Post/Author/DateTime	Post
gunnarr 08-10-05, 10:56 AM	Hi everyone :) I recently joined a D&D3.5 team and really looking forward on starting my first trpg experience (Yay!) There is a paladin, a samurai type character, and a cleric in my party, and my character is a human druid at 9th lvl, and my DM told me that we would most likely to be playing up till 15th level or so. My plan is to play a general druid who is generally good at many aspects. Since I would not like to lose any of my wildshaping, summoning, and spellcasting(since we don't have any spellcaster other than a cleric) areas. So i've been looking at the druid guides and rulebooks for few days but everything just seems so confusing to a newbie :confused: (too..many..rulebooks) My GM is pretty easy regarding the rules, so he would allow me to aply most 3.5 compatible rulebooks so I can use things like such as Greenbound, Dragon wild shape, RES and etc. However, it was quite hard to choose which feat I should take since almost no guides are based on creating a mid lvl character. Except the 6th lvl natural spell feat, I have to choose some feats for my mid level druid. Out of 5(including Natural Spell) feats I can have on 9th lvl, I need to decide on few things which I couldn't make my mind up. a. SF(conjur)+augmented summoning (after reading some recent posts, I've been wondering if these two feats are actually worth investing) b. Choosing one of Greenbound or Rashemi Elemental Summoning or since I'm starting from 9th lvl. Should I choose both of them? c. Is Ashbound worth getting with either a or b d. Would It help my spellcasting ability a lot if I add a metamagic feat (example :extend spell)? e. I also need to decide whether I should wildshape into Legendary Ape or pick the dragon wild shape feat. Any suggestions please? :) Next questions are about my equipments. I couldn't find any guides about low-mid lvl druid equipments so I just can't seem to find out what a druid should buy (so.. many.. rulebooks..) Any suggestion for a general druid equipment, who will be able to turn into a legendary ape at lvl 12. My GM gave me 50000gp but 12000 gp was spent on a custom-made neckless which allowed me to talk with ppl&animals(thanks to my nice GM yay!) and I bought a bag of holding worth 2500gp. And after reading some posts I find out that since I could use spike/brambles on a brasswood scimitar(I think I can argue my GM into accepting it :) ) But I couldn't find the description for brasswood. It'd be nice if you told me which book it's in. So I need to decide what I should buy with remaining 35000gp or so. Thank you for reading through all this mess, and I'm really sorry for asking just too many stupid questions. It would be very appreciated if you could give me the answers for at least some of these :) Thank you! ps. is there any way to search the optimization boards?
LordKiwi 08-10-05, 11:24 AM	Except the 6th lvl natural spell feat, I have to choose some feats for my mid level druid. a. SF(conjur)+augmented summoning (after reading some recent posts, I've been wondering if these two feats are actually worth investing) b. Choosing one of Greenbound or Rashemi Elemental Summoning or since I'm starting from 9th lvl. Should I choose both of them? c. Is Ashbound worth getting with either a or b Summoning is generally below par unless you specialise. Either get all the feats you can or none of them and keep summoning as an emergincy tactic. Natural Spell is an obvious choice for someone that wants to be an ape all day long. For other feats... Lion's Pounce is about the only useful Wild Feat, and is good for a combat druid. Natural Bond can enhance your animal companion, assuming you take one of the advanced ones. e.g. take a Tiger (druid level -6) and you level for animal companion bonuses on the chart will be 9-6+3=6, 3 more than normal (but not more than your character level). d. Would It help my spellcasting ability a lot if I add a metamagic feat (example :extend spell)? Sudden Maximise is actually really quite good when applied to Call Lightning Storm, as is Born of Three Thunders. e. I also need to decide whether I should wildshape into Legendary Ape or pick the dragon wild shape feat. Any suggestions please? :) Stick with the ape, you can use weapons and armour that way. And save a feat. And after reading some posts I find out that since I could use spike/brambles on a brasswood scimitar(I think I can argue my GM into accepting it :) ) But I couldn't find the description for brasswood. It'd be nice if you told me which book it's in. It's Ironwood, not Brasswood, form the DMG. ps. is there any way to search the optimization boards? The search is down at the moment but you can use google, and search only in boards1.wizards.com. Not perfect but it sometimes works. Other stops for useful threads is the optimisation library that's been stickied and the signitures of the various regulars. Lord Kiwi,
Sang-Drax 08-10-05, 12:14 PM	Under my sig, for example, there's a link to the 3.5 Druid Handbook. It's really good and it's almost complete - most of the information you'll need is there. Maybe what you were talking bout ws bronzewood, from Eberron. I'd never waste a feat on Dragon Wild Shape. I's only good for the Shadow Dragon form, which not everybody has access to. Extend Spell is specially good for Spikes, Creeping Cold, and Ice Storm. Sudden Maximize is awesome for Call Lightning Storm, but even better for Quill Blast (CD). I disagree with Lord Kiwi on the summoning aspect, though... I guess taking SF: conjuration + Augment Summoning is only worth it if you take other summoning feats, but Rashemi Elemental Summoning itself is quite powerful already. The cone of cold your elementals will be able to cast are independent from any other summoning feats you'll have. Given the option, I'd go Shifter, either with the Dreamsight trait or the Longtooth one (possibly both ;))
gunnarr 08-10-05, 02:25 PM	Thanks for the kind and quick reply! and yes Sang-Drax bronzewood was exactly what I was looking for. lol However there are a few question that still remain so it'd be nice if you could give me some thoughts on them please :) I've been reading through the druid handbook for days but there are some things that I can't seem to find.. (the guide has been huge help though I decided to play a druid after reading the guide ;) ) First of all, I narrowed my path into two, First one is... Keeping summoning as an emergency tactic as LordKiwi told me, and focusing more on the spellcasting ape druid by using my 4 feat(other than Natural Spell) on.. Extend Spell Sudden Maximize Rashemi Elemental Summoning +one other feat (Natural Bond / Sudden Empower spell* whichever is better) Empower Spell - Handy for druids who do a lot of blasting, but only druids who do a lot of blasting. Definitely choose this over Maximize Spell or Energy Admixture * the handbook said one should definitely choose this over Maximize Spell but is this only for blasting druids? Summoning is generally below par unless you specialise. Either get all the feats you can or none of them and keep summoning as an emergincy tactic. Second one would be... Spell focus (conjuration) Augmented Summoning Ashbound Greenbound / RES * * as for choosing between one of these two feats, which do you think would be better for 9th lvl druid who will spend most of his time playing on 9~15 lvl? Everyone says Greenbound is good at low lvl, and RES is far better in higher lvl.. but what about mid level druid? nobody seems to be answering this question, argh? :confused: :weep: I'm even thinking of taking both of them and abandoning ashbound. would this be wise? Ok lastly.. I've searched 20~30pages on this board but I just couldn't find any tips on druid equipment. sigh... so any tips would be greatly appreciated :) So far I chose.. bag of holding I(2500gp) a custom neckless of animal/ppl speaking(12000gp) a masterwork brasswood scimitar. (1d6 +1, 18-20/x2, 3.6lb./(do i round it to 4lb.?) 2115gp/2315gp(if 4lb.) and I need to choose some remaining equipments with 33000gp left.. I won't need a specific cost of a item or common adventuring gear but please tell me some not-to-expensive gear for a mid-lvl druid. such as armor, boots, shield, gloves, and etc.. Anyway, Thanks again! I hope I gain enough knowledge about druid after playing this char. so I could help other newbie druid too :D
kingrat55 08-10-05, 03:29 PM	One of my build: Rider Druid (Human), great if you going epic and if you can take a Dire Polar Bear for animal compagnion. Summon ally are not very good at epic lvl (imho), i prefert invest feats on my animal companion and ride it. 1 Druid Improved Initiative, Spell Penetration 2 Druid 3 Druid Extend Spell 4 Druid 5 Wiz Scribe Scroll (Spec school: Conj. Prohibited:Enc/Nec) 6 Wiz Nature Bond 7 Wiz 8 Arcane Hierophant 9 Arcane Hierophant Natural Spell 10 Arcane Hierophant 11 Arcane Hierophant 12 Arcane Hierophant Mounted Combat 13 Arcane Hierophant 14 Arcane Hierophant 15 Arcane Hierophant Greater Spell Penetration 16 Arcane Hierophant 17 Arcane Hierophant 18 Druid Ride by attack 19 Druid 20 Druid Nature Bond feat (CV) and Arcana Hierophant PrC (RoW). At 20th lvl you are a arcane caster 13 and Divine caster 17.
Xykon 08-11-05, 12:40 AM	I pressume that you are referring to *magical items*. Here is a link where you can get all info 3.5 core books magical items in a nice easy to access format. Sovelior Sage SRD (http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/35/sovelior_sage/home.html) or alternatively a downloadable version: Zipped Hmtl version (http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/index.htm?35/sovelior_sage.htm) click on the zipped html version once there just go to the magic items sections and you should be able to guide yourself through... Before i go into detail on what equipment is advisable, some questions: 1. what materials are you allowed? when i say materials i mean what books are allowed or just core rulebooks? 2. Are there any restrictions on uncommon/rare materials? I'm talking about adamantine, mithral, dragon hide, darkwood and cold-iron 3. Any rough ideas what you are going against? Or shall i say, any ideas where the campaign is set? Wilderness, dungeon, tower, etc.
Xykon 08-11-05, 02:08 AM	Ok, here are some equipment from that you can choose from - Note that i do not know the stats of your druid so i am going to be a bit generic... Rings, Rods, Wondrous items [Must have's] 1. Periapt of Wisdom (Wondrous item. +2=4,000 gp, +4=16,000, +6=36,000). A must have. Additional bonus spells, increase DC, increase will save are just too much to pass. I suggest to take the +4. Edit: Forget this. I just remembered you have one necklace already. [Nice to have] 1. Ring of Feather Falling (Ring, 2,200gp) - Turns on feather fall automatically if you fall beyond 5 ft. Cheap life saver specially when you get into trouble while in the form of a flying animal. 2. Metamagic Rod: Lesser Empower (9,000 gp) or Lesser Maximize (14,000) if you plan on doing call lightning a lot. Up to your preference... [Others] Pick these if you need to satisfy a niche advantage or ability. But other wise, you can live without them. 1. Druid's Vestment (wondrous item 10,000 gp) 2. Various rings of protection 3. Cloaks of resistance 4. Pearls of Power 5. Boots of Speed (wondrous item 12,000 gp) - Haste for 10 rounds, can be split up in use 6. Slippers of Spider climbing (wondrous item 4,800 gp) - Spider climb for 10 minutes, can be split up in use 7. Winged boots (wondrous item 16,000 gp) - Fly for up to 5 minutes, 3x per day. Armor and Weapons [Armor] Dragon Hide Beast Skin Breast Plate +1/+2: Beastskin (from Complete Adventurer) First created by powerful druids, armor with this special ability is particularly useful to characters of that sort. Whenever you should use the Wildshape class feature while wearing a suit of armor with the beastskin property, you can expend an additional daily use of your wild shape ability to cause the armor to be transformed with you. When used in this manner, the beastskin armor becomes a suit of armor fitted for your new form rather than simply merging with your body. The armor continues to grant its armor bonus, applying the appropriate armor check penalty, slowing your movement rate and otherwise functioning as a suit of armor fitted to the new form. The armor increase/decreases to match your new size (and shape, if you assume a quadrupedal form) and therefore might affect your carrying capacity differently than it does in your natural form. If in your natural form you are proficient with the type of armor to which the beastskin quality has been supplied, then you are proficient with the beastskin armor when you are transformed, regardless of what shape you take. This special ability can only be applied to armor, not to shields. Strong transmutation; CL 13th, Craft Magic arms and armor, ironwood, Price: +2 bonus +1 Costs: 9,700 gp = 700 (dragon hide breast plate) + 9,000 (+3 enhancement) +2 Costs: 16,700 gp = 700 (dragon hide breast plate) + 16,000 (+4 enhancement) Note: 1. Be sure to check for encumberance! if you're a druid with str 6, then you might not have any other choice but go unarmored! [Weapons] Melee: Any. You'll hardly use it in melee anyway. I would suggest get a normal spear (10ft reach) in times where you need to poke at something (i.e. checking the depth of a pool, etc). If you're going melee intensive, go wildshape instead. Ranged: Sling. up to you if you want to go magical here. There you go. Feel free to ask anything if they're not clear...
Xykon 08-11-05, 02:59 AM	About your custom necklace (12,000 gp)... Other than comprehend ppl and animals, is there anything else it does? Or is it a DM *required* item that you should buy? If not, um i think you got ripped off... There's a Helm of Comprehend Languages and Read Magic which does more and costs a measly 5,200 gp plus got some extra nifty features too :eek: Helm of Comprehend Languages and Read Magic Appearing as a normal helmet, a helm of comprehend languages and read magic grants its wearer the ability to understand the spoken words of any creature and to read text in any language and any magical writing. The wearer gains a +5 competence bonus on Decipher Script checks to understand messages written in incomplete, archaic, or exotic forms. Note that understanding a magical text does not necessarily imply spell use. Edit: Forget this post. The necklace allows him to comprehend and *SPEAK* with ppl and animals
LordKiwi 08-11-05, 05:11 AM	First one is... Extend Spell Sudden Maximize Rashemi Elemental Summoning +one other feat (Natural Bond / Sudden Empower spell whichever is better) I'm probably biast against summoning a bit but I'd say this has the most potential. Generally the Sudden feats are underpowered (unless you find the correct spells) and extend and sudden maximise are probably enough for a general druid. If you want more metamagic, look at Born of Three Thunders. My advice if you go this route is to opt for Natural Bond. This will allow you to take a 10HD tiger as an animal companion. More specifically, choose the following feats for it... Power Attack, Improved Bullrush, Knockback & Shocktrooper ...which makes it great for both damage dealing and battlefield control. At level 12 look to Extraordinary Consentration as a good feat, keeping in mind your maximised call lighning storms require consentration to call lightning from. Look at the rules for this yourself, and possably ask your GM if he think it'll work, the rules aren't too clear. This gives you an impressive list of options on the battlefield. Summon Elementals to start then begin blasting (Maximised Lightning Storm, Flame Strike or Quill Blast). If the enemy get close send the tiger to charge them and bullrush them away (Knockback, Stormtrooper), or if you get bogged down your wildshape will be able to hold its own in melee. At level 12 you can wade into melee while still calling lightning from the sky! The build also has stamina, you only need to cast a couple of spells at the start of a day and a couple in each fight to be very effective. Second one would be... Spell focus (conjuration) Augmented Summoning Ashbound Greenbound / RES If you every get to high levels you could always merge the two routes a little by taking Ashbound at leve 15. If you do go this route make sure you study all the monsters you can summon and what they can do. Lord Kiwi,
Funny Slaughter 08-11-05, 06:40 AM	extraordinary concentration is a nice trick in conjunction with lighting storm, there are several other spells that can be used that way, too. about all the options: don't be too confused. your druid is a very powerful character even if you don't use them. wasn't there a feat that allowed you to cast a full-round spell in a standard action? that would be worth it if you summon a lot. gs Funny
LordKiwi 08-11-05, 07:05 AM	wasn't there a feat that allowed you to cast a full-round spell in a standard action? that would be worth it if you summon a lot. Rapid Spell I believe. Lord Kiwi,
Shandrakor 08-11-05, 02:26 PM	If you decide to be a Summoning Druid, talk to your DM and see if you can be a Half-Orc and take the Racial Substitution levels (Races of Destiny). One of them gives you Augment Summoning for free without the need for that icky Spell Focus (Conjuration). I'd dump Greenbound, personally, and focus on the Rashemi. Since you're only going to 15th, Elemental Monoliths aren't going to be a factor. Extraordinary concentration is optional, given your level range.
gunnarr 08-11-05, 02:58 PM	Wow, thanks to everyone for the great replies! (esp. LordKiwi & Xykon for all the effort) LordKiwi, I think the build you gave me would be nice for my char :) because even though my GM is nice, since my group emphasizes roleplaying I was worrying a bit about all those dragon wildshapes and fleshraker animal companion and other non-core things :cool: thank you. Oh and about my armor, I was wondering if using the dragonhide beastplate Xykon explained would be better than using a other wild-attributed armor.. hmm. gotta do some rulebook searching I guess. [Weapons] Melee: Any. You'll hardly use it in melee anyway. I would suggest get a normal spear (10ft reach) in times where you need to poke at something (i.e. checking the depth of a pool, etc). If you're going melee intensive, go wildshape instead. I guess I'll be going legendary ape so I think I'd be using weapons once in a while, and I've read about using Master of Thousand Faces to alter my self into a elf and then wildshaping into a ape to create a havok with a high-str bow (it was a post by Snow Savant I recall) so I might as well find a way to use that too. and Thanks for showing me those nice items :) I guess I'll cry over my DM to allow me to change that neckless of mine into some different slot so I could use a periapt ;) 1. what materials are you allowed? when i say materials i mean what books are allowed or just core rulebooks? 2. Are there any restrictions on uncommon/rare materials? I'm talking about adamantine, mithral, dragon hide, darkwood and cold-iron give me some info My DM allowed me to use almost any other rulebooks too so just in case if you could think of a nice item from them please give me a reply :) If you decide to be a Summoning Druid, talk to your DM and see if you can be a Half-Orc and take the Racial Substitution levels (Races of Destiny). One of them gives you Augment Summoning for free without the need for that icky Spell Focus (Conjuration) I'd like the free Aug summoning but since my party emphasizes roleplaying and I don't think the halforc would fit for my party *sigh* :) still, thanks for all those infos ;) Hew, I guess my druid's finally getting shaped ;) Thank you!
NullAndVoid 08-11-05, 03:21 PM	More specifically, choose the following feats for it... Power Attack, Improved Bullrush, Knockback & ShocktrooperI have seen this talked about a lot (giving Animal companions feats). Can you tell me where the rules are on this? I have never been able to find them.
Lilt 08-11-05, 03:34 PM	1 Druid Improved Initiative, Spell Penetration 2 Druid 3 Druid Extend Spell 4 Wiz Scribe Scroll (Spec school: Conj. Prohibited:Enc/Nec) 5 Wiz 6 Wiz Nature Bond 7 Arcane Hierophant Sadly, you can't take Arcane Hierophant until you have a BAB of +4, that build has +3. Suggested modifications are Druid 3/Wiz 3/MT 2/AH ... or Druid 4/Wiz 3/AH ...
Lilt 08-11-05, 03:38 PM	extraordinary concentration is a nice trick in conjunction with lighting storm, there are several other spells that can be used that way, too.IIRC that idea was discounted because of the wording of Extraordinary Concentration... Calling down a lightning bolt is not "concentrating to maintain a spell" as per the extraordinary concentration wording so it can't be applied.
Blibdoolpoolp 08-11-05, 04:42 PM	I guess I'll be going legendary ape so I think I'd be using weapons once in a while, and I've read about using Master of Thousand Faces to alter my self into a elf and then wildshaping into a ape to create a havok with a high-str bow (it was a post by Snow Savant I recall) so I might as well find a way to use that too. You might have a hard time convincing your DM to allow this. Good luck. :88E:
LordKiwi 08-12-05, 03:47 AM	I have seen this talked about a lot (giving Animal companions feats). Can you tell me where the rules are on this? I have never been able to find them. Animal Companions have HD, HD grant feats. The GM I play under usualy allows people to choose all the feats for their animal companions not just the those gained from bonus HD. Justification can probably be found in the Monster Manual somewhere, as the feats listed for creatures aren't fixed, just the sugested ones. IIRC that idea was discounted because of the wording of Extraordinary Concentration... Calling down a lightning bolt is not "concentrating to maintain a spell" as per the extraordinary concentration wording so it can't be applied. Personally, as a GM I'd let that slide. Best to ask the GM running the game for a ruling on it. In any case, it could still be a useful feat... Elemental Monoliths for example. LordKiwi, I think the build you gave me would be nice for my char :) because even though my GM is nice, since my group emphasizes roleplaying I was worrying a bit about all those dragon wildshapes and fleshraker animal companion and other non-core things :cool: thank you. The idea that rules preclude roleplaying is a bit of a myth, but I know what you mean. I've only recently become interested in building druids and they really don't need anything more than Core + Complete to do. As for equipment, I feel other people are better suited to helping you on that one. Lord Kiwi,
Sang-Drax 08-12-05, 05:39 AM	I think Extraordinary Concentration + Call Lightning is a nice trick, and not cheesy or munchkin at all. I mean, its legallity is questionable, but, like Lord Kiwi, I'd easily let that one slide. Keep in mind that the concentration DCs are pretty high, and really, if the cleric can cast implosion as a swift action with this spell, why not the druid casting call lightning? I'm not trying to start a discussion over here, mostly because I don't think it's legal anyway... but I would at least house rule that. Gunnar, if you're going Legendary Ape, always wield a Spiked staff. You might as well buy a Lesser Rod of Extend spell for your Spikes and Creeping Cold spells and save a feat ;) And what is this elemental monolith?
Shandrakor 08-13-05, 02:33 AM	Gunnar, if you're going Legendary Ape, always wield a Spiked staff. You might as well buy a Lesser Rod of Extend spell for your Spikes and Creeping Cold spells and save a feat ;) There are groups that prefer Shillelaghed Spiked Brambeled Clubs, but that's up to you. I prefer a magical base weapon, myself, though a VoP druid should always choose the aforementioned option. And what is this elemental monolith? The greatest elementals ever; from Complete Arcane. Practically Primals, though useable pre-Epic. Take a gander at them -- they require concentration, and I've yet to meet a Summoner who didn't think having at least one (now 2, with Extraordinary Concentration) available was a good idea. IDHMBWMATM, but they're practically the last critters there, just before all that fluff about 'Arcane Campaigns' and whatnot. (Probably before the templates too...)
gunnarr 08-18-05, 11:35 AM	:) thanks to everyone's help and support, I really had fun in my first trpg experience and really found my character enjoyable. (And sadly for my DM, obviously he didn't expected a newbie druid to be much of a strength and sent in a bunch of melee-oriented enemies, heh) And since he gave me a privilage which allowed me to change any things I would like to change in my char. I have few things I would like to ask. I made my animal companion a tiger (umm.. with "magebred" template :rolleyes: ) but I couldn't find the knockback feat which LordKiwi mentioned. My advice if you go this route is to opt for Natural Bond. This will allow you to take a 10HD tiger as an animal companion. More specifically, choose the following feats for it... Power Attack, Improved Bullrush, Knockback & Shocktrooper ...which makes it great for both damage dealing and battlefield control. It'd be nice if someone could tell me where I can find the feat or tell me what the feat does ;) And can my Tiger do a full attack in the turn which it did bullrush or do I have to spend a full turn doing the bullrush manuever? I also have a little question about SNA. the rulebook states that the summoned creature acts on the druid's turn, but does it mean that the animal can move/fight on the same turn it was summoned? Gunnar, if you're going Legendary Ape, always wield a Spiked staff. You might as well buy a Lesser Rod of Extend spell for your Spikes and Creeping Cold spells and save a feat There are groups that prefer Shillelaghed Spiked Brambeled Clubs, but that's up to you. I prefer a magical base weapon, myself, though a VoP druid should always choose the aforementioned option. Lastly, Is there a difference between a Spiked Staffed and umm the beefed up club? I'll be waiting for your kind reply Thanks for the support! :)
Funny Slaughter 08-18-05, 01:49 PM	I also have a little question about SNA. the rulebook states that the summoned creature acts on the druid's turn, but does it mean that the animal can move/fight on the same turn it was summoned? SNA is a full round action. means your summoned companions attack in the round after you casted the spell. except: you use rapid spell. summoning in a standard action and attacking at once. golden. gs Funny
LordKiwi 08-19-05, 09:16 AM	I made my animal companion a tiger (umm.. with "magebred" template :rolleyes: ) but I couldn't find the knockback feat which LordKiwi mentioned. It'd be nice if someone could tell me where I can find the feat or tell me what the feat does ;) Knockback is in races of stone and allows PA damage bonus to apply to bullrush checks, as well as a free bullrush on a sucefful attack. And can my Tiger do a full attack in the turn which it did bullrush or do I have to spend a full turn doing the bullrush manuever? Normally, it's Bullrush or Attack. With the knockback feat you can do both :) assuming you hit. I also have a little question about SNA. the rulebook states that the summoned creature acts on the druid's turn, but does it mean that the animal can move/fight on the same turn it was summoned? Yes they can, but it take an entire round to summon them so they appear at the start of your next turn, not in the urn when you started casting. Lord Kiwi,