead of a sorc/wiz for the arcane req. ? 1 level of an arcane class won't have you casting good anyway, and the Duskblade is slightly worse then sorc/war, but at least a Duskblade has no failure in light armor, better saves, full BAB progression. That, or Hexblade. Hexblade 4/ Fighter 2 This will allow you to enter the AA PrC with abilities such as Mettle, Hexblades Curse, Arcane Resistance, and a Familiar (exelent scout). Its full BAB progression, and +4/+1/+4 Saves. Not bad :)
rilem 05-22-06, 11:02 AM	Pick up flaming, frost, shock, and whattever else suits your needs. The arcane archer's arrow enhancement class feature will handle your accuracy problem and further boost your damage. Even with this, you'd still be better off in most cases just having the party cleric/wizard (or yourself, if you're an archer/gish) cast GMW on your arrows 1/day. In most cases, this single spell will equal (or come within +1) of the AA's core ability. Not worth it, unless you're in a low-magic campaign or playing in a lot of RPGA-type events where you don't know your party's makeup from adventure to adventure. What about Duskblade? It's fine, but it shares with Hexblade a lack of Area-effect spells to use with Imbue Arrow. Most of the Duskblade's spells are targeted, rather than area spells (Though Doom Scarabs would work). Imbue Arrow is really pretty nice — putting spells such as Antimagic Field, Shatter and the like onto an arrow can open up some nice artillery options. That's why something like Wizard/Fighter/AA2/EldritchKnightX works our fairly well.
Mommy was an Orc 05-22-06, 11:31 AM	Imbue Arrow is really pretty nice — putting spells such as Antimagic Field, Shatter and the like onto an arrow can open up some nice artillery options. That's why something like Wizard/Fighter/AA2/EldritchKnightX works our fairly well. You don't actually need Fighter for the build - AA gives martial weapon prof and being an elf gives the longbow prof. Bard 8/AA 2/Sublime Chord 2/EK 8 works very well also. Imbue Prismatic Sphere...
solbergb 05-22-06, 11:34 AM	The low magic approach to arcane archer is usually one of: ranger6/wiz1 fighter6/wiz1 ranger2/fighter4/wiz1 fighter2/hexblade4 (no BAB Loss) Wizard spells have far better synergy with archery than hexblade spells, and hexblade4/fighter2 is feat-poor compared to the fighter4/6 options and skill poor compared ranger6. Ranger6 requires wisdom to get the most out of it. The whole thing works better if you have the swift CV/SC spells (in particular arrow mind and guided shot) on the ranger/wiz list to help make up for the BAB loss. Sometimes but not usually a PRC will be mixed in. Sometimes but not usually the wiz will be sorc. Generally the feat and/or attribute costs of a PRC or going sorc rather than wiz make the latter more attractive. The high magic approach to arcane archer exits the class at level 2, giving up two caster levels for the ability to throw a couple of key spells at arrow range (in particular, antimagic field). Generally the "high magic" approach is a straight primary caster (I've seen good sorc, wiz and bard builds) until about level 8 (bard) or 12 (wiz/sor), getting the BAB the "hard way" and using most or all of their feats on archery stuff. Frankly, I think the low magic version makes a decent archer (not stellar, but decent) and the high magic version makes a suboptimal, possibly even subiconic primary caster (giving up feats that could enhance your power for archery feats, then losing two caster levels to do a trick that, while useful, greatly limits your ability to do other things). I think the bard version is better than the wizard version, especially if the bard somehow also works in sublime chord. The high magic version is a lot easier to live with if you start the campaign at high levels, where they can already do their primary trick that they paid all their feats and two caster levels for.
rilem 05-22-06, 12:03 PM	I agree the Bard/SublimeChord works very well -- I forgot that AA provided Martial Weapon profs. Bard is also good because archery is a pretty viable strategy for them in early levels anyway — they've got an OK attack with Inspire Courage and the feats aren't wasted.
Ed-Zero 05-22-06, 12:05 PM	No one seems to remember the Splitting Enchantment! 2 fireball arrows for the price of 1! Golden!
Debonair 05-22-06, 03:04 PM	Arcane Archer is also the cheapest fastest guaranteed way to beat DR/epic, tied with Monk if he has 25 Wisdom and buys the Feat at 21st level. Even buying a +6 weapon with no abilities is really expensive, and you can have that with a slew of other nice abilities tagged on for a fraction of the cost. In later epic levels the ever-increasing enhancement bonus gets pretty scary, and I can't think of anything else that can keep up with that attack and damage scaling. Pre-epic it's not too impressive, but Epic gets pretty scary.
Ed-Zero 05-22-06, 04:03 PM	Arcane Archer is also the cheapest fastest guaranteed way to beat DR/epic, tied with Monk if he has 25 Wisdom and buys the Feat at 21st level. Even buying a +6 weapon with no abilities is really expensive, and you can have that with a slew of other nice abilities tagged on for a fraction of the cost. In later epic levels the ever-increasing enhancement bonus gets pretty scary, and I can't think of anything else that can keep up with that attack and damage scaling. Pre-epic it's not too impressive, but Epic gets pretty scary. Well then... it's time for me to make a venerable kobold Arcane Archer :D
bitnine 05-22-06, 04:27 PM	There is something else fun about imbue arrow. Casting the spell and firing the arrow is set as a standard action. That's independant of the normal casting time of the spell (there's no restriction for standard action or less casting time on the spell imbued), and doesn't have a condition to increase. Usually a small perk, but somewhat handy.
solbergb 05-22-06, 08:49 PM	Arcane Archer is also the cheapest fastest guaranteed way to beat DR/epic, tied with Monk if he has 25 Wisdom and buys the Feat at 21st level. Even buying a +6 weapon with no abilities is really expensive, and you can have that with a slew of other nice abilities tagged on for a fraction of the cost. . That's a good point, and something I noticed when doing an archer in Neverwinter Nights (which has some support for low-epic in its published adventures). Arcane archer really had no peers in the level 21+ damage dealing via projectile weapon (and the very high hit bonus increase was also quite nice). My dragon disciple barbarian with devastating crit put enemies down faster in melee range, but you can't have everything. Not that NWN has much to do with D&D, but yeah, the numbers support the AA concept once it gets +6 or better arrows.
Valanthe 05-22-06, 10:51 PM	Well then... it's time for me to make a venerable kobold Arcane Archer :D Race: Elf or Half-Elf.
StormPoet 05-23-06, 03:11 AM	Why don't you guy ask God, trinity boy! Yeah, yeah! Am I right? Holds hand up for high five Um... what does his faith have to do with him asking a question here? Just curious.
Zellath 05-24-06, 01:36 PM	i beleave he was refering to the DM, but i could be wrong... best bet is to take AA and try and use feats to up your kill rate. anything to get you more damage and i would recommend useing a composite great bow (up to your str mod.) from complete warrior a bit more damage and i beleave a higher crit mod. AA was the ultamite archer class in early 3.0 but with other classes like OoB and peerless archer from SM the class seem to be lossing it persteage (no pun intended). if you talk to your DM about it you might be able to bring it up to par by giveing it a casting progression of +1 at second level another at 5th, the next one at 7th and the last one at tenth. granted this only give you four more caster levels but even if you only took one level in a casting class thats still a total casting level of 5 not that powerfull on it's own but with the imbuen arrow ability it makes the archer something to be feared again. the caster level progression above was what i did in a game i ran and it didn't make the archer seem over powered it just brought him up to the other pc's level of kills. not sure how it would work with an epic AA due to the fact that the arrow themself at epic get really nasty. in the end it is up to you and your DM.