An Illusionist That Needs Help [Archive] - Wizards Community

An Illusionist That Needs Help [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
morganm
02-09-06, 05:55 PM Level 3 Gnome Illusionist
2nd Edition

Need some help with thinking up good illusions. I've never played a mage; let alone a specialty mage: illusionist. Played my share of warriors and clerics; they are more straight forward. Slash and bash or cast the spell and read what it does. Illusion spells like Improved Phantasmal Force are very ambigouse; there are limitations and boundries but what you create as the actual illusion is upto you.

Here are the spells I currently have that I need help with:
Audible Glamer
Change Self
Phantasmal Force
Improved Phantasmal Force
Spectral Force

While I can think of some basic ideas and things to do. I would like the advice of some more learned than I. What are some great illusions; both in combat and out of combat? How about some good ones that force a save vs death system shock role? Ones that are very 'belivable'? How about techniques on how to use them in a group setting where I don't necisarrily want to hurt my fellow group members but want it to be effective against my foes?

Please let your sage wisdom befall me; thank you :)
morganm
02-10-06, 02:25 PM Anyone???? :(
Jaisin
02-10-06, 03:07 PM Playing an effective Illusionist depends a lot on how effective your DM is, and how willing he is to work with you on making you a success.

There are many good possibilities, and while I don't have a 2E PHB in front of me, there are a lot of good things that you can do with your spells as listed.

Change Self will allow you to grow up to a foot taller, but nothing specific,(IIRC), and change your features and clothing. You can use it to become a like creature for scouting enemy camps, or fool some enemies if you are fleeing the scene of a crime or escaping from anywhere - gnome going in, dwarf coming out, where'd the gnome go?

Audible glamour is very effective for helping to back up what you say in the moment of a stand off, or causing a distraction loud enough to deter any pursuers. In a pinch, you can possibly scare some larger groups of intelligent humanoids by providing the approaching noise of 4-12 men on horseback, maybe making them balk at attacking or even entering an area. Likewise, making ghost/scary sounds to deter someone from following you into a graveyard is sometimes much better than facing them with your darts (you DID pick darts as your single weapon proficiency, didn't you?)

Phantasmal Force in conjunction with Audible Glamour can make for some very convincing illusions, providing another sensory element. Everyone is afraid of elves moving quickly in the forest, mostly hidden, bows at the ready - a couple of dark streaks, coupled with some glint as though off of arrow heads could certainly cause someone to balk at attacking their friend. This one is better if planned for accordingly, as you can't move or the spell ends. Make your party the front-men, cast from secret, and adjust as they talk. The Improved version is similar, but you can move at half speed.

Spectral Force (a 3rd level spell you shouldn't have access to at 3rd level), 1/2 speed, concentration + 3 rounds, sound, smell and thermal(?) can create a really good illusion for all sorts of good fun.

If your DM is allowing a system shock roll vs. your illusions at 3rd level, Illusion is way overpowered. Phantasmal Killer is a 4th level spell that is similar to that effect, and you've got 4 more levels to go, though you've got to get over the hump to 4th level (5,000 to 10,0000 is a big jump, but the next levels are a good progression for wizards - 20,000, 40,000, 60,000, 90,000, 135,000; much faster than most classes except Druid and Thief/Bard).

Get a war dog. Buy scrolls/learn Enlarge and cast it on your Fighter.

The kit Imagemaker from the Complete Book of Gnomes and Halflings gives some incredible abilities with illusions like the ones you know - all illusions last a lot longer after concentration ceases, an additional -2 to enemy saves vs. your illusions, the use of some specialized equipment, and most importantly - NO ONE is immune to your illusions - EVERYONE must save to disbelieve, including dragons and other highly intelligent beings (19+).

If you can change to be a svirfneblin, the MR, the natural AC, and the weapons availability are awesome. Not to mention the radiation of a continuous non-detection spell. A Svirfneblin Imagemaker at any level is quite a powerhouse.

Sorry about the lack of save or die illusions - at this point, you're a support character and a track-coverer. Illusions in combat - make up some mean fighters and put them at the front of the line flanking your real fighters, one stroke and their gone, but it will cause your enemies to waste shots, and turns in trying to diselieve everything.

Happy Killing :dancin:
Mistwell
02-10-06, 03:52 PM 2nd Edition

It's that part that is throwing people...
morganm
02-10-06, 04:21 PM My DM is very flexible and willing to work with me as long as we arent breaking rules. After all its about having fun and our whole part + DM are all good friends. However he's not letting us do kit classes; so no super elite Svirfneblin Imagemaker you were explaining. :(

He didnt seem to keen on the whole system shock but I dont think he was familiar with the rules around it so I'll have to get him upto speed on that and then I think he'll be more open to this. I really doubt I could get a system shock out of Improved Phantasmal Force; that was more for later when I can use Spectral Force.

I didnt take dart but rather sling; bad choice? You're right though; I can't use Spectral Force or Invis 10' Radius yet. My DM told me to pick two spells from lvl 3; more for in preperation than antyhing. Since we dont automaticly learn spells just because we level up; we must aquire them and attempt to learn them within the campaign. So when I finally can use lvl 3 spells I wont be totally SOL untill I find some; I'll atleast have 2 spells to use. However from then on we gotta find what we can for new spells.

Thank you for your ideas. They are helpfull to me. It really is a tough class to play so far. I find in the heat of the moment (combat or tense dialog situations) I'm just not witty enough to think of very efective ways to use my character to it's full potential. Thats why I seek help here.

I like that idea with change self. I happen to be working closely with another character in my group, an elvin thief, as our character storyline was that we were a thieving duo before meeting this group and our chaotic/neutral allignemnts dont really go well with the goody-goody-two-shoes in our group. Some other ideas about how I can assist him and we can work together to be better thieves would be greatly utilized :D

Thank you.
morganm
02-10-06, 04:23 PM It's that part that is throwing people...
I wonderd if that was an issue here. After reading a bunch of threads it seems 2nd Edition was left in the dust for 3 and 3.5 :( I feel so.... old... now :P We didnt want to play 3rd Edition because we have tons of material for 2E and already have plenty of experience palying 2E between us all.

Are the spells I list here not in 3rd Edition?
Jaisin
02-13-06, 10:10 AM Nope, not all.

A couple of other things you'll want to consider for your 2E illusionist:

1) Downtime is vitally important to mages and specialty wizards in 2E. You need spells like mend and armor and if you have the Wizard's Spell Compendiums for 2E, you'll want a couple of other spells - phantasmal armor and damage mirror. Look for spells that have durations of "special" and then read the descriptions for ones that last until discharged. Your thief is going to love you for casting armor on him, giving AC 6 with no penalties to his thieving skills, and it lasts until he takes 9hp+ damage. Don't waste a daily slot on the spell, cast it in your downtimes - and on yourself too. The other spell, phantasmal armor has a couple of REALLY useful abilities IIRC - it lasts just like the armor spell, ABSORBS 6hp+1per level, and grants AC 3 instead of 6. The flaw is, it doesn't work against magical weapons, and outlines you in ghostly plate mail armor so people can see that you're enchanted. But it can operate at the same time as armor, in effect giving you (and your thief buddy) AC 3 vs. regular attacks and absorption of some damage, and AC 6 vs. magical weapons.

Also in downtime, if you can pair with a blacksmith who's overworked, your mend spell gets the job done in seconds on mundane items, including antiques vases and other things stupid servants break (where they'd take broken pottery is unknown to me, though). Negotiate price with the Blacksmith, and earn some extra cash to purchase spells from other casters (rule of thumb, 250gp/level of spell, or like exchange). mend also helps your friends in a pinch. Key to success - if your DM allows you to purchase some magical items, either from NPCs or shops, EARN MONEY in your downtime, don't let it slip. If you always make a note to do these things, its easier for your DM to say "okay, okay, you cast Armor on everyone over the next couple of days, mend some weapons and plows, and *rolls* you earn 134gp - now moving on. . . "

It is vitally important that when you adventure you use your spell slots for adventuring spells and not for things you can cast at other times.

Damage mirror is like a 2nd level fire shield - someone attacks you, you take damage, they save vs. spell or take the same amount of damage - spell expended.

2) Sling isn't bad, you still get 2 attacks a round with it, IIRC, and its cheap. Darts are cheap, but you get 3 attacks a round for 1 die less damage (1d3 vs. 1d4+1 for bullets). You are not a melee attacker, but you want probability on your side. Besides, you should be getting a bonus from your DEX for your missile weapons, and thrown weapons gain bonus damage from STR, if any (all of your other scores had better be better than 16 before you put a 16 in STR as a wizard in 2E).

3) Learn charm spells. Charm person at low levels is your best friend - All it takes is one casting on a friendly guard or traveler who wears armor, and now you've got the best armor of all - someone else! friends and forget allow you to get the best deal out of someone and then they don't have to remember anything about it. Forget also helps with getting past a single guard - he just won't remember the last 2 minutes or so, which is just enough time for you to approach him and leave - its like deleting part of the security camera tape.

4) Sleep and Taunt are great low-level spells - there is no save for Sleep for people under a certain HD. Taunt is a great way to take out another low-level caster - he'll rush towards you with his dagger instead of throwing it or casting spells, focusing intently and solely on you - your charmed bodyguard (that you charmed during downtime - lasts days!) whacks him in the back with a big sword and then there's no more caster.

5) If you need more help with 2E, email me, or PM me - I've got decades worth of fun tricks for 2E wizards.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
morganm 02-09-06, 05:55 PM	Level 3 Gnome Illusionist 2nd Edition Need some help with thinking up good illusions. I've never played a mage; let alone a specialty mage: illusionist. Played my share of warriors and clerics; they are more straight forward. Slash and bash or cast the spell and read what it does. Illusion spells like Improved Phantasmal Force are very ambigouse; there are limitations and boundries but what you create as the actual illusion is upto you. Here are the spells I currently have that I need help with: Audible Glamer Change Self Phantasmal Force Improved Phantasmal Force Spectral Force While I can think of some basic ideas and things to do. I would like the advice of some more learned than I. What are some great illusions; both in combat and out of combat? How about some good ones that force a save vs death system shock role? Ones that are very 'belivable'? How about techniques on how to use them in a group setting where I don't necisarrily want to hurt my fellow group members but want it to be effective against my foes? Please let your sage wisdom befall me; thank you :)
morganm 02-10-06, 02:25 PM	Anyone???? :(
Jaisin 02-10-06, 03:07 PM	Playing an effective Illusionist depends a lot on how effective your DM is, and how willing he is to work with you on making you a success. There are many good possibilities, and while I don't have a 2E PHB in front of me, there are a lot of good things that you can do with your spells as listed. Change Self will allow you to grow up to a foot taller, but nothing specific,(IIRC), and change your features and clothing. You can use it to become a like creature for scouting enemy camps, or fool some enemies if you are fleeing the scene of a crime or escaping from anywhere - gnome going in, dwarf coming out, where'd the gnome go? Audible glamour is very effective for helping to back up what you say in the moment of a stand off, or causing a distraction loud enough to deter any pursuers. In a pinch, you can possibly scare some larger groups of intelligent humanoids by providing the approaching noise of 4-12 men on horseback, maybe making them balk at attacking or even entering an area. Likewise, making ghost/scary sounds to deter someone from following you into a graveyard is sometimes much better than facing them with your darts (you DID pick darts as your single weapon proficiency, didn't you?) Phantasmal Force in conjunction with Audible Glamour can make for some very convincing illusions, providing another sensory element. Everyone is afraid of elves moving quickly in the forest, mostly hidden, bows at the ready - a couple of dark streaks, coupled with some glint as though off of arrow heads could certainly cause someone to balk at attacking their friend. This one is better if planned for accordingly, as you can't move or the spell ends. Make your party the front-men, cast from secret, and adjust as they talk. The Improved version is similar, but you can move at half speed. Spectral Force (a 3rd level spell you shouldn't have access to at 3rd level), 1/2 speed, concentration + 3 rounds, sound, smell and thermal(?) can create a really good illusion for all sorts of good fun. If your DM is allowing a system shock roll vs. your illusions at 3rd level, Illusion is way overpowered. Phantasmal Killer is a 4th level spell that is similar to that effect, and you've got 4 more levels to go, though you've got to get over the hump to 4th level (5,000 to 10,0000 is a big jump, but the next levels are a good progression for wizards - 20,000, 40,000, 60,000, 90,000, 135,000; much faster than most classes except Druid and Thief/Bard). Get a war dog. Buy scrolls/learn Enlarge and cast it on your Fighter. The kit Imagemaker from the Complete Book of Gnomes and Halflings gives some incredible abilities with illusions like the ones you know - all illusions last a lot longer after concentration ceases, an additional -2 to enemy saves vs. your illusions, the use of some specialized equipment, and most importantly - NO ONE is immune to your illusions - EVERYONE must save to disbelieve, including dragons and other highly intelligent beings (19+). If you can change to be a svirfneblin, the MR, the natural AC, and the weapons availability are awesome. Not to mention the radiation of a continuous non-detection spell. A Svirfneblin Imagemaker at any level is quite a powerhouse. Sorry about the lack of save or die illusions - at this point, you're a support character and a track-coverer. Illusions in combat - make up some mean fighters and put them at the front of the line flanking your real fighters, one stroke and their gone, but it will cause your enemies to waste shots, and turns in trying to diselieve everything. Happy Killing :dancin:
Mistwell 02-10-06, 03:52 PM	2nd Edition It's that part that is throwing people...
morganm 02-10-06, 04:21 PM	My DM is very flexible and willing to work with me as long as we arent breaking rules. After all its about having fun and our whole part + DM are all good friends. However he's not letting us do kit classes; so no super elite Svirfneblin Imagemaker you were explaining. :( He didnt seem to keen on the whole system shock but I dont think he was familiar with the rules around it so I'll have to get him upto speed on that and then I think he'll be more open to this. I really doubt I could get a system shock out of Improved Phantasmal Force; that was more for later when I can use Spectral Force. I didnt take dart but rather sling; bad choice? You're right though; I can't use Spectral Force or Invis 10' Radius yet. My DM told me to pick two spells from lvl 3; more for in preperation than antyhing. Since we dont automaticly learn spells just because we level up; we must aquire them and attempt to learn them within the campaign. So when I finally can use lvl 3 spells I wont be totally SOL untill I find some; I'll atleast have 2 spells to use. However from then on we gotta find what we can for new spells. Thank you for your ideas. They are helpfull to me. It really is a tough class to play so far. I find in the heat of the moment (combat or tense dialog situations) I'm just not witty enough to think of very efective ways to use my character to it's full potential. Thats why I seek help here. I like that idea with change self. I happen to be working closely with another character in my group, an elvin thief, as our character storyline was that we were a thieving duo before meeting this group and our chaotic/neutral allignemnts dont really go well with the goody-goody-two-shoes in our group. Some other ideas about how I can assist him and we can work together to be better thieves would be greatly utilized :D Thank you.
morganm 02-10-06, 04:23 PM	It's that part that is throwing people... I wonderd if that was an issue here. After reading a bunch of threads it seems 2nd Edition was left in the dust for 3 and 3.5 :( I feel so.... old... now :P We didnt want to play 3rd Edition because we have tons of material for 2E and already have plenty of experience palying 2E between us all. Are the spells I list here not in 3rd Edition?
Jaisin 02-13-06, 10:10 AM	Nope, not all. A couple of other things you'll want to consider for your 2E illusionist: 1) Downtime is vitally important to mages and specialty wizards in 2E. You need spells like mend and armor and if you have the Wizard's Spell Compendiums for 2E, you'll want a couple of other spells - phantasmal armor and damage mirror. Look for spells that have durations of "special" and then read the descriptions for ones that last until discharged. Your thief is going to love you for casting armor on him, giving AC 6 with no penalties to his thieving skills, and it lasts until he takes 9hp+ damage. Don't waste a daily slot on the spell, cast it in your downtimes - and on yourself too. The other spell, phantasmal armor has a couple of REALLY useful abilities IIRC - it lasts just like the armor spell, ABSORBS 6hp+1per level, and grants AC 3 instead of 6. The flaw is, it doesn't work against magical weapons, and outlines you in ghostly plate mail armor so people can see that you're enchanted. But it can operate at the same time as armor, in effect giving you (and your thief buddy) AC 3 vs. regular attacks and absorption of some damage, and AC 6 vs. magical weapons. Also in downtime, if you can pair with a blacksmith who's overworked, your mend spell gets the job done in seconds on mundane items, including antiques vases and other things stupid servants break (where they'd take broken pottery is unknown to me, though). Negotiate price with the Blacksmith, and earn some extra cash to purchase spells from other casters (rule of thumb, 250gp/level of spell, or like exchange). mend also helps your friends in a pinch. Key to success - if your DM allows you to purchase some magical items, either from NPCs or shops, EARN MONEY in your downtime, don't let it slip. If you always make a note to do these things, its easier for your DM to say "okay, okay, you cast Armor on everyone over the next couple of days, mend some weapons and plows, and rolls you earn 134gp - now moving on. . . " It is vitally important that when you adventure you use your spell slots for adventuring spells and not for things you can cast at other times. Damage mirror is like a 2nd level fire shield - someone attacks you, you take damage, they save vs. spell or take the same amount of damage - spell expended. 2) Sling isn't bad, you still get 2 attacks a round with it, IIRC, and its cheap. Darts are cheap, but you get 3 attacks a round for 1 die less damage (1d3 vs. 1d4+1 for bullets). You are not a melee attacker, but you want probability on your side. Besides, you should be getting a bonus from your DEX for your missile weapons, and thrown weapons gain bonus damage from STR, if any (all of your other scores had better be better than 16 before you put a 16 in STR as a wizard in 2E). 3) Learn charm spells. Charm person at low levels is your best friend - All it takes is one casting on a friendly guard or traveler who wears armor, and now you've got the best armor of all - someone else! friends and forget allow you to get the best deal out of someone and then they don't have to remember anything about it. Forget also helps with getting past a single guard - he just won't remember the last 2 minutes or so, which is just enough time for you to approach him and leave - its like deleting part of the security camera tape. 4) Sleep and Taunt are great low-level spells - there is no save for Sleep for people under a certain HD. Taunt is a great way to take out another low-level caster - he'll rush towards you with his dagger instead of throwing it or casting spells, focusing intently and solely on you - your charmed bodyguard (that you charmed during downtime - lasts days!) whacks him in the back with a big sword and then there's no more caster. 5) If you need more help with 2E, email me, or PM me - I've got decades worth of fun tricks for 2E wizards.