Post/Author/DateTime	Post
fatal error 06-08-04, 02:47 AM	Ok, because i'm really not much a min/maxer, optimizer, power gamer or whatever other titles you guys may have. I would like some help with makin this character. So without further delay i present to you the task i need help with: A level 5 rogue/barbarian. Using 25 point buy, any PHB races, and the standard 9,000 starting gold. So, show me what you can do!
Funny Slaughter 06-08-04, 03:44 AM	hey, thats easy! its rogue1/barbarian1/rogue3 if you want more rage go with extra rage. take the next level as barbarian (uncanny dodge 2) and look out for a PrC or continue with rogue. gs Funny
Dr Durothil 06-08-04, 03:53 AM	Let's try some things out... Strategy: A Rogue-Barbarian's strategy would be to use his fast movement to move around ennemies, get flanking, and then sneak attack. In desperate fights, Rage can save your life. Human Rogue 3/Barbarian 2 Feats: Human - Weapon Focus (Greatsword) (Improved Initiative would be a good pick too) 1st level - Power Attack 3rd level - Cleave Other feats to take later on: Great Cleave, Improved Initiative... Stats: Get a high Strength, a high Constitution, and a decent Dexterity. Example: STR 16 = 15 (8 pts) +1 (from 4th level) DEX 14 (6 pts) CON 15 (8 pts) (increase it to 16 at 8th level) INT 10 (2 pts) WIS 9 (1 pt) CHA 8 Half-Orc Rogue 2/Barbarian 3 Similar to the last one... Taking Half-Orc instead of human is like trading a bonus feat for +2 Strength. I put one more level of barbarian on this one, because I thought it'd feel better, but you can take any another combination if you want. Elf Rogue 3/Barbarian 2 This one would take more time to be powerful, but it could work well. Feats: 1st level - Two-Weapon Fighting (TWF from now on) 3rd level - Weapon Finesse Other feats to take later on: Improved TWF, Greater TWF, Improved Initiative, Weapon Focus & Improved Critical for your weapon of choice. Weapon: two short swords would give you the lowest TWF penalties (-2 on each hand). Two rapiers would give you a nice critical threat of 18-20 (which could become 15-20 with Improved Critical or the Keen magical ability), but your TWF penalties would be -4 on each hand. Stats: Get a high Dex, then raise your Dex higher. Put your second highest score in Constitution and your third one in Strentgh (or Intelligence, if you want to have more skills). Example: STR 10 (2 pts) DEX 18 = 15 (8 pts) +2 (racial) +1 (from 4th level) CON 13 = 15 (8 pts) -2 (racial) (increase it to 14 at 8th level) INT 10 (2 pts) WIS 9 (1 pt) CHA 8 I took for granted that you could only use things from the PHB. If that's not the case, then there are better builds out there. Whatever you do, take Rogue for yor first level, because that will give you more skill points.
Abulafia 06-08-04, 09:50 AM	Funny -- Any reason for rog 1/bbn 1/rog 3 instead of rog 2/bbn 1/rog 2? That second rogue level nets five skill ranks in 8+ skills -- nice for synergy bonuses and PrC requirements. Not that it really matters either way, I guess . . . Fatal -- Rog/Bbn is a pretty generic build platform. Do you have a concept in mind? Check out the faqs for some good build ideas.
lazaruscmii 06-08-04, 10:42 AM	well, I was just about to start a thread about a rogue/barb build, but since there's already one going... My idea was to go spring attack patch, and maximize attacks w/flanking by using a reach weapon and combat expertise. I was thinking something along the lines of: Human, 32pt buy: str: 14 dex:14 con:16 int:14 wis:10 chr:10 1 - Rog1 - dodge, EWP: spiked chain 2 - rog1/bbn1 - rage, fast move 3 - rog2/bbn1 - combat expertise 4 - rog2/bbn1/ftr1 - mobility 5 - rog2/bbn1/ftr2 - spring attack 6 - rog3/bbn1/ftr2 - power attack after that, I figured just keep going with rog. lvls and take a prc later on with +1 bab (and preferably SA progression) to get to +16 BAB by lvl20. not sure what to do for later feats, definitely Imp. initiative, mabye great fortitude to shore up the crappy will save, or even something like extra rage just for kicks. this guy would basically be able to move/tumble into flanking position easily and SA with reach, and also make lots of AOOs on anyone trying to close in. toss in a wand of enlarge person for S***ts and giggles. yes he'll take some skill hits, but should be able to make them up in the later lvls. the real question is what prc to take to get that last +1bab. the idea would be for the final build to look something like rog16/ftr2/bbn1/prc1 OR rog12/ftr2/bbn1/prc5 (will lose more SA dice unless taking a roguelike prc) so the question for the more experienced min/maxxers is - what would be a good way to get to +16 with this build? any ways I could make it better?
rilem 06-08-04, 12:40 PM	Originally posted by lazaruscmii this guy would basically be able to move/tumble into flanking position easily and SA with reach, and also make lots of AOOs on anyone trying to close in.. You don't have Combat Reflexes, and without that feat you can only make one attack of opportunity per round. If you're going Spring Attack, you don't really need to blow a feat on Spiked Chain; you just move where you like, hit 'em and go. Just use a guisarme or glaive and use that feat to take combat reflexes instead. Other notes: Great Fortitude helps your Fortitude Save. You want Iron Will. Rogue 12? You really like that Trap Sense +4, eh? Consider taking Bbn2 (wolf totem) from Unearthed Arcana or the Wolf Berserker Lodge feat from Unapproachable East. Both help with tripping attacks which could help give you some flexibility.
lazaruscmii 06-08-04, 01:18 PM	Originally posted by rilem You don't have Combat Reflexes, and without that feat you can only make one attack of opportunity per round. If you're going Spring Attack, you don't really need to blow a feat on Spiked Chain; you just move where you like, hit 'em and go. Just use a guisarme or glaive and use that feat to take combat reflexes instead. Other notes: Great Fortitude helps your Fortitude Save. You want Iron Will. Rogue 12? You really like that Trap Sense +4, eh? Consider taking Bbn2 (wolf totem) from Unearthed Arcana or the Wolf Berserker Lodge feat from Unapproachable East. Both help with tripping attacks which could help give you some flexibility. Oops, I meant combat *reflexes* instead of expertise - and yes, iron will, not great fort. My brain must not be working today. I'm kind of torn between the spiked chain and a regular reach weapon - mainly b/c when enlarged, if I read it correctly, the chain will give a 20' threatened area, while a regular reach weapon will have a 10' "hole" inside it's reach. the other reason is that the chain would allow me to take exotic weapn master possibly later on... I dunno, seems like a toss up to me. (never played a reach fighter before, so I don't know how much of a difference this really is in practice) I like the totem barbarian idea, I didn't remember them off the top of my head (also don't know if DM will allow UA) yeah, I guess rog12 is kind of a wasted lvl. <grin> so maybe rog11/bbn2 (wolf totem)/ftr2/prc5. my only issue with that would be the 4 lvls of low skillpoint classes right in the beginning. I guess a fair trade off...
rilem 06-08-04, 01:30 PM	Exotic Weapon Master is dynamite for chain wielders, yes. That could work well. Consider Ninja Spy from OA, which grants you access to the weighted chain -- liked spiked, but bludgeoning and can also be used as a double weapon, does 1d6 damage.
fatal error 06-08-04, 04:02 PM	Lets see, I also have access to complete warrior, masters of the wild and defenders of the faith. (though i doubt the last two will really help much) And no, I didn't really have any concept i was just looking for an interesting multi-class combo, and thought barb roge looked interesting.
lazaruscmii 06-08-04, 09:28 PM	Originally posted by fatal error Lets see, I also have access to complete warrior, masters of the wild and defenders of the faith. (though i doubt the last two will really help much) And no, I didn't really have any concept i was just looking for an interesting multi-class combo, and thought barb roge looked interesting. well, barb and rogue, it just makes sense to go the spring attack route, given the barb's speed bonus. my barb2/ftr2/rogX/prcX seems like a pretty solid build, spring attack and flank for SA, use reflexes + reach to keep baddies away from you. keep more rog lvls for more skills or more PRC levels for more combat oriented...
fatal error 06-08-04, 10:10 PM	Then i've narrowed it down to either reach+spring attack or TWF. Unless ofcourse any other great suggestions come in. and by the way thanks for all the help so far!
lazaruscmii 06-08-04, 10:59 PM	Originally posted by fatal error Then i've narrowed it down to either reach+spring attack or TWF. Unless ofcourse any other great suggestions come in. and by the way thanks for all the help so far! I don't think barb lvls really sync with TWF. I was toying with a TWF rogue idea along the lines of rog3/swashbuckler3/Invisible Blade5/Master Thrower5/dervish4. not necessarily in that order :-) something along the lines of human or strongheart halfling. 1 - rog1 - twf WF: dagger 2 - rog1/swb1 - weapon finesse 3 - rog1/swb2 - grace, point blank shot 4 - rog1/swb3 - insightful strike 5 - rog2/swb3 - 6 - rog3/swb3- precise shot 7 - rog3/swb3/IvB1 I guess it's kind of similar to the "machine gun rogue" posted about in some other threads. I'm wondering if halfling paragon couldn't be worked in as well for the extra damage bonus with thrown weapons.