Anarchic Axiomatic Half Celestial Half Fiend [Archive] - Wizards Community

Anarchic Axiomatic Half Celestial Half Fiend [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Jonithen
09-25-06, 01:10 PM Hello,

What started out as a low magic compaign has turned into an arms race. My DM has allowed me to take the above four templates, and is letting me use 14 hit dice to work with for class levels. Yes, I know this will be a sick level adjustment and I will probably never see that 15th hit dice. I am ok with this. In fact, if anyone out there has any other templates they can reccomend that would kind of work with the above theme I may be able to work them in if they are thematically appropriate. I've more or less resigned myself to never leveling again, might as well make it worth it.

I'm more interested in melee-type class levels, but I am curious as to what some of the char op board posters might do with the combination of the templates. Alignment is True Neutral, but the DM has agreed that I can use some levels of monk and retain the abilities, for example, although they cannot be advanced (provided I earn the billion experience points required) for this character. Right now my plan is to take a few levels of monk and take the rest in Fighter, but I wanted to see what others could suggest.

It isn't rules as written, but our group's system allows attributes to be swapped around on a 1-1 basis regardless of modifier, so adjust as desired

I technically have access to just about every book, but they are at another guy's place. If you come up with something outside of Player's or Complete Adventurer, a title and page number would be awesome. I tend to get overshadowed by the others in the group since I really only have a Player's Handbook to work off of when I'm not at a game. I'd like to change that trend. I don't need to be able to one-shot god, but I'd like to hold my own for a change.

That said, here is what I have to work with to start, along with a surprisingly nifty weapon they drew up for my character to swing around.

Medium Outsider (Anarchic Axiomatic Half Celestial Half Fiend)
HD: 14d10
Abilities: Strength 22, Dexterity 20, Constitution 20, Intelligence 18, Wisdom 20, Charisma 20 (+3 from hit dice, not factored in yet)
Natural Attacks: 2 Claws (1d4), 1 Bite (1d6)
Special Attacks: Smite Chaos, Smite Good, Smite Evil, Smite Law
Damage Reduction: 10/magic?Fast Healing 5?Resistances: Acid 10, Cold 10, Electricity 10, Fire 10, Sonic 10?Immunities: Disease, Petrification, Poison, Polymorph?Spell Resistance: HD+10, Maximum 25?Natural Armor +2?Dark Vision to 60 feet?Wings, can fly at base speed x2?Linked Mind
Spell like abilities:?Aid, Blasphemy, Bless, Contagion, Cure Serious Wounds, Darkness (x3 per day), Daylight (at will), Desecrate, Detect Evil, Dispel Evil, Hallow, Holy Aura (x3 per day), Holy Smite, Holy Word, Neutralize Poison, Poison (x3 per day), Protection from Evil (x3 per day), Remove Disease, Unhallow, Unholy Aura (x3 per day), Unholy Blight

Standard number of feat slots available for 14 HD
Skills as appropriate for class levels

Ridiculous sword he let my character have:
2d6 +1 Anarchic, Axiomatic, Holy, Unholy, Ki Focus, Hardened Adamantine (Hardness 25, HP 33). Roll 1d8 at beginning of day. (1 Lawful Good, 2 Good, 3 Chaotic Good, 4 Chaotic, 5 Chaotic Evil, 6 Evil, 7 Lawful Evil, 8 Lawful). Critical hits against creature of that alignment apply alignment based flag damage x2. The sword also comes with a sheath that casts "Keen Edge" when the blade is drawn to a maximum of 3x per day.

Thanks for reading, and if nothing else I hope you got a chuckle.

Regards,
Jonithen
Prominence
09-25-06, 01:12 PM At +12 LA I'd rather play an astral deva or use the paragon template...
Jonithen
09-25-06, 01:16 PM where can I find an astral deva?

Paragon is already right out, I didn't even have a chance to ask
PhoenixInferno
09-25-06, 01:18 PM where can I find an astral deva?

Paragon is already right out, I didn't even have a chance to askMonster Manual. And its only +8 LA.
Tweedledope
09-25-06, 01:19 PM Axiomatic/Anarchic + Half-Celestial/Half-Fiend = Human...No LA, easier gameplay. Problem solved.
Jonithen
09-26-06, 06:38 PM If humans inherently had wings, two types of natural attacks, four smites per day, twenty-something spell like abilities, some natural armor and a few resistances and immunities, before figuring in what you can get from class levels, you would have a valid point.

However, humans instead get a bonus feat and a few extra skill points here and there. Not exactly the same kind of ballpark as to what I'm going for above.

Your insightful response succinctly illustrates that vanilla humans do in fact have a lower level adjustment than one with four templates applied. I'm glad you posted this, as I wasn't totally sure myself. For that, I thank you.
Kresalak
09-26-06, 06:44 PM At this LA, it would be balanced to play something like a Pit Fiend, or Balor, or any-outsider-below-Solar. And Pit Fiends/Balors are much cooler than this.

Play a Pit Fiend!
PhoenixInferno
09-26-06, 06:52 PM If humans inherently had wings, two types of natural attacks, four smites per day, twenty-something spell like abilities, some natural armor and a few resistances and immunities, before figuring in what you can get from class levels, you would have a valid point.Except that as a 14th or so level character you have exactly 2 HD. ECL = HD + LA. In your case 14 = 12 + 2. Or, if you've got the 14 HD, you're now a 26th level character.
Jonithen
09-26-06, 07:37 PM At this LA, it would be balanced to play something like a Pit Fiend, or Balor, or any-outsider-below-Solar. And Pit Fiends/Balors are much cooler than this.

Play a Pit Fiend!

They're powerful, but kind of cookie cutter, sort of like walking into a tattoo parlor, flipping through a catalog and going "Number 83 represents me as a person, can I get two?" Simultaneously representing each axis of the law-chaos and good-evil alignments without being ruled by any one particular extreme seems kind of neat to me. This is a pretty good suggestion, as I am going to take a closer look at what makes the two creatures you suggest so awesome, and try to incorporate it into what I'm building. I was kind of sarcastic to the last guy I "thanked", but this one does help me out, so I actually mean it when I say thanks!

Except that as a 14th or so level character you have exactly 2 HD. ECL = HD + LA. In your case 14 = 12 + 2. Or, if you've got the 14 HD, you're now a 26th level character.

I could be wrong, but I think its more like the character levels as though it were a 26th level character, so he's at 14 HD and gets the fifteenth one after a few trillion exp or whatever the point total is to get to 27 or whatever. A second level human wizard that becomes a vampire doesn't instantly throw nastier magic missiles, right? Either way, its still not particularly relevant to the topic of "here's four templates, what kind of awesome can be done with 14 HD as a front-line fighter?"

It isn't a strict build from levels one through 14 in the traditional sense, its more that I get to assign fourteen levels of whatever, then the templates get applied, and I get the four Feats any other character would have before getting the fifth at level 15. Its a little nonstandard in the way it gets put together, but its the result of a magic thing in the campaign - character keeps current level but can be remade as the player sees fit. I'm kind of fixated on keeping the Anarchic/Axiomatic/Half-Celestial/Half-Fiend thing, I'm just trying to figure out what I can do with it. Has no one else ever tried this particular combination out?
PhoenixInferno
09-26-06, 07:42 PM I could be wrong, but I think its more like the character levels as though it were a 26th level character, so he's at 14 HD and gets the fifteenth one after a few trillion exp or whatever the point total is to get to 27 or whatever. A second level human wizard that becomes a vampire doesn't instantly throw nastier magic missiles, right? Either way, its still not particularly relevant to the topic of "here's four templates, what kind of awesome can be done with 14 HD as a front-line fighter?"

It isn't a strict build from levels one through 14 in the traditional sense, its more that I get to assign fourteen levels of whatever, then the templates get applied, and I get the four Feats any other character would have before getting the fifth at level 15. Its a little nonstandard in the way it gets put together, but its the result of a magic thing in the campaign - character keeps current level but can be remade as the player sees fit. I'm kind of fixated on keeping the Anarchic/Axiomatic/Half-Celestial/Half-Fiend thing, I'm just trying to figure out what I can do with it. Has no one else ever tried this particular combination out?So you're an ECL 26 character in a 14th level game. As long as you know you're not playing the same rules the rest of us are, do whatever the heck you want. No one here is understanding what you're trying to do - are you trying to make an ECL 14 character or an ECL 26 character, or are you an ECL 14 character with 12 levels of free LA or what?
Jonithen
09-26-06, 08:24 PM So you're an ECL 26 character in a 14th level game. As long as you know you're not playing the same rules the rest of us are, do whatever the heck you want. No one here is understanding what you're trying to do - are you trying to make an ECL 14 character or an ECL 26 character, or are you an ECL 14 character with 12 levels of free LA or what?

14 character levels, with the templates tacked on at the end. It may not ever get sanctioned for an RPGA event, but that isn't really my concern here. They can send my DM an angry letter for allowing it if they want to. If its easier to visualize, forget the templates altogether, and go with a completely normal LA 0 human that can fly for whatever reaon.

How would you build a 14th level frontline melee human that can fly?
PhoenixInferno
09-26-06, 08:58 PM How would you build a 14th level frontline melee human that can fly?By having the Wizard cast Fly on you...

Or the Winged template (Savage Species, I believe).
Tleilaxu_Ghola
09-26-06, 09:13 PM 14 character levels, with the templates tacked on at the end. It may not ever get sanctioned for an RPGA event, but that isn't really my concern here. They can send my DM an angry letter for allowing it if they want to. If its easier to visualize, forget the templates altogether, and go with a completely normal LA 0 human that can fly for whatever reaon.

How would you build a 14th level frontline melee human that can fly?
A gish could fly with the fly spell (mage/fighter), a raptorian (with 10HD) could fly (they have +0 LA), a psi-gish (psion/fighter) could fly with the overland flight, a ToB character with the stance "balance on the air" could walk on air (by 14th level I believe), a fighter with winged boots could fly....

The list goes on and on. Flying isn't that special.
GDarius
09-26-06, 10:30 PM I think Jonithen's question was more along the lines of "If you had a character with the unique (ex.) advantage of being able to fly, how would you arrange his first 14 levels to take advantage of that as a front-line fighter?" than "I want to make a level 14 guy that can fly, how do I go about doing it?"

My best guess; gish it up. Get low-mid level spells/powers/what-have-you to up your movement speed (Expeditious Retreat, Haste, Hustle or equivalents).

I'd go with a skirmisher rather than an all-out tank, just because your inherent advantage is going to be mobility rather than power. Look into the Rapid Blitz feat-tree from PHB 2. Alternatly, you could try a charger of some sort, in which case, look for a way to pounce, and a way to charge in non-straight lines. An archer build (Wizard/Fighter/ Arcane Archer 2/ Eldrich Knight) also might work, as that would let you play keep-away while mixing in some full attacks.

Can you be more specific as to what you want your character's function to be?
Endarire
09-28-06, 02:12 AM Get Practiced Caster if you go gish. I advise being able to regularly wraithstrike and mirror image.

-EE
Jonithen
09-28-06, 07:03 PM I'd go with a skirmisher rather than an all-out tank, just because your inherent advantage is going to be mobility rather than power. Look into the Rapid Blitz feat-tree from PHB 2. Alternatly, you could try a charger of some sort, in which case, look for a way to pounce, and a way to charge in non-straight lines. An archer build (Wizard/Fighter/ Arcane Archer 2/ Eldrich Knight) also might work, as that would let you play keep-away while mixing in some full attacks.

Can you be more specific as to what you want your character's function to be?

Thanks very much for the reply. I agree, an archer would probably give me the most advantage, but I love the visual of swooping in and tearing things apart up close and personally. I will take a look through Player's handbook 2 the next time I meet up with the group.

In order of importance, here is what I think I want to enhance: something like a spirited charge that doesn't rely on a mount, things to enhance flying ability, and if possible to extend the character's collection of immunities.

Right now, the character has immunity to Disease, Petrification, Poison, and Polymorph. I'm thinking of sinking 5 levels into Occult slayer for the saving throw bonuses and immunity to mental affects, but I'm still on the fence.

That said, I'm also probably going to be taking Flyby Attack and Improved Flyby attack. Great flyby attack looks vicious, but because of all the spell-like abilities I have to work with, I think I'd get better utility out of the Improved version.

Psionics are out for this campaign, but incarnum stuff is allowed, if that helps you in any way...

Any suggestions you could offer for a mount-less charger would be great, either in increasing damage output or improving speed. I will look around some on my own to see if I come up with any good ideas.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Jonithen 09-25-06, 01:10 PM	Hello, What started out as a low magic compaign has turned into an arms race. My DM has allowed me to take the above four templates, and is letting me use 14 hit dice to work with for class levels. Yes, I know this will be a sick level adjustment and I will probably never see that 15th hit dice. I am ok with this. In fact, if anyone out there has any other templates they can reccomend that would kind of work with the above theme I may be able to work them in if they are thematically appropriate. I've more or less resigned myself to never leveling again, might as well make it worth it. I'm more interested in melee-type class levels, but I am curious as to what some of the char op board posters might do with the combination of the templates. Alignment is True Neutral, but the DM has agreed that I can use some levels of monk and retain the abilities, for example, although they cannot be advanced (provided I earn the billion experience points required) for this character. Right now my plan is to take a few levels of monk and take the rest in Fighter, but I wanted to see what others could suggest. It isn't rules as written, but our group's system allows attributes to be swapped around on a 1-1 basis regardless of modifier, so adjust as desired I technically have access to just about every book, but they are at another guy's place. If you come up with something outside of Player's or Complete Adventurer, a title and page number would be awesome. I tend to get overshadowed by the others in the group since I really only have a Player's Handbook to work off of when I'm not at a game. I'd like to change that trend. I don't need to be able to one-shot god, but I'd like to hold my own for a change. That said, here is what I have to work with to start, along with a surprisingly nifty weapon they drew up for my character to swing around. Medium Outsider (Anarchic Axiomatic Half Celestial Half Fiend) HD: 14d10 Abilities: Strength 22, Dexterity 20, Constitution 20, Intelligence 18, Wisdom 20, Charisma 20 (+3 from hit dice, not factored in yet) Natural Attacks: 2 Claws (1d4), 1 Bite (1d6) Special Attacks: Smite Chaos, Smite Good, Smite Evil, Smite Law Damage Reduction: 10/magic?Fast Healing 5?Resistances: Acid 10, Cold 10, Electricity 10, Fire 10, Sonic 10?Immunities: Disease, Petrification, Poison, Polymorph?Spell Resistance: HD+10, Maximum 25?Natural Armor +2?Dark Vision to 60 feet?Wings, can fly at base speed x2?Linked Mind Spell like abilities:?Aid, Blasphemy, Bless, Contagion, Cure Serious Wounds, Darkness (x3 per day), Daylight (at will), Desecrate, Detect Evil, Dispel Evil, Hallow, Holy Aura (x3 per day), Holy Smite, Holy Word, Neutralize Poison, Poison (x3 per day), Protection from Evil (x3 per day), Remove Disease, Unhallow, Unholy Aura (x3 per day), Unholy Blight Standard number of feat slots available for 14 HD Skills as appropriate for class levels Ridiculous sword he let my character have: 2d6 +1 Anarchic, Axiomatic, Holy, Unholy, Ki Focus, Hardened Adamantine (Hardness 25, HP 33). Roll 1d8 at beginning of day. (1 Lawful Good, 2 Good, 3 Chaotic Good, 4 Chaotic, 5 Chaotic Evil, 6 Evil, 7 Lawful Evil, 8 Lawful). Critical hits against creature of that alignment apply alignment based flag damage x2. The sword also comes with a sheath that casts "Keen Edge" when the blade is drawn to a maximum of 3x per day. Thanks for reading, and if nothing else I hope you got a chuckle. Regards, Jonithen
Prominence 09-25-06, 01:12 PM	At +12 LA I'd rather play an astral deva or use the paragon template...
Jonithen 09-25-06, 01:16 PM	where can I find an astral deva? Paragon is already right out, I didn't even have a chance to ask
PhoenixInferno 09-25-06, 01:18 PM	where can I find an astral deva? Paragon is already right out, I didn't even have a chance to askMonster Manual. And its only +8 LA.
Tweedledope 09-25-06, 01:19 PM	Axiomatic/Anarchic + Half-Celestial/Half-Fiend = Human...No LA, easier gameplay. Problem solved.
Jonithen 09-26-06, 06:38 PM	If humans inherently had wings, two types of natural attacks, four smites per day, twenty-something spell like abilities, some natural armor and a few resistances and immunities, before figuring in what you can get from class levels, you would have a valid point. However, humans instead get a bonus feat and a few extra skill points here and there. Not exactly the same kind of ballpark as to what I'm going for above. Your insightful response succinctly illustrates that vanilla humans do in fact have a lower level adjustment than one with four templates applied. I'm glad you posted this, as I wasn't totally sure myself. For that, I thank you.
Kresalak 09-26-06, 06:44 PM	At this LA, it would be balanced to play something like a Pit Fiend, or Balor, or any-outsider-below-Solar. And Pit Fiends/Balors are much cooler than this. Play a Pit Fiend!
PhoenixInferno 09-26-06, 06:52 PM	If humans inherently had wings, two types of natural attacks, four smites per day, twenty-something spell like abilities, some natural armor and a few resistances and immunities, before figuring in what you can get from class levels, you would have a valid point.Except that as a 14th or so level character you have exactly 2 HD. ECL = HD + LA. In your case 14 = 12 + 2. Or, if you've got the 14 HD, you're now a 26th level character.
Jonithen 09-26-06, 07:37 PM	At this LA, it would be balanced to play something like a Pit Fiend, or Balor, or any-outsider-below-Solar. And Pit Fiends/Balors are much cooler than this. Play a Pit Fiend! They're powerful, but kind of cookie cutter, sort of like walking into a tattoo parlor, flipping through a catalog and going "Number 83 represents me as a person, can I get two?" Simultaneously representing each axis of the law-chaos and good-evil alignments without being ruled by any one particular extreme seems kind of neat to me. This is a pretty good suggestion, as I am going to take a closer look at what makes the two creatures you suggest so awesome, and try to incorporate it into what I'm building. I was kind of sarcastic to the last guy I "thanked", but this one does help me out, so I actually mean it when I say thanks! Except that as a 14th or so level character you have exactly 2 HD. ECL = HD + LA. In your case 14 = 12 + 2. Or, if you've got the 14 HD, you're now a 26th level character. I could be wrong, but I think its more like the character levels as though it were a 26th level character, so he's at 14 HD and gets the fifteenth one after a few trillion exp or whatever the point total is to get to 27 or whatever. A second level human wizard that becomes a vampire doesn't instantly throw nastier magic missiles, right? Either way, its still not particularly relevant to the topic of "here's four templates, what kind of awesome can be done with 14 HD as a front-line fighter?" It isn't a strict build from levels one through 14 in the traditional sense, its more that I get to assign fourteen levels of whatever, then the templates get applied, and I get the four Feats any other character would have before getting the fifth at level 15. Its a little nonstandard in the way it gets put together, but its the result of a magic thing in the campaign - character keeps current level but can be remade as the player sees fit. I'm kind of fixated on keeping the Anarchic/Axiomatic/Half-Celestial/Half-Fiend thing, I'm just trying to figure out what I can do with it. Has no one else ever tried this particular combination out?
PhoenixInferno 09-26-06, 07:42 PM	I could be wrong, but I think its more like the character levels as though it were a 26th level character, so he's at 14 HD and gets the fifteenth one after a few trillion exp or whatever the point total is to get to 27 or whatever. A second level human wizard that becomes a vampire doesn't instantly throw nastier magic missiles, right? Either way, its still not particularly relevant to the topic of "here's four templates, what kind of awesome can be done with 14 HD as a front-line fighter?" It isn't a strict build from levels one through 14 in the traditional sense, its more that I get to assign fourteen levels of whatever, then the templates get applied, and I get the four Feats any other character would have before getting the fifth at level 15. Its a little nonstandard in the way it gets put together, but its the result of a magic thing in the campaign - character keeps current level but can be remade as the player sees fit. I'm kind of fixated on keeping the Anarchic/Axiomatic/Half-Celestial/Half-Fiend thing, I'm just trying to figure out what I can do with it. Has no one else ever tried this particular combination out?So you're an ECL 26 character in a 14th level game. As long as you know you're not playing the same rules the rest of us are, do whatever the heck you want. No one here is understanding what you're trying to do - are you trying to make an ECL 14 character or an ECL 26 character, or are you an ECL 14 character with 12 levels of free LA or what?
Jonithen 09-26-06, 08:24 PM	So you're an ECL 26 character in a 14th level game. As long as you know you're not playing the same rules the rest of us are, do whatever the heck you want. No one here is understanding what you're trying to do - are you trying to make an ECL 14 character or an ECL 26 character, or are you an ECL 14 character with 12 levels of free LA or what? 14 character levels, with the templates tacked on at the end. It may not ever get sanctioned for an RPGA event, but that isn't really my concern here. They can send my DM an angry letter for allowing it if they want to. If its easier to visualize, forget the templates altogether, and go with a completely normal LA 0 human that can fly for whatever reaon. How would you build a 14th level frontline melee human that can fly?
PhoenixInferno 09-26-06, 08:58 PM	How would you build a 14th level frontline melee human that can fly?By having the Wizard cast Fly on you... Or the Winged template (Savage Species, I believe).
Tleilaxu_Ghola 09-26-06, 09:13 PM	14 character levels, with the templates tacked on at the end. It may not ever get sanctioned for an RPGA event, but that isn't really my concern here. They can send my DM an angry letter for allowing it if they want to. If its easier to visualize, forget the templates altogether, and go with a completely normal LA 0 human that can fly for whatever reaon. How would you build a 14th level frontline melee human that can fly? A gish could fly with the fly spell (mage/fighter), a raptorian (with 10HD) could fly (they have +0 LA), a psi-gish (psion/fighter) could fly with the overland flight, a ToB character with the stance "balance on the air" could walk on air (by 14th level I believe), a fighter with winged boots could fly.... The list goes on and on. Flying isn't that special.
GDarius 09-26-06, 10:30 PM	I think Jonithen's question was more along the lines of "If you had a character with the unique (ex.) advantage of being able to fly, how would you arrange his first 14 levels to take advantage of that as a front-line fighter?" than "I want to make a level 14 guy that can fly, how do I go about doing it?" My best guess; gish it up. Get low-mid level spells/powers/what-have-you to up your movement speed (Expeditious Retreat, Haste, Hustle or equivalents). I'd go with a skirmisher rather than an all-out tank, just because your inherent advantage is going to be mobility rather than power. Look into the Rapid Blitz feat-tree from PHB 2. Alternatly, you could try a charger of some sort, in which case, look for a way to pounce, and a way to charge in non-straight lines. An archer build (Wizard/Fighter/ Arcane Archer 2/ Eldrich Knight) also might work, as that would let you play keep-away while mixing in some full attacks. Can you be more specific as to what you want your character's function to be?
Endarire 09-28-06, 02:12 AM	Get Practiced Caster if you go gish. I advise being able to regularly wraithstrike and mirror image. -EE
Jonithen 09-28-06, 07:03 PM	I'd go with a skirmisher rather than an all-out tank, just because your inherent advantage is going to be mobility rather than power. Look into the Rapid Blitz feat-tree from PHB 2. Alternatly, you could try a charger of some sort, in which case, look for a way to pounce, and a way to charge in non-straight lines. An archer build (Wizard/Fighter/ Arcane Archer 2/ Eldrich Knight) also might work, as that would let you play keep-away while mixing in some full attacks. Can you be more specific as to what you want your character's function to be? Thanks very much for the reply. I agree, an archer would probably give me the most advantage, but I love the visual of swooping in and tearing things apart up close and personally. I will take a look through Player's handbook 2 the next time I meet up with the group. In order of importance, here is what I think I want to enhance: something like a spirited charge that doesn't rely on a mount, things to enhance flying ability, and if possible to extend the character's collection of immunities. Right now, the character has immunity to Disease, Petrification, Poison, and Polymorph. I'm thinking of sinking 5 levels into Occult slayer for the saving throw bonuses and immunity to mental affects, but I'm still on the fence. That said, I'm also probably going to be taking Flyby Attack and Improved Flyby attack. Great flyby attack looks vicious, but because of all the spell-like abilities I have to work with, I think I'd get better utility out of the Improved version. Psionics are out for this campaign, but incarnum stuff is allowed, if that helps you in any way... Any suggestions you could offer for a mount-less charger would be great, either in increasing damage output or improving speed. I will look around some on my own to see if I come up with any good ideas.