An Optimized "Ray Mage?" [Archive] - Wizards Community

An Optimized "Ray Mage?" [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
ElfHunter
12-31-05, 06:42 PM I just got the Spell Compendium, and I see a number of decent (though not overpowering) ray spells. That got me to thinking....would an optimized Ray Mage be a viable PC?

Mages (and Sorcerers) can get weapon focus (ray), along with point blank, and precise shot. Maybe focus on Dex as a secondary ability.

Is this viable, or a waste of feats? Would a Sorcerer be able to pull it off better? Or is this a gish only build?
ressurrector
12-31-05, 06:58 PM you forgot one:
ranged spell specialization
req: focus (ranged spell, caster lvl 4th)
ranged spells that require ranged touch attacks get +2 dmg.
only applies to first target, if there are multiple targets, and to the first round of dmg (melfs for instance, only 1st round)
30' range
only hitpoint dealing spells.

it's in Complete Arcane
Taeldrin Laesrash
12-31-05, 07:03 PM Magelord (Lost Epires of Faerun, also in the website excerpt) and Incantrix (Player's Guide to Faerun are great PrCs for a blasting Sorcerer. However, there's also the classic Sorcerer 6/ Incantrix 10/ Archmage 4.
PhoenixInferno
12-31-05, 07:32 PM you forgot one:
ranged spell specialization
req: focus (ranged spell, caster lvl 4th)
ranged spells that require ranged touch attacks get +2 dmg.
only applies to first target, if there are multiple targets, and to the first round of dmg (melfs for instance, only 1st round)
30' range
only hitpoint dealing spells.

it's in Complete Arcane
Wow. You're suggesting someone blow a feat for a WHOLE +2 damage? Not even +2 per die?

Focus on the spells - for instance Storm Touch (Magic of Eberron) is like Shocking Grasp on steroids (the legal and illegal kind) AND crack.

EDIT: But is a touch spell and thus beyond the scope of this discussion...
ressurrector
12-31-05, 07:36 PM Wow. You're suggesting someone blow a feat for a WHOLE +2 damage? Not even +2 per die?

Focus on the spells - for instance Storm Touch (Magic of Eberron) is like Shocking Grasp on steroids (the legal and illegal kind) AND crack.

Yeah, just realized how lame that feat actually is.
Wep spec makes sense, since you can get the +2 dmg multiple times/round.
spell spec, now that I think about it is just lame, unless you can stick it on something like a fireball, and even then...

Forget I said anything
copper_wyrmling
12-31-05, 08:23 PM There's a metamagic feat called Split Ray in Complete Arcane that lets you add an additional ray to any ray spell, with a +2 level bump. It seems like Split Ray Enervation would be quite good for a L6 spell, inflicting 2d4 negative levels (no save) assuming both rays hit. Split Ray Disintegrate would be pretty funny if they failed both saves (especially if you could fit Sudden Maximise in there as well).

I'm currently playing a Living Greyhawk sorcerer / wild mage (just reached L9) with Point Blank Shot and Precise Shot, who uses rays as her main method of taking down powerful opponents (she uses area of effect spells for crowds of wimpy creatures). She doesn't have the new spells from the Spell Compendium (it's not allowed in LG at present), but she's quite effective just with empowered scorching ray and empowered ray of enfeeblement.

I've been very happy with Point Blank and Precise Shot, they've meant that even at low-mid levels my sorc almost never misses a ranged touch attack. If you're building a character at high level, they may not be so important.

There's a useful item called the Gloves of Fortunate Striking (Miniature's Handbook) that lets you reroll an attack once / day: it's great for a ray-spell specialist because you usually don't need to roll very high to hit, you inflict a lot of pain provided you hit, and you only have a limited number of shots (unless you're a warlock) so you want to make every shot count. Also there's a swift action spell in Complete Adventurer (I think) called Guided Shot, that lets you ignore cover, which can be another +4 if your party members are in the habit of inconsiderately getting in your way. This is especially important for a sorcerer - a wizard can move and then shoot, a sorcerer using metamagic'ed spells needs a full-round action and can only five-foot-step, which isn't usually enough to negate cover (in my experience).

Be warned, one of the problems with a ray mage is that grapple-monsters will make you very unhappy. It's hard to get Improved Precise Shot (BAB requirement is +11), and your spells should be scary enough that you won't want to hit the wrong person in a grapple.
Tasmar
12-31-05, 10:00 PM I would take a look at Ocular Spell, it turns a spell into a ray that can be cast at the same time as another spell that you used the same feat on, it'll work with your feats focusing on ranged attacks, though I don't think split ray can be applied to the spell after that, though that would be sweet. Four Rays shooting out of your eyes. :plotting:

Anyways Ocular Spell is in Lords of Madness
World Savers Inc.
12-31-05, 10:14 PM if you are looking for more damage for your rays, look at the Psion rays, or if you are going to go arcane the Frostburn book has feats taht are not metamagic but will apply to cold spells below at a certain temperature +1 or +2 respectively, but no addition to the spell slot.

sandstorm has a metamagic feat that adds a +1 regardless of temperature with a +1 to spellslot
ElfHunter
01-01-06, 12:22 AM From what I'm seeing here, it looks like sorcerer is the class to use for the Ray Mage concept.

I like Ocular Spell and Split Ray! What does Incantatrix (sp?) bring to the table for the ray mage (sorcerer)?
Taeldrin Laesrash
01-01-06, 02:10 AM Incantrix brings spontaneous and improved metamagic, Spell Penetration, and some other nice features, with full casting progression to boot. Empower spell is also a good feat.
UMiskatonic
01-01-06, 02:20 AM You might want to consider Arcane Trickster. Adding sneak attack damage will be nice for your ray attacks, and you'll be about as good as a straight rogue for all the roguey goodness of finding traps and such.

Cheers
ElfHunter
01-01-06, 05:29 AM Incantrix brings spontaneous and improved metamagic, Spell Penetration, and some other nice features, with full casting progression to boot. Empower spell is also a good feat.

VERY nice. I'm going to go Sorcerer with the ray specialization. I'm going to have to check on Ocular spell. But this PrC seems made for what I want to do.
ElfHunter
01-01-06, 05:31 AM You might want to consider Arcane Trickster. Adding sneak attack damage will be nice for your ray attacks, and you'll be about as good as a straight rogue for all the roguey goodness of finding traps and such.

Cheers

I was thinking of using the AT PrC, but I read the thread in the COmpendium, and Snow just TRASHED it.

Still, for this concept, I think AT could still work.
ressurrector
01-01-06, 06:59 AM get the "sudden" metamagic feats, 3/day maximised empowered rays (with no lvl adjust) sounds like fun to me :D
ElfHunter
01-01-06, 07:00 AM get the "sudden" metamagic feats, 3/day maximised empowered rays (with no lvl adjust) sounds like fun to me :D

Nice. Where can these feats be found?
ressurrector
01-01-06, 07:25 AM Nice. Where can these feats be found?

Whoops, I got the times/day wrong, here's the info from Complete Arcane

The following metamagic "sudden" feats are available. (they are useable 1/day spontaneously, no change in casting time)

Empower
Extend
Maximise
Quicken
Silent
Still
Widen

There's also some other spells in there that could be usefull, like split ray, double wand weilder, etc...
Taliesin52
01-01-06, 08:03 AM Whoops, I got the times/day wrong, here's the info from Complete Arcane

The following metamagic "sudden" feats are available. (they are useable 1/day spontaneously, no change in casting time)

Empower
Extend
Maximise
Quicken
Silent
Still
Widen

There's also some other spells in there that could be usefull, like split ray, double wand weilder, etc...

If you want to use them more than once a day, I recommend the Recaster PrC from Races of Eberron. You do have to be a changeling, but if you're not playing in Eberron, your DM may give it to a different race. It's a 5 level PrC that costs you 1 CL (at level 1) but gives many nice instant metamagic options that are particularly worthwhile to a spontaneous caster.
Tetsubo
01-01-06, 08:38 AM If you are interested in the whole Ray spell theme have you considered a Warlock. They're sort of ray specialists from the start...
PhoenixInferno
01-01-06, 10:28 AM Also, the Harper Mage (Magic of Faerun), War Wizard of Cormyr (Magic of Faerun), Arcane Devotee (Player's Guide to Faerun) grant abilities that are similar to - but strictly better than - Sudden Metamagic.
Wayne Frobisher
01-01-06, 02:23 PM This thread prompted me to post a similar concept build I've been trying with warlock. Maybe you can get some ideas, or give me some.

http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?p=8131708#post8131708

Yeah, I was gonna make an html link, but I'm lazy.
ElfHunter
01-01-06, 03:43 PM Also, the Harper Mage (Magic of Faerun), War Wizard of Cormyr (Magic of Faerun), Arcane Devotee (Player's Guide to Faerun) grant abilities that are similar to - but strictly better than - Sudden Metamagic.

This is helpful, as I will be playing in the Realms.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
ElfHunter 12-31-05, 06:42 PM	I just got the Spell Compendium, and I see a number of decent (though not overpowering) ray spells. That got me to thinking....would an optimized Ray Mage be a viable PC? Mages (and Sorcerers) can get weapon focus (ray), along with point blank, and precise shot. Maybe focus on Dex as a secondary ability. Is this viable, or a waste of feats? Would a Sorcerer be able to pull it off better? Or is this a gish only build?
ressurrector 12-31-05, 06:58 PM	you forgot one: ranged spell specialization req: focus (ranged spell, caster lvl 4th) ranged spells that require ranged touch attacks get +2 dmg. only applies to first target, if there are multiple targets, and to the first round of dmg (melfs for instance, only 1st round) 30' range only hitpoint dealing spells. it's in Complete Arcane
Taeldrin Laesrash 12-31-05, 07:03 PM	Magelord (Lost Epires of Faerun, also in the website excerpt) and Incantrix (Player's Guide to Faerun are great PrCs for a blasting Sorcerer. However, there's also the classic Sorcerer 6/ Incantrix 10/ Archmage 4.
PhoenixInferno 12-31-05, 07:32 PM	you forgot one: ranged spell specialization req: focus (ranged spell, caster lvl 4th) ranged spells that require ranged touch attacks get +2 dmg. only applies to first target, if there are multiple targets, and to the first round of dmg (melfs for instance, only 1st round) 30' range only hitpoint dealing spells. it's in Complete Arcane Wow. You're suggesting someone blow a feat for a WHOLE +2 damage? Not even +2 per die? Focus on the spells - for instance Storm Touch (Magic of Eberron) is like Shocking Grasp on steroids (the legal and illegal kind) AND crack. EDIT: But is a touch spell and thus beyond the scope of this discussion...
ressurrector 12-31-05, 07:36 PM	Wow. You're suggesting someone blow a feat for a WHOLE +2 damage? Not even +2 per die? Focus on the spells - for instance Storm Touch (Magic of Eberron) is like Shocking Grasp on steroids (the legal and illegal kind) AND crack. Yeah, just realized how lame that feat actually is. Wep spec makes sense, since you can get the +2 dmg multiple times/round. spell spec, now that I think about it is just lame, unless you can stick it on something like a fireball, and even then... Forget I said anything
copper_wyrmling 12-31-05, 08:23 PM	There's a metamagic feat called Split Ray in Complete Arcane that lets you add an additional ray to any ray spell, with a +2 level bump. It seems like Split Ray Enervation would be quite good for a L6 spell, inflicting 2d4 negative levels (no save) assuming both rays hit. Split Ray Disintegrate would be pretty funny if they failed both saves (especially if you could fit Sudden Maximise in there as well). I'm currently playing a Living Greyhawk sorcerer / wild mage (just reached L9) with Point Blank Shot and Precise Shot, who uses rays as her main method of taking down powerful opponents (she uses area of effect spells for crowds of wimpy creatures). She doesn't have the new spells from the Spell Compendium (it's not allowed in LG at present), but she's quite effective just with empowered scorching ray and empowered ray of enfeeblement. I've been very happy with Point Blank and Precise Shot, they've meant that even at low-mid levels my sorc almost never misses a ranged touch attack. If you're building a character at high level, they may not be so important. There's a useful item called the Gloves of Fortunate Striking (Miniature's Handbook) that lets you reroll an attack once / day: it's great for a ray-spell specialist because you usually don't need to roll very high to hit, you inflict a lot of pain provided you hit, and you only have a limited number of shots (unless you're a warlock) so you want to make every shot count. Also there's a swift action spell in Complete Adventurer (I think) called Guided Shot, that lets you ignore cover, which can be another +4 if your party members are in the habit of inconsiderately getting in your way. This is especially important for a sorcerer - a wizard can move and then shoot, a sorcerer using metamagic'ed spells needs a full-round action and can only five-foot-step, which isn't usually enough to negate cover (in my experience). Be warned, one of the problems with a ray mage is that grapple-monsters will make you very unhappy. It's hard to get Improved Precise Shot (BAB requirement is +11), and your spells should be scary enough that you won't want to hit the wrong person in a grapple.
Tasmar 12-31-05, 10:00 PM	I would take a look at Ocular Spell, it turns a spell into a ray that can be cast at the same time as another spell that you used the same feat on, it'll work with your feats focusing on ranged attacks, though I don't think split ray can be applied to the spell after that, though that would be sweet. Four Rays shooting out of your eyes. :plotting: Anyways Ocular Spell is in Lords of Madness
World Savers Inc. 12-31-05, 10:14 PM	if you are looking for more damage for your rays, look at the Psion rays, or if you are going to go arcane the Frostburn book has feats taht are not metamagic but will apply to cold spells below at a certain temperature +1 or +2 respectively, but no addition to the spell slot. sandstorm has a metamagic feat that adds a +1 regardless of temperature with a +1 to spellslot
ElfHunter 01-01-06, 12:22 AM	From what I'm seeing here, it looks like sorcerer is the class to use for the Ray Mage concept. I like Ocular Spell and Split Ray! What does Incantatrix (sp?) bring to the table for the ray mage (sorcerer)?
Taeldrin Laesrash 01-01-06, 02:10 AM	Incantrix brings spontaneous and improved metamagic, Spell Penetration, and some other nice features, with full casting progression to boot. Empower spell is also a good feat.
UMiskatonic 01-01-06, 02:20 AM	You might want to consider Arcane Trickster. Adding sneak attack damage will be nice for your ray attacks, and you'll be about as good as a straight rogue for all the roguey goodness of finding traps and such. Cheers
ElfHunter 01-01-06, 05:29 AM	Incantrix brings spontaneous and improved metamagic, Spell Penetration, and some other nice features, with full casting progression to boot. Empower spell is also a good feat. VERY nice. I'm going to go Sorcerer with the ray specialization. I'm going to have to check on Ocular spell. But this PrC seems made for what I want to do.
ElfHunter 01-01-06, 05:31 AM	You might want to consider Arcane Trickster. Adding sneak attack damage will be nice for your ray attacks, and you'll be about as good as a straight rogue for all the roguey goodness of finding traps and such. Cheers I was thinking of using the AT PrC, but I read the thread in the COmpendium, and Snow just TRASHED it. Still, for this concept, I think AT could still work.
ressurrector 01-01-06, 06:59 AM	get the "sudden" metamagic feats, 3/day maximised empowered rays (with no lvl adjust) sounds like fun to me :D
ElfHunter 01-01-06, 07:00 AM	get the "sudden" metamagic feats, 3/day maximised empowered rays (with no lvl adjust) sounds like fun to me :D Nice. Where can these feats be found?
ressurrector 01-01-06, 07:25 AM	Nice. Where can these feats be found? Whoops, I got the times/day wrong, here's the info from Complete Arcane The following metamagic "sudden" feats are available. (they are useable 1/day spontaneously, no change in casting time) Empower Extend Maximise Quicken Silent Still Widen There's also some other spells in there that could be usefull, like split ray, double wand weilder, etc...
Taliesin52 01-01-06, 08:03 AM	Whoops, I got the times/day wrong, here's the info from Complete Arcane The following metamagic "sudden" feats are available. (they are useable 1/day spontaneously, no change in casting time) Empower Extend Maximise Quicken Silent Still Widen There's also some other spells in there that could be usefull, like split ray, double wand weilder, etc... If you want to use them more than once a day, I recommend the Recaster PrC from Races of Eberron. You do have to be a changeling, but if you're not playing in Eberron, your DM may give it to a different race. It's a 5 level PrC that costs you 1 CL (at level 1) but gives many nice instant metamagic options that are particularly worthwhile to a spontaneous caster.
Tetsubo 01-01-06, 08:38 AM	If you are interested in the whole Ray spell theme have you considered a Warlock. They're sort of ray specialists from the start...
PhoenixInferno 01-01-06, 10:28 AM	Also, the Harper Mage (Magic of Faerun), War Wizard of Cormyr (Magic of Faerun), Arcane Devotee (Player's Guide to Faerun) grant abilities that are similar to - but strictly better than - Sudden Metamagic.
Wayne Frobisher 01-01-06, 02:23 PM	This thread prompted me to post a similar concept build I've been trying with warlock. Maybe you can get some ideas, or give me some. http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?p=8131708#post8131708 Yeah, I was gonna make an html link, but I'm lazy.
ElfHunter 01-01-06, 03:43 PM	Also, the Harper Mage (Magic of Faerun), War Wizard of Cormyr (Magic of Faerun), Arcane Devotee (Player's Guide to Faerun) grant abilities that are similar to - but strictly better than - Sudden Metamagic. This is helpful, as I will be playing in the Realms.