An Artifact Hunter (Indiana Jones and Lara Croft style) [Archive] - Wizards Community

An Artifact Hunter (Indiana Jones and Lara Croft style) [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Kingside_Bishop
12-27-04, 11:47 PM The Artifact Hunter (Lara Croft and Indiana Jones style) has always been one of my favorite concepts. I've built several reincarnations of the idea, and as my skills at min/maxing have gotten better, so has the character. So, here's my latest re-working, by far the best to date (the first was a Ranger 10 / Bard 10). I tried to mix Indiana Jones' mad whip skills with Lara Croft's dual pistol (crossbow) wielding insanity, and here's the result:

"To go everywhere is to know everything."
-- Radif Mirge, Artifact HunterRace: Human
Aligment: Chaotic Good
Class: Ranger 2 / Wizard 1 (11) / Rogue 1 / Fighter 2 / Lasher 2 / Virtuoso 2 / Spellsword 4 / Loremaster 6

01 Rgr 1 Track, Exotic Weapon Proficiency - Whip, Able Learner
02 Rgr 1 / Wiz 1 Scribe Scroll
03 Rgr 1 / Wiz 1 / Rog 1 Two Weapon Fighting
04 Rgr 2 / Wiz 1 / Rog 1 Rapid Shot
05 Rgr 2 / Wiz 1 / Rog 1 / Ftr 1 Improved Buckler Defense
06 Rgr 2 / Wiz 1 / Rog 1 / Ftr 2 Quick Draw, Weapon Focus - Whip
07 Rgr 2 / Wiz 1 / Rog 1 / Ftr 2 / Lsh 1
08 Rgr 2 / Wiz 1 / Rog 1 / Ftr 2 / Lsh 2 Improved Trip
09 Rgr 2 / Wiz 1 / Rog 1 / Ftr 2 / Lsh 2 / Vrt 1 Weapon Finesse
10 Rgr 2 / Wiz 1 / Rog 1 / Ftr 2 / Lsh 2 / Vrt 2
11 Rgr 2 / Wiz 1 / Rog 1 / Ftr 2 / Lsh 2 / Vrt 2 / SpS 1
12 Rgr 2 / Wiz 1 / Rog 1 / Ftr 2 / Lsh 2 / Vrt 2 / SpS 2 Silent Spell, Disguise Spell
13 Rgr 2 / Wiz 1 / Rog 1 / Ftr 2 / Lsh 2 / Vrt 2 / SpS 3
14 Rgr 2 / Wiz 1 / Rog 1 / Ftr 2 / Lsh 2 / Vrt 2 / SpS 4
15 Rgr 2 / Wiz 1 / Rog 1 / Ftr 2 / Lsh 2 / Vrt 2 / SpS 4 / Lrm 1 Skill Focus - Knowledge (geography)
16 Rgr 2 / Wiz 1 / Rog 1 / Ftr 2 / Lsh 2 / Vrt 2 / SpS 4 / Lrm 2
17 Rgr 2 / Wiz 1 / Rog 1 / Ftr 2 / Lsh 2 / Vrt 2 / SpS 4 / Lrm 3
18 Rgr 2 / Wiz 1 / Rog 1 / Ftr 2 / Lsh 2 / Vrt 2 / SpS 4 / Lrm 4 Arcane Strike
19 Rgr 2 / Wiz 1 / Rog 1 / Ftr 2 / Lsh 2 / Vrt 2 / SpS 4 / Lrm 5
20 Rgr 2 / Wiz 1 / Rog 1 / Ftr 2 / Lsh 2 / Vrt 2 / SpS 4 / Lrm 6

Base Attack: +15 (using UA fractional rule)
Base Saves: +10/+9/+10 (using UA fractional rule, balanced)
Spells: 6th level Wizard spells
Notes: Average BAB, good saves, good combat with dual self drawing and self loading light crossbows, a shortsword, and a whip, can disarm traps and sneak around, and can cast pretty well (and use his casting to great effect in combat and in a stealth/infiltration environment), and great knowledge abilities. Ranks in Use Magic Device adds to versatility.

Any input? Looking for suggestions...
Hav0k
12-27-04, 11:53 PM This looks great to me...

but what's the "Vrt", "Lrm", and the "SpS" stand for? Best guess is that Lrm stands for.. Loremaster? For some reason those classes / PrClasses aren't coming to mind.

Otherwise this build looks great, and doesn't the Artificer eventually become able to even FIX broken artifacts and such? Or something like that.. I really have no clue how that idea got into my head. Anyway, good luck with this and I hope it works out nicely!
Sentient
12-28-04, 12:00 AM Why don't you just be a bard? err.. with Great Fortitude, that is.

Or just make a varient. Pull out Bardic Music, put in a better hit die and all good saves. Call it: Adventurer.
warpdragon
12-28-04, 12:00 AM How about Temple Raider of Olidammara?
Hav0k
12-28-04, 12:45 AM Sentient - The Bard Class doesn't fit here at all. If you took out Bardic Music and made better HD and Saves... you'd have a blank class :/ I dunno what you mean, but that didn't make much sense.

-Temple Raider of Olidammara would make a bit of sense, but I tend to lean towards the build he has already gotten. Puts a sense of flavor into it, like he made a special PrClass by mixing 20 levels of other classes. I like it.
MaplessManiac620
12-28-04, 12:56 AM Master Inquisitive, found in the Eberron Campaign Setting, may work for you also.
talion09
12-28-04, 01:59 AM If not the Master Inquistor PRC, the Investigator feat itself from Ebberron is a good fit for this type of character.

When I've made similar builds, I've removed the Wizard levels in favor of Rogue. UMD is more in line with either Lara Croft or Indiana Jones than actually casting spells IMHO. Besides, to make the character properly, they should have a high charisma for the bluff and diplomacy checks.

All that being said, I'm sure there will be some good feats, PRCs and toys for Treasure Hunter style adventurers in January with the Complete Adventurer book, so whatever we post now will be outdated soon.
UMiskatonic
12-28-04, 03:23 AM I think bard works really well, actually. They get whip for free, have a solid skill list, and with a level of rogue, could easily use hand crossbows. Bards can read ancient languages, and always have a chance of knowing something useful.

Complete Adventurer is probably going to make this easier, though.

Umiskatonic
Kingside_Bishop
12-28-04, 03:41 AM Wow, thanks for all the responses!This looks great to me...

but what's the "Vrt", "Lrm", and the "SpS" stand for? Best guess is that Lrm stands for.. Loremaster? For some reason those classes / PrClasses aren't coming to mind.

Otherwise this build looks great, and doesn't the Artificer eventually become able to even FIX broken artifacts and such? Or something like that.. I really have no clue how that idea got into my head. Anyway, good luck with this and I hope it works out nicely!Sorry, I list all of his classes just before the build, but use abreviations within the build to save on space. Here are the abreviations in question:Vrt = Virtuoso
Lrm = Loremaster
SpS = SpellswordAlso, I'm extremely interested in the Artificer, but don't have the Eberon Campaign Setting. I only use homebrew campaign settings, and refuse to buy any campaign settings. But of all the settings, Eberon has tempted me most. There just seems to be so much crunchy goodness...

Why don't you just be a bard? err.. with Great Fortitude, that is.

Or just make a varient. Pull out Bardic Music, put in a better hit die and all good saves. Call it: Adventurer.Actually, one of Radif Mirge's first forms was a 20th level bard, but I found there wasn't enough combat and nature survival emphasis for my taste. Also, I find that one of the greatest challenges of min/maxing (or optimization, or whatever you call it) is working within the given system. It's like a puzzle -- if you could redraw the lines of the picture to meet your desire, where would the challenge be?

How about Temple Raider of Olidammara?I like the Temple Raider class, but don't like the fact that I have to worship Olidammara to gain access to it. Otherwise, it would be perfect -- I'd get the traps ability (which is why I took a level of Rogue) and the ability to use Cure wands. It would make a great replacement for Rogue, if it could be worked in somehow. Trouble is this -- to get into it, you need a +5 BAB. Were I to drop the level of Rogue, my BAB drops to +4, which disqualifies me for not only Temple Raider, but Lasher, which means I can't get into Virtuoso (because of skill rank requirements), which means I can't get into Spellsword, which means I can't get into Loremaster -- that's one hell of a domino effect.

Basically, I'm maxed out on PrC's. In order to take another one, I'd need to trade in a base class -- which makes it extremely difficult to qualify for my tremendous chain of PrC's. But it could be done, somehow, I'm sure. I'll put some thought into it. Thanks!

I tend to lean towards the build he has already gotten. Puts a sense of flavor into it, like he made a special PrClass by mixing 20 levels of other classes. I like it.Thanks! That's exactly how I look at it! I've always hated defining my characters by their character classes -- much better to say "Artifact Hunter" and back that up with stats! Besides, people tend to get detached and confused when you rattle off 8 classes...

Master Inquisitive, found in the Eberron Campaign Setting, may work for you also....more tempting goodness from the ECS.

Thanks, I'll do a search. If I can't find anything, I'll come back later.

If not the Master Inquistor PRC, the Investigator feat itself from Ebberron is a good fit for this type of character.

When I've made similar builds, I've removed the Wizard levels in favor of Rogue. UMD is more in line with either Lara Croft or Indiana Jones than actually casting spells IMHO. Besides, to make the character properly, they should have a high charisma for the bluff and diplomacy checks.Investigator... rings a bell. Maybe it's in one of the splatbooks, too. Anyway, I'll do a search on that, too (don't worry, I caught that it, too, is from the ECS...).

As to dropping Wizard for Rogue, I'd tend to disagree, IMHO, because of the existence of magic. In the worlds of both Indiana Jones and Lara Croft, there wasn't really any magic. But in a common D&D world, there's tons of it, and the artifacts Radif Mirge will be hunting will most likely be magical. So, just as he would study history and geography, he would study magic in a very practiced manner -- which is exactly where Wizard comes in handy -- practiced arcane study. Another perspective would be to look at the toolbox of both Lara Croft and Indiana Jones. They had all the equipment they needed, and usually anything that could be helpful. Well, magic is another tool, so why not spend some serious time working on it?

Also, I have an image of this guy as knowledge hungry. True understanding of magical items doesn't come with Use Magic Device, but with true understanding of magical powers in a more general sense. So, I guess you could say this guy is Lara Croft + Indiana Jones + Bookworm X.

I think bard works really well, actually. They get whip for free, have a solid skill list, and with a level of rogue, could easily use hand crossbows. Bards can read ancient languages, and always have a chance of knowing something useful.I agree, bard could work really well (and it has, I actually played this character in a Bard/Fighter variant -- variant #4, IIRC). But the purpose of min/maxing is to get it to work as well as it possibly can, creating a well oiled, efficient, and powerful Artifact Hunting machine. So, while a Bard/Rogue can use the whip, does have a solid skill set, and can use hand crossbows, a min/maxed build gets all of this and alot more.

I totally forgot about Complete Adventurer. You can bet that's going to have some neat stuff that will totally invalidate all of this. Good call guys.

Thanks everyone, and keep them coming!
scrollreader
12-28-04, 04:01 AM Human

Rogue 2/Hexblade 3/Artificer 15/Lasher 1

Able Learner.

Pity about losing 9th level spells. But Lasher is required, for Indy. As is, IMO, the ability to be insanely lucky (Evasion, mettle, and arcane grace)

For an optimized build, drop one lasher level, for acess to 9th level spells.
Dracophile
12-28-04, 04:14 AM Too bad about the Artificer. See what you can do about 'porting that in. I'm playin' in a non-Ebberon campaign myself, but the DM is allowing a dip into Artificer. Even without the action points, it's an awesome class, and perfect for Jones. I'm using a wand to mimic his pistol--preferable, I think, to a handcrossbow because the damage will scale with level. Here's the Indiana build that I'm currently playing, using the Feat Rogue from Unearthed Arcana:

1) Rogue 1: Exotic Weapon Prof. (Whip), Nymph's Kiss, Combat Expertise
2) Artificer 1:
3) Artificer 2: Improved Disarm
4) Rogue 2:
5) Artificer 3:
6) Artificer 4: Wand Mastery, Snatch Weapon
7) Rogue 3: Weapon Focus (Whip)
8) Lasher 1:
9) Lasher 2: Twin Spell
10) Rogue 4:
11) Artificer 5:
12) Artificer 6: Energy Substitution (Sonic)
13) Rogue 5: Two-Weapon Fighting
14) Artificer 7:
15) Artificer 8: Dual-Wand Wielder, Energy Admixture (Sonic)
16) Rogue 6:
17) Rogue 7: Point Blank Shot
18) Rogue 8: Quicken Spell
19) Rogue 9: Precise Shot
20) Rogue 10:

This character splits his focus between his "gun" (wand) and whip. The scattered Rogue progression lets you keep the improtant Indy skills maxed out.
Sentient
12-28-04, 04:27 AM Sentient - The Bard Class doesn't fit here at all. If you took out Bardic Music and made better HD and Saves... you'd have a blank class :/ I dunno what you mean, but that didn't make much sense.

-Temple Raider of Olidammara would make a bit of sense, but I tend to lean towards the build he has already gotten. Puts a sense of flavor into it, like he made a special PrClass by mixing 20 levels of other classes. I like it.

*choke* Blank class!? What about all those spells?

I kid. I just hope you don't make something too complicated, eh? And I was throwing lose suggestions for making a varient, which I was suggesting would be easier to make then the hive's nest of PrC dipping that was being tossed around.

I'm sure it doesn't fit completely, but it can treasure-hunt like no other. It has the skills to get you through the tough spots, spells to help you out if those fail, and a whip to trip. Use Magic Device, with enough "artifacts" will make you a tougher, more presentable Wizard. Do it!
Kingside_Bishop
12-28-04, 11:39 AM I'm inclined to agree with the consensus that Artificer would be a perfect fit -- but I've no access to it. None of my players or fellow DMs own the book, and I've little interest in buying it.

...oh, but the temptation mounts. It mounts indeed.
TexasFriedCriminal
12-28-04, 12:18 PM Ebberon offers two prestige classes, Eldeen Ranger (which is a nature class that grants Grace at 3rd level) & Extreme Explorer which kinda seems tailor made for something like this. Both classes get 6 skill points per level, so as an Able Learner you should be able to profit from that too.
One build I have been thinking about is
Rogue 3, Ranger 2, Extreme Explorer 4, Eldeen Ranger 4
That leaves 7 Level for whatever you want.
rilem
12-28-04, 02:44 PM No Dungeon Delver yet? No Royal Explorer? Both PrCs are excellent for this concept. (The DD, at least, will be in Complete Adventurer, so this is a bit of a placeholder.)

At least take 2 levels of Dungeon Delver. You get trapfinding (so you don't need rogue levels, blindsight 20ft and good fort saves. You lose EWP (hand crossbow), but you don't need it. Dart Thruster (Underdark) has much the same flavor and is martial.

Here’s a non-magic version. I don't see either Indy or Lara (her especially) as much of a spellcaster.7

Rog2/UrbanRanger3/RoyalExplorer3/Lasher2/DungeonDelver7/HarperAgent3
BAB 16 (fractional, rounded down), 15 non-fractional
Saves: 12/18/7 (non-fractional, b/c I can’t remember the multipliers on bad saves). Is it 10/12/7 fractional?

Save bonuses: +2 vs. compulsions (HA), +3 vs. symbols (HA), +4 vs. fear (RE), +4 reflex and +4 ACvs. traps (DD)

Gets: Trapfinding, Evasion, Tracking, Urban Tracking, 7 levels of bardic knowledge, blindsight, darkvision, reduce person, and only 2 levels with less than 6 skill pts. Plus, the ability to detect treasure at 1400 ft.

- Urban Ranger is for Endurance (for R. Exp.), and a tracking ability that isn’t made -redundant by the Royal Explorer’s free track feat. Plus, Artifacts are sometimes in cities.
- Royal Explorer is for the free EWP (whip, of course)
- Harper Agent is setting-specific but this is easy to customize.

If you want, you can swap the Rogue levels for Psychic Rogue – loss of 10 skill points over 2 levels, but you get 2 psychic powers (Know Direction/Location and Elfsight would be very handy for this concept.

You could also mix in some Exotic Weapon Master for a level of harper agent.

Feats:
Human: Keen Intellect (Ancestor Feat, 3.5 OA, use Int. mod for will saves and Wisdom-based skill checks)
1. Alertness
3. Combat Expertise
6. Weapon Focus (Whip)
9. Weapon Finesse
12. Improved Trip
15. Rapid Shot
MaplessManiac620
12-28-04, 04:18 PM Rog2/UrbanRanger3/RoyalExplorer3/Lasher2/DungeonDelver7/HarperAgent3

Where are Royal Explorer, Dungeon Delver and Harper Agent found?
eudas
12-28-04, 05:59 PM Royal Explorer and Dungeon Delver are from the 3.0 splatbook, "Song & Silence".

eudas
GRAOUH !!!
12-29-04, 08:00 AM Why not just a rogue ?
Give the whip, bardic knowledge and charisma bonus on saves instead of rapier and sneak attack.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Kingside_Bishop 12-27-04, 11:47 PM	The Artifact Hunter (Lara Croft and Indiana Jones style) has always been one of my favorite concepts. I've built several reincarnations of the idea, and as my skills at min/maxing have gotten better, so has the character. So, here's my latest re-working, by far the best to date (the first was a Ranger 10 / Bard 10). I tried to mix Indiana Jones' mad whip skills with Lara Croft's dual pistol (crossbow) wielding insanity, and here's the result: "To go everywhere is to know everything." -- Radif Mirge, Artifact HunterRace: Human Aligment: Chaotic Good Class: Ranger 2 / Wizard 1 (11) / Rogue 1 / Fighter 2 / Lasher 2 / Virtuoso 2 / Spellsword 4 / Loremaster 6 01 Rgr 1 Track, Exotic Weapon Proficiency - Whip, Able Learner 02 Rgr 1 / Wiz 1 Scribe Scroll 03 Rgr 1 / Wiz 1 / Rog 1 Two Weapon Fighting 04 Rgr 2 / Wiz 1 / Rog 1 Rapid Shot 05 Rgr 2 / Wiz 1 / Rog 1 / Ftr 1 Improved Buckler Defense 06 Rgr 2 / Wiz 1 / Rog 1 / Ftr 2 Quick Draw, Weapon Focus - Whip 07 Rgr 2 / Wiz 1 / Rog 1 / Ftr 2 / Lsh 1 08 Rgr 2 / Wiz 1 / Rog 1 / Ftr 2 / Lsh 2 Improved Trip 09 Rgr 2 / Wiz 1 / Rog 1 / Ftr 2 / Lsh 2 / Vrt 1 Weapon Finesse 10 Rgr 2 / Wiz 1 / Rog 1 / Ftr 2 / Lsh 2 / Vrt 2 11 Rgr 2 / Wiz 1 / Rog 1 / Ftr 2 / Lsh 2 / Vrt 2 / SpS 1 12 Rgr 2 / Wiz 1 / Rog 1 / Ftr 2 / Lsh 2 / Vrt 2 / SpS 2 Silent Spell, Disguise Spell 13 Rgr 2 / Wiz 1 / Rog 1 / Ftr 2 / Lsh 2 / Vrt 2 / SpS 3 14 Rgr 2 / Wiz 1 / Rog 1 / Ftr 2 / Lsh 2 / Vrt 2 / SpS 4 15 Rgr 2 / Wiz 1 / Rog 1 / Ftr 2 / Lsh 2 / Vrt 2 / SpS 4 / Lrm 1 Skill Focus - Knowledge (geography) 16 Rgr 2 / Wiz 1 / Rog 1 / Ftr 2 / Lsh 2 / Vrt 2 / SpS 4 / Lrm 2 17 Rgr 2 / Wiz 1 / Rog 1 / Ftr 2 / Lsh 2 / Vrt 2 / SpS 4 / Lrm 3 18 Rgr 2 / Wiz 1 / Rog 1 / Ftr 2 / Lsh 2 / Vrt 2 / SpS 4 / Lrm 4 Arcane Strike 19 Rgr 2 / Wiz 1 / Rog 1 / Ftr 2 / Lsh 2 / Vrt 2 / SpS 4 / Lrm 5 20 Rgr 2 / Wiz 1 / Rog 1 / Ftr 2 / Lsh 2 / Vrt 2 / SpS 4 / Lrm 6 Base Attack: +15 (using UA fractional rule) Base Saves: +10/+9/+10 (using UA fractional rule, balanced) Spells: 6th level Wizard spells Notes: Average BAB, good saves, good combat with dual self drawing and self loading light crossbows, a shortsword, and a whip, can disarm traps and sneak around, and can cast pretty well (and use his casting to great effect in combat and in a stealth/infiltration environment), and great knowledge abilities. Ranks in Use Magic Device adds to versatility. Any input? Looking for suggestions...
Hav0k 12-27-04, 11:53 PM	This looks great to me... but what's the "Vrt", "Lrm", and the "SpS" stand for? Best guess is that Lrm stands for.. Loremaster? For some reason those classes / PrClasses aren't coming to mind. Otherwise this build looks great, and doesn't the Artificer eventually become able to even FIX broken artifacts and such? Or something like that.. I really have no clue how that idea got into my head. Anyway, good luck with this and I hope it works out nicely!
Sentient 12-28-04, 12:00 AM	Why don't you just be a bard? err.. with Great Fortitude, that is. Or just make a varient. Pull out Bardic Music, put in a better hit die and all good saves. Call it: Adventurer.
warpdragon 12-28-04, 12:00 AM	How about Temple Raider of Olidammara?
Hav0k 12-28-04, 12:45 AM	Sentient - The Bard Class doesn't fit here at all. If you took out Bardic Music and made better HD and Saves... you'd have a blank class :/ I dunno what you mean, but that didn't make much sense. -Temple Raider of Olidammara would make a bit of sense, but I tend to lean towards the build he has already gotten. Puts a sense of flavor into it, like he made a special PrClass by mixing 20 levels of other classes. I like it.
MaplessManiac620 12-28-04, 12:56 AM	Master Inquisitive, found in the Eberron Campaign Setting, may work for you also.
talion09 12-28-04, 01:59 AM	If not the Master Inquistor PRC, the Investigator feat itself from Ebberron is a good fit for this type of character. When I've made similar builds, I've removed the Wizard levels in favor of Rogue. UMD is more in line with either Lara Croft or Indiana Jones than actually casting spells IMHO. Besides, to make the character properly, they should have a high charisma for the bluff and diplomacy checks. All that being said, I'm sure there will be some good feats, PRCs and toys for Treasure Hunter style adventurers in January with the Complete Adventurer book, so whatever we post now will be outdated soon.
UMiskatonic 12-28-04, 03:23 AM	I think bard works really well, actually. They get whip for free, have a solid skill list, and with a level of rogue, could easily use hand crossbows. Bards can read ancient languages, and always have a chance of knowing something useful. Complete Adventurer is probably going to make this easier, though. Umiskatonic
Kingside_Bishop 12-28-04, 03:41 AM	Wow, thanks for all the responses!This looks great to me... but what's the "Vrt", "Lrm", and the "SpS" stand for? Best guess is that Lrm stands for.. Loremaster? For some reason those classes / PrClasses aren't coming to mind. Otherwise this build looks great, and doesn't the Artificer eventually become able to even FIX broken artifacts and such? Or something like that.. I really have no clue how that idea got into my head. Anyway, good luck with this and I hope it works out nicely!Sorry, I list all of his classes just before the build, but use abreviations within the build to save on space. Here are the abreviations in question:Vrt = Virtuoso Lrm = Loremaster SpS = SpellswordAlso, I'm extremely interested in the Artificer, but don't have the Eberon Campaign Setting. I only use homebrew campaign settings, and refuse to buy any campaign settings. But of all the settings, Eberon has tempted me most. There just seems to be so much crunchy goodness... Why don't you just be a bard? err.. with Great Fortitude, that is. Or just make a varient. Pull out Bardic Music, put in a better hit die and all good saves. Call it: Adventurer.Actually, one of Radif Mirge's first forms was a 20th level bard, but I found there wasn't enough combat and nature survival emphasis for my taste. Also, I find that one of the greatest challenges of min/maxing (or optimization, or whatever you call it) is working within the given system. It's like a puzzle -- if you could redraw the lines of the picture to meet your desire, where would the challenge be? How about Temple Raider of Olidammara?I like the Temple Raider class, but don't like the fact that I have to worship Olidammara to gain access to it. Otherwise, it would be perfect -- I'd get the traps ability (which is why I took a level of Rogue) and the ability to use Cure wands. It would make a great replacement for Rogue, if it could be worked in somehow. Trouble is this -- to get into it, you need a +5 BAB. Were I to drop the level of Rogue, my BAB drops to +4, which disqualifies me for not only Temple Raider, but Lasher, which means I can't get into Virtuoso (because of skill rank requirements), which means I can't get into Spellsword, which means I can't get into Loremaster -- that's one hell of a domino effect. Basically, I'm maxed out on PrC's. In order to take another one, I'd need to trade in a base class -- which makes it extremely difficult to qualify for my tremendous chain of PrC's. But it could be done, somehow, I'm sure. I'll put some thought into it. Thanks! I tend to lean towards the build he has already gotten. Puts a sense of flavor into it, like he made a special PrClass by mixing 20 levels of other classes. I like it.Thanks! That's exactly how I look at it! I've always hated defining my characters by their character classes -- much better to say "Artifact Hunter" and back that up with stats! Besides, people tend to get detached and confused when you rattle off 8 classes... Master Inquisitive, found in the Eberron Campaign Setting, may work for you also....more tempting goodness from the ECS. Thanks, I'll do a search. If I can't find anything, I'll come back later. If not the Master Inquistor PRC, the Investigator feat itself from Ebberron is a good fit for this type of character. When I've made similar builds, I've removed the Wizard levels in favor of Rogue. UMD is more in line with either Lara Croft or Indiana Jones than actually casting spells IMHO. Besides, to make the character properly, they should have a high charisma for the bluff and diplomacy checks.Investigator... rings a bell. Maybe it's in one of the splatbooks, too. Anyway, I'll do a search on that, too (don't worry, I caught that it, too, is from the ECS...). As to dropping Wizard for Rogue, I'd tend to disagree, IMHO, because of the existence of magic. In the worlds of both Indiana Jones and Lara Croft, there wasn't really any magic. But in a common D&D world, there's tons of it, and the artifacts Radif Mirge will be hunting will most likely be magical. So, just as he would study history and geography, he would study magic in a very practiced manner -- which is exactly where Wizard comes in handy -- practiced arcane study. Another perspective would be to look at the toolbox of both Lara Croft and Indiana Jones. They had all the equipment they needed, and usually anything that could be helpful. Well, magic is another tool, so why not spend some serious time working on it? Also, I have an image of this guy as knowledge hungry. True understanding of magical items doesn't come with Use Magic Device, but with true understanding of magical powers in a more general sense. So, I guess you could say this guy is Lara Croft + Indiana Jones + Bookworm X. I think bard works really well, actually. They get whip for free, have a solid skill list, and with a level of rogue, could easily use hand crossbows. Bards can read ancient languages, and always have a chance of knowing something useful.I agree, bard could work really well (and it has, I actually played this character in a Bard/Fighter variant -- variant #4, IIRC). But the purpose of min/maxing is to get it to work as well as it possibly can, creating a well oiled, efficient, and powerful Artifact Hunting machine. So, while a Bard/Rogue can use the whip, does have a solid skill set, and can use hand crossbows, a min/maxed build gets all of this and alot more. I totally forgot about Complete Adventurer. You can bet that's going to have some neat stuff that will totally invalidate all of this. Good call guys. Thanks everyone, and keep them coming!
scrollreader 12-28-04, 04:01 AM	Human Rogue 2/Hexblade 3/Artificer 15/Lasher 1 Able Learner. Pity about losing 9th level spells. But Lasher is required, for Indy. As is, IMO, the ability to be insanely lucky (Evasion, mettle, and arcane grace) For an optimized build, drop one lasher level, for acess to 9th level spells.
Dracophile 12-28-04, 04:14 AM	Too bad about the Artificer. See what you can do about 'porting that in. I'm playin' in a non-Ebberon campaign myself, but the DM is allowing a dip into Artificer. Even without the action points, it's an awesome class, and perfect for Jones. I'm using a wand to mimic his pistol--preferable, I think, to a handcrossbow because the damage will scale with level. Here's the Indiana build that I'm currently playing, using the Feat Rogue from Unearthed Arcana: 1) Rogue 1: Exotic Weapon Prof. (Whip), Nymph's Kiss, Combat Expertise 2) Artificer 1: 3) Artificer 2: Improved Disarm 4) Rogue 2: 5) Artificer 3: 6) Artificer 4: Wand Mastery, Snatch Weapon 7) Rogue 3: Weapon Focus (Whip) 8) Lasher 1: 9) Lasher 2: Twin Spell 10) Rogue 4: 11) Artificer 5: 12) Artificer 6: Energy Substitution (Sonic) 13) Rogue 5: Two-Weapon Fighting 14) Artificer 7: 15) Artificer 8: Dual-Wand Wielder, Energy Admixture (Sonic) 16) Rogue 6: 17) Rogue 7: Point Blank Shot 18) Rogue 8: Quicken Spell 19) Rogue 9: Precise Shot 20) Rogue 10: This character splits his focus between his "gun" (wand) and whip. The scattered Rogue progression lets you keep the improtant Indy skills maxed out.
Sentient 12-28-04, 04:27 AM	Sentient - The Bard Class doesn't fit here at all. If you took out Bardic Music and made better HD and Saves... you'd have a blank class :/ I dunno what you mean, but that didn't make much sense. -Temple Raider of Olidammara would make a bit of sense, but I tend to lean towards the build he has already gotten. Puts a sense of flavor into it, like he made a special PrClass by mixing 20 levels of other classes. I like it. choke Blank class!? What about all those spells? I kid. I just hope you don't make something too complicated, eh? And I was throwing lose suggestions for making a varient, which I was suggesting would be easier to make then the hive's nest of PrC dipping that was being tossed around. I'm sure it doesn't fit completely, but it can treasure-hunt like no other. It has the skills to get you through the tough spots, spells to help you out if those fail, and a whip to trip. Use Magic Device, with enough "artifacts" will make you a tougher, more presentable Wizard. Do it!
Kingside_Bishop 12-28-04, 11:39 AM	I'm inclined to agree with the consensus that Artificer would be a perfect fit -- but I've no access to it. None of my players or fellow DMs own the book, and I've little interest in buying it. ...oh, but the temptation mounts. It mounts indeed.
TexasFriedCriminal 12-28-04, 12:18 PM	Ebberon offers two prestige classes, Eldeen Ranger (which is a nature class that grants Grace at 3rd level) & Extreme Explorer which kinda seems tailor made for something like this. Both classes get 6 skill points per level, so as an Able Learner you should be able to profit from that too. One build I have been thinking about is Rogue 3, Ranger 2, Extreme Explorer 4, Eldeen Ranger 4 That leaves 7 Level for whatever you want.
rilem 12-28-04, 02:44 PM	No Dungeon Delver yet? No Royal Explorer? Both PrCs are excellent for this concept. (The DD, at least, will be in Complete Adventurer, so this is a bit of a placeholder.) At least take 2 levels of Dungeon Delver. You get trapfinding (so you don't need rogue levels, blindsight 20ft and good fort saves. You lose EWP (hand crossbow), but you don't need it. Dart Thruster (Underdark) has much the same flavor and is martial. Here’s a non-magic version. I don't see either Indy or Lara (her especially) as much of a spellcaster.7 Rog2/UrbanRanger3/RoyalExplorer3/Lasher2/DungeonDelver7/HarperAgent3 BAB 16 (fractional, rounded down), 15 non-fractional Saves: 12/18/7 (non-fractional, b/c I can’t remember the multipliers on bad saves). Is it 10/12/7 fractional? Save bonuses: +2 vs. compulsions (HA), +3 vs. symbols (HA), +4 vs. fear (RE), +4 reflex and +4 ACvs. traps (DD) Gets: Trapfinding, Evasion, Tracking, Urban Tracking, 7 levels of bardic knowledge, blindsight, darkvision, reduce person, and only 2 levels with less than 6 skill pts. Plus, the ability to detect treasure at 1400 ft. - Urban Ranger is for Endurance (for R. Exp.), and a tracking ability that isn’t made -redundant by the Royal Explorer’s free track feat. Plus, Artifacts are sometimes in cities. - Royal Explorer is for the free EWP (whip, of course) - Harper Agent is setting-specific but this is easy to customize. If you want, you can swap the Rogue levels for Psychic Rogue – loss of 10 skill points over 2 levels, but you get 2 psychic powers (Know Direction/Location and Elfsight would be very handy for this concept. You could also mix in some Exotic Weapon Master for a level of harper agent. Feats: Human: Keen Intellect (Ancestor Feat, 3.5 OA, use Int. mod for will saves and Wisdom-based skill checks) 1. Alertness 3. Combat Expertise 6. Weapon Focus (Whip) 9. Weapon Finesse 12. Improved Trip 15. Rapid Shot
MaplessManiac620 12-28-04, 04:18 PM	Rog2/UrbanRanger3/RoyalExplorer3/Lasher2/DungeonDelver7/HarperAgent3 Where are Royal Explorer, Dungeon Delver and Harper Agent found?
eudas 12-28-04, 05:59 PM	Royal Explorer and Dungeon Delver are from the 3.0 splatbook, "Song & Silence". eudas
GRAOUH !!! 12-29-04, 08:00 AM	Why not just a rogue ? Give the whip, bardic knowledge and charisma bonus on saves instead of rapier and sneak attack.