An odd optimization... [Archive] - Wizards Community

An odd optimization... [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Valanthe
06-09-06, 04:51 PM Here's a fun one. I currently have a game where my character is a Ghoul Cleric with a Wizard Cohort, at least, that's what I'm thinking of having.

Here's the catch. The cohort's going to be a Vampire.

Now, we have a +0 LA adjustment template for Vampires, but they still have the weakness of being destroyed by sunlight, just as the normal Vampire template.

Obviously, I'd like for my Cohort to be able to follow me around. What's the most optimal way of keeping her around?

Technically she already has 4 Wizard levels, and has just leveled, so the 5th level doesn't have to be Wizard, but I don't see a better option.

At worst, I can replace her with another class, but I still want the Vampire Cohort...

Any ideas?
Zendu
06-09-06, 04:53 PM Beg your dm to make a 'contiunal shadow' spell similar to continual flame, so the vampire isnt in direct sunlight?
Valanthe
06-09-06, 06:28 PM I need something that doesn't require the making up of new spells, if possible.
catharz
06-09-06, 06:33 PM Get a hearse, or if you can afford it Portable Hole.
Valanthe
06-09-06, 06:47 PM Get a hearse, or if you can afford it Portable Hole.

Where does one find a hearse?
Karm Hundredfists
06-09-06, 06:56 PM At the coroner...

What about some sort of extremely high CL permanent casting of darkness? Fight in the underdark? I don't know...
belthazzar1113
06-09-06, 07:01 PM OotS

Large pink umbrella seems to keep pure darkness covering the monster. should work for your vampire.

otherwize strap some wheels on a coffin and drag his ass around. that or vampires can take gaseous form, so put him in a stoppered bottle with some grave dirt in the bottom. genies lamp anyone?
Valanthe
06-09-06, 07:19 PM Oh... I thought you were saying there were rules for a hearse in game. I suppose I could make a makeshit one out of a wagon or something like that... we'll have to see about that one.

I suppose dragging around a coffin would work. I'd like the Wizard to be able to help fight though, that's the whole point of me getting the cohort in the first place. Stopper idea doesn't work, this Vampire template doesn't have the ability of gaseous form.

Basically, this Vampire template just has the bloodsucking aspect of the Vampire. That's really about it.

Here, I'll give my best idea.

Would an item of persistant darkness work?

And would it cost... 12,000 GP?
(2(spell level) * 3(caster level) * 2000)

What about making it from a warlock instead...
(2(spell level) * 1(caster level) * 2000) = 4,000 GP?
Quenditar
06-09-06, 08:51 PM I think what you want is an item using the Blacklight spell, which unfortunately by my calculations would cost (3*5*2000*4)=120,000 gp, which is absolutely ridiculous for an item that just creates mobile darkness. See if you can talk your DM into an 80-90% discount if you make it in the form of a large pink umbrella.
Valanthe
06-09-06, 10:21 PM DM doesn't read OOTS...
swanyusd
06-09-06, 10:32 PM Double post
swanyusd
06-09-06, 10:33 PM I suppose I could make a makeshit one out of a wagon or something like that

Priceless...

Anyway, I think a portable hole is your best bet here. Just use dirt from his home or whatever the rule is, and its a great transport/coffin that folds up and fits in your pack/robes. If you have the spell compendium, they have a spell that allows vampires to walk around in light. Its also located in the Lords of Darkness book (FR setting book). Its a 4th level cleric spell I think.

-Swany
Azoriel
06-09-06, 10:47 PM I second Swany's suggestion of the portable hole: easy to carry, plus fairly spacious on the inside. Since your cohort is undead, you won't need to worry about her suffocating either.

If you don't mind being conspicuous, there's always the "deeper darkness" spell from the PHB; it's a 3rd level cleric spell, lasts 1 day per caster level, and will make sure everything stays shadowy where she goes. (If you want to sneak around with her, you can always shove her in the portable hole to keep the darkness from radiating.)
Valanthe
06-10-06, 12:07 AM Hmmm... okay. Thanks for the help.

Is there a reason the darkness spell doesn't work?
Sithobi1
06-10-06, 12:16 AM Short duration. Too short.
Valanthe
06-10-06, 02:22 PM So why doesn't an item of permanent darkness work?
lostone
06-12-06, 09:20 AM A couple comments.

I know you like the theme of it, but vampire spellcasters tend to be a bad idea, that +8 LA is a severe limitation on what spells they can cast.

However, since it seems you're going for cool rather than optimized (which is just fine in my book), there was a magic item in one of the FR books (can't recall which for sure, perhaps Underdark) that was silver-lensed goggles. IIRC they gave a vampire a limited amount of time (a few rounds) to get out of sunlight before suffering the effects. That is enough time to cast a darkness spell, teleport, etc.

Another alternative is the Lords of Darkness book has a magical weapon enhancement: smoking. It basically gives the character cover (presumably enough to block sunlight). The 5ft square they're in fills with smoke, but does not hinder the wielder of the weapon in any way. Put that on the vampire's staff weapon, or dagger, or whatever.
Valanthe
06-12-06, 07:03 PM I'm not that desperate... we're playing with a Vampire template that has a +0 level adjustment. Doesn't really have any advantages... gives the undead type, a few stat bonuses, costs a lot, but most importantly, gives bloodsucking. Of course, sunlight vulnerability is terrible, but those are some really good ideas. I'll have to look into them.
Kresalak
06-12-06, 09:56 PM If you have Peristant Spell and Divine Metamagic (Persistant), throw up a Persistant Darkness at the beginning of each day.
Valanthe
06-12-06, 10:03 PM If you have Peristant Spell and Divine Metamagic (Persistant), throw up a Persistant Darkness at the beginning of each day.

So an item of Darkness would work as well?
Kresalak
06-12-06, 10:21 PM Yeah, but it would cost a lot more.
Valanthe
06-12-06, 11:24 PM True, but I have gold now. I don't have Extend Spell, Persistant Spell, or Divine Metamagic. Meaning my Vampire cohort doesn't get to join me for another 8 levels. It's a good idea, I'll certainly work towards it. I'm just trying to get some kind of solution for the short term at least.
neth2
06-12-06, 11:36 PM first off
why is a vampire following around a ghoul

second off, check this thread out
http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=651564
Sithobi1
06-13-06, 12:23 AM There's a Dark Lantern in Tome of Magic under the Shadow Magic section which costs 2000 gp.
IceFractal
06-13-06, 03:44 AM There's a cantrip in BoVD called "No Light", which is basically like Darkness, but a smaller area, and it creates nonmagical darkness (actually better for you, because you can see through it fine). An item that granted it continuously would be quite cheap.
lostone
06-13-06, 07:38 AM I'm not that desperate... we're playing with a Vampire template that has a +0 level adjustment. :uh-huh: Where are you getting this from? Homebrew template? The undead type itself is worth a +1 LA (don't point to the Necropolitan, as that causes you to lose a class level instead of giving LA, so it isn't really +0 LA).
Valanthe
06-13-06, 11:08 PM :uh-huh: Where are you getting this from? Homebrew template? The undead type itself is worth a +1 LA (don't point to the Necropolitan, as that causes you to lose a class level instead of giving LA, so it isn't really +0 LA).

Undead template that is destroyed when exposed to sunlight. Seems a fair trade off.
UMiskatonic
06-14-06, 12:45 AM Just get a bag of holding. It's not like the cohort needs to breathe, or eat, or any of that. When the sun goes down, let him out.

And just in case you get jumped by Pelorites, have a darkness spell ready.
pvrhye
06-14-06, 03:13 AM Instead of a wizard you should make your cohort a psion. Then at higher levels it can fuse with you during the day and leave at night (Which seems cool to me).
lostone
06-14-06, 07:49 AM Undead template that is destroyed when exposed to sunlight. Seems a fair trade off.Good point. Is it straight "sunlight hits you, you're dead" or is it "sunlight touches you, take xd6 damage"?
Valanthe
06-14-06, 11:05 AM You get a round of being staggered, then you're gone.

Anyways, no psionics. Thought of the bag of holding, but I'd like the cohort to be able to participate during the day.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Valanthe 06-09-06, 04:51 PM	Here's a fun one. I currently have a game where my character is a Ghoul Cleric with a Wizard Cohort, at least, that's what I'm thinking of having. Here's the catch. The cohort's going to be a Vampire. Now, we have a +0 LA adjustment template for Vampires, but they still have the weakness of being destroyed by sunlight, just as the normal Vampire template. Obviously, I'd like for my Cohort to be able to follow me around. What's the most optimal way of keeping her around? Technically she already has 4 Wizard levels, and has just leveled, so the 5th level doesn't have to be Wizard, but I don't see a better option. At worst, I can replace her with another class, but I still want the Vampire Cohort... Any ideas?
Zendu 06-09-06, 04:53 PM	Beg your dm to make a 'contiunal shadow' spell similar to continual flame, so the vampire isnt in direct sunlight?
Valanthe 06-09-06, 06:28 PM	I need something that doesn't require the making up of new spells, if possible.
catharz 06-09-06, 06:33 PM	Get a hearse, or if you can afford it Portable Hole.
Valanthe 06-09-06, 06:47 PM	Get a hearse, or if you can afford it Portable Hole. Where does one find a hearse?
Karm Hundredfists 06-09-06, 06:56 PM	At the coroner... What about some sort of extremely high CL permanent casting of darkness? Fight in the underdark? I don't know...
belthazzar1113 06-09-06, 07:01 PM	OotS Large pink umbrella seems to keep pure darkness covering the monster. should work for your vampire. otherwize strap some wheels on a coffin and drag his ass around. that or vampires can take gaseous form, so put him in a stoppered bottle with some grave dirt in the bottom. genies lamp anyone?
Valanthe 06-09-06, 07:19 PM	Oh... I thought you were saying there were rules for a hearse in game. I suppose I could make a makeshit one out of a wagon or something like that... we'll have to see about that one. I suppose dragging around a coffin would work. I'd like the Wizard to be able to help fight though, that's the whole point of me getting the cohort in the first place. Stopper idea doesn't work, this Vampire template doesn't have the ability of gaseous form. Basically, this Vampire template just has the bloodsucking aspect of the Vampire. That's really about it. Here, I'll give my best idea. Would an item of persistant darkness work? And would it cost... 12,000 GP? (2(spell level) * 3(caster level) * 2000) What about making it from a warlock instead... (2(spell level) * 1(caster level) * 2000) = 4,000 GP?
Quenditar 06-09-06, 08:51 PM	I think what you want is an item using the Blacklight spell, which unfortunately by my calculations would cost (352000*4)=120,000 gp, which is absolutely ridiculous for an item that just creates mobile darkness. See if you can talk your DM into an 80-90% discount if you make it in the form of a large pink umbrella.
Valanthe 06-09-06, 10:21 PM	DM doesn't read OOTS...
swanyusd 06-09-06, 10:32 PM	Double post
swanyusd 06-09-06, 10:33 PM	I suppose I could make a makeshit one out of a wagon or something like that Priceless... Anyway, I think a portable hole is your best bet here. Just use dirt from his home or whatever the rule is, and its a great transport/coffin that folds up and fits in your pack/robes. If you have the spell compendium, they have a spell that allows vampires to walk around in light. Its also located in the Lords of Darkness book (FR setting book). Its a 4th level cleric spell I think. -Swany
Azoriel 06-09-06, 10:47 PM	I second Swany's suggestion of the portable hole: easy to carry, plus fairly spacious on the inside. Since your cohort is undead, you won't need to worry about her suffocating either. If you don't mind being conspicuous, there's always the "deeper darkness" spell from the PHB; it's a 3rd level cleric spell, lasts 1 day per caster level, and will make sure everything stays shadowy where she goes. (If you want to sneak around with her, you can always shove her in the portable hole to keep the darkness from radiating.)
Valanthe 06-10-06, 12:07 AM	Hmmm... okay. Thanks for the help. Is there a reason the darkness spell doesn't work?
Sithobi1 06-10-06, 12:16 AM	Short duration. Too short.
Valanthe 06-10-06, 02:22 PM	So why doesn't an item of permanent darkness work?
lostone 06-12-06, 09:20 AM	A couple comments. I know you like the theme of it, but vampire spellcasters tend to be a bad idea, that +8 LA is a severe limitation on what spells they can cast. However, since it seems you're going for cool rather than optimized (which is just fine in my book), there was a magic item in one of the FR books (can't recall which for sure, perhaps Underdark) that was silver-lensed goggles. IIRC they gave a vampire a limited amount of time (a few rounds) to get out of sunlight before suffering the effects. That is enough time to cast a darkness spell, teleport, etc. Another alternative is the Lords of Darkness book has a magical weapon enhancement: smoking. It basically gives the character cover (presumably enough to block sunlight). The 5ft square they're in fills with smoke, but does not hinder the wielder of the weapon in any way. Put that on the vampire's staff weapon, or dagger, or whatever.
Valanthe 06-12-06, 07:03 PM	I'm not that desperate... we're playing with a Vampire template that has a +0 level adjustment. Doesn't really have any advantages... gives the undead type, a few stat bonuses, costs a lot, but most importantly, gives bloodsucking. Of course, sunlight vulnerability is terrible, but those are some really good ideas. I'll have to look into them.
Kresalak 06-12-06, 09:56 PM	If you have Peristant Spell and Divine Metamagic (Persistant), throw up a Persistant Darkness at the beginning of each day.
Valanthe 06-12-06, 10:03 PM	If you have Peristant Spell and Divine Metamagic (Persistant), throw up a Persistant Darkness at the beginning of each day. So an item of Darkness would work as well?
Kresalak 06-12-06, 10:21 PM	Yeah, but it would cost a lot more.
Valanthe 06-12-06, 11:24 PM	True, but I have gold now. I don't have Extend Spell, Persistant Spell, or Divine Metamagic. Meaning my Vampire cohort doesn't get to join me for another 8 levels. It's a good idea, I'll certainly work towards it. I'm just trying to get some kind of solution for the short term at least.
neth2 06-12-06, 11:36 PM	first off why is a vampire following around a ghoul second off, check this thread out http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=651564
Sithobi1 06-13-06, 12:23 AM	There's a Dark Lantern in Tome of Magic under the Shadow Magic section which costs 2000 gp.
IceFractal 06-13-06, 03:44 AM	There's a cantrip in BoVD called "No Light", which is basically like Darkness, but a smaller area, and it creates nonmagical darkness (actually better for you, because you can see through it fine). An item that granted it continuously would be quite cheap.
lostone 06-13-06, 07:38 AM	I'm not that desperate... we're playing with a Vampire template that has a +0 level adjustment. :uh-huh: Where are you getting this from? Homebrew template? The undead type itself is worth a +1 LA (don't point to the Necropolitan, as that causes you to lose a class level instead of giving LA, so it isn't really +0 LA).
Valanthe 06-13-06, 11:08 PM	:uh-huh: Where are you getting this from? Homebrew template? The undead type itself is worth a +1 LA (don't point to the Necropolitan, as that causes you to lose a class level instead of giving LA, so it isn't really +0 LA). Undead template that is destroyed when exposed to sunlight. Seems a fair trade off.
UMiskatonic 06-14-06, 12:45 AM	Just get a bag of holding. It's not like the cohort needs to breathe, or eat, or any of that. When the sun goes down, let him out. And just in case you get jumped by Pelorites, have a darkness spell ready.
pvrhye 06-14-06, 03:13 AM	Instead of a wizard you should make your cohort a psion. Then at higher levels it can fuse with you during the day and leave at night (Which seems cool to me).
lostone 06-14-06, 07:49 AM	Undead template that is destroyed when exposed to sunlight. Seems a fair trade off.Good point. Is it straight "sunlight hits you, you're dead" or is it "sunlight touches you, take xd6 damage"?
Valanthe 06-14-06, 11:05 AM	You get a round of being staggered, then you're gone. Anyways, no psionics. Thought of the bag of holding, but I'd like the cohort to be able to participate during the day.