&MAD Max (ability score builds) [Archive] - Wizards Community

&MAD Max (ability score builds) [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
catharz
01-30-04, 02:28 PM I just thought it wouuld be fun to collect some of those No-MAD or totally MAD builds that people have come up with over time.
This isn't a "Help me add all of my abilitiy scores to things they normally aren't added to" thread. Rather, I would like to see actual, playable builds well suited to characters with just one high ability score.
Of course, the former sort of build is welcome too ;)

Use any sources you wish! I don't care if it is "Official," go ahead and use your Home-brew, third party, and even (*gasp*) Dragon or Dungeon material.

This dosen't mean that I'll provide any useful input to builds that use PrCs or feats from sources I've never read. It dosen't mean anyone else will either. Just know that I won't flame you for posting it. I doo view builds that use identical abilities multiple times in an unfriendly light, so lets not see just how many times you can add Cha to saves. Then again, if you really want to go for it. I'll just ignore you in my own little way.

And lastly, this thread will probably get very disorganized if it gets popular (or even if it dosen't :rolleyes: ). I'm not JK or Macnuggle, and so it probably won't have any index, or even good formatting. There won't be a required format for builds, but if you want people to understand them then some level of effort should probably be put into making them clear.

:behold:
PhaedrusXY
01-30-04, 02:45 PM The Possessor

Cleric(ofShar)8/MasterOfShrouds10/MysticWanderer2
BAB +17, Cleric caster level 20, Cleric Rebuking level 18
Saves: Fort medium, Refl medium, Will good
Cha to AC if unarmored. You only need one very good ability (Wisdom), but Charisma should be second on the list.

Possess big, strong heroes (or monsters) using Magic Jar and give your familiar the gem with your soul in it. Add a monk's belt and use Dramij's Instant Summons (ala Miracle) to get it back if your host dies. Leave your real body guarded by lots of really nasty undead in a well hidden place.

Feats: Spellcasting Prodigy, Shadow Weave Magic, Tenacious Magic, Extend Spell, Persistant Spell, Extra Turning (bonus), Power Attack, Divine Might, Iron Will

Domains: Take Darkness and Knowledge first. MoS will grant you Death, Evil, and Protection.

If you want to know more, go HERE (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=150894&highlight=possessor).
Morka
01-30-04, 02:50 PM For the STR ability:
I'm currently working on an Half-Centaur/half-dragon (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?threadid=173478). Only with both racial adjustments, I get +16 STR, that means I can easily reach a STR of 34 without any magical enhancement.

Unfortunately, this ECL 9 beast gets only 2 feats. The current idea is Ride-by-attack and Spirited Charge, using a Large Lance. This way, I can triple my fantastic STR bonus on damage!
catharz
01-30-04, 02:53 PM Wisdom~

Lawful good:
Monk 1/Paladin 4/Sacred fist 8

1:Mnk 1
2:Mnk 1/Pal 1
5:Mnk 1/Pal 4
6:Mnk 1/Pal 4/SF 1
13:Mnk 1/Pal 4/SF 8

Feats: Serenity [Dragon 306], Intuitive strike [BoED], Sacred fist pre-requisites. This build is also good with Vow of poverty (the high ability increases are even better, and weapons and armor are fairly useless).

Wisdom to: AC, Saves, Attack (twice with unarmed), Damage, Spells, and Turn undead (which dosen't really matter).
LordShade
01-30-04, 02:58 PM Sam2/Pal4/Sor2/Arcane Duelist2/IM10/Shiba1/Monk1

Wis to hit and damage and AC
Cha to hit/damage (smite), AC, Initiative, damage (Strike from the Void), damage (Divine Might), saves
Int to AC

Alternately, use cosmopolitan, drop sam2 and 1 level of sorc for 3 levels of Swashbuckler to add Int to damage.

I've posted a lot of variants on this basic concept over the past few months.
catharz
01-30-04, 03:02 PM Wisdom~

Lawful good Mk. II:
Paladin 20

Feats: Serenity, Intuitive strike.

IMO this build makes strait Paladin doable in a Min/Max party. However, a Monk's belt is rather important to the EQ list, making it a bad choice for VoP-types.
This one can actually be very good at undead turning, not to mention smiting evil.

But how I wish for a divine spellcasting PrC that grants Divine grace!
catharz
01-30-04, 03:05 PM Thanks for all the replies.

PhaedrusXY, your build is a very interesting way to ignore bad physical stats.

I'm sure that Wizard 20 deserves it's place here, so there it is.
LordShade
01-30-04, 04:29 PM Originally posted by catharz
But how I wish for a divine spellcasting PrC that grants Divine grace!

Contemplative with mysticism domain

edit - the whole trick with the Sorc/Shugenja mystic theurge was stacking Mystic Wanderer and Contemplative onto the build to add cha to AC and saves in addition to double casting from one stat.
horndgod
01-30-04, 04:34 PM Originally posted by catharz

But how I wish for a divine spellcasting PrC that grants Divine grace!

Well, there is the Witch Hunter PrC from OA, but it doesn't grant full caster progression.
catharz
01-30-04, 04:51 PM Hordgod: It grants "Kami's grace," not "Divine grace."

Lordshade: That grants the benefits of the Mysticism domain, not "Divine grace."

Thank you for the suggestions, though.
catharz
02-02-04, 02:11 PM Alright, here is my D20 Modern Smart Min/Max prefix:

Smart hero 3/Field scientist 1

1:SH 1
3:SH 3
4:SH 3/FS 1

Talent 1: Savant or Linguist.
Talent 2: Exploit weakness.

In four levels this nets Int to attack (with a check and move-equiv) and Int to AC.
PhaedrusXY
02-02-04, 02:37 PM Originally posted by catharz
Hordgod: It grants "Kami's grace," not "Divine grace."

Lordshade: That grants the benefits of the Mysticism domain, not "Divine grace."

Thank you for the suggestions, though. What difference does it make? It's all Cha to saves. Why do you want the one specifically called "Divine Grace"?
Snow Savant
02-02-04, 02:41 PM This Dwarf is Hell on Wheels. He's super-fast, without any equipment or spells. Start him off with a CON of 20, and level him up to 24 (add the last one to DEX). Because of Ninja-8, he adds his (CON Mod. x 5') to his movement. At 20th level, he has a base move of 55' per round. And that's without *any* enhancement. Not to mention, this Dwarf is tough as nails, and has a boatload of HP's for what is considered to be a hybrid Fighter/Rogue build.

He then takes the Spring Attack feat chain to complement his speed. Add to that Singh Rager Pounce, BAB +20 (4 attacks), the TWF feat, EWM Flurry, Chain proficiency, and +6d6 SA, and he will be causing some serious mayhem in melee. Odds are he will not get hit much because of Spring Attacking. And when he does, he has tons of HP's ... making him a hard-as-hell character to kill.

Ninja11 / Ftr2 / SinghRager4 / ExoticWeaponMaster3

Oh ... and since this is a wacky thread of sorts, he does change his ethics from NG to LG at one point in his career. That's not too much of a stretch, is it? :P God knows, in real life, I just changed gears from NG to CN just last week. Let's see how long *that* lasts...

XO,
Snow :cloud9:
Falido
02-02-04, 03:23 PM Best Smart hero in D20 modern defenatly uses a massive ammount of savants (10th lvl smart with 5 savants gets 50 extra skill points what more do you want as a smart hero????) :P

btw these skill Go ontop of your normal skill points helping you get insane skill roll :P
Hanniball
02-02-04, 03:46 PM That's not too much of a stretch, is it? God knows, in real life, I just changed gears from NG to CN just last week. Let's see how long *that* lasts...

coffee will do that...

druid 20 is highly non-MAD as wisdom is the only attribute that matters for anything after 5th level.

of course Swash 3/pal 2/Mnk 2/Duelist X/Shiba 1/Mystic Wan 1/Sor 1/Arcane duel 2/Forsaker X is one of the MADest builds i can think of.

either way...just my 0.02 cp
catharz
02-03-04, 03:39 AM Originally posted by PhaedrusXY
What difference does it make? It's all Cha to saves. Why do you want the one specifically called "Divine Grace"?

"Divine grace" is required for the feat "Serenity."
PhaedrusXY
02-03-04, 03:56 AM Originally posted by catharz
"Divine grace" is required for the feat "Serenity." What does that do and where is it from?
catharz
02-03-04, 04:14 AM It is intended for Paladins of Rao and changes the relevant ability score for a number of baladin class features from charisma to wisdom.

It is, of course, from Dragon. 306 to be exact.
ShameOnU
02-03-04, 05:35 AM i Was just wondering were some of all those classes are from.
specific. were is the "Mystic Wan", the "SinghRager", "Ninja", "Contemplative", "IM", and the "Shiba", "master of shrouds" and the "Sacred Fist" where are all of those classes from, would aprrciate it :)
Lorimo the Disbeliever
02-03-04, 11:46 AM Mystic Wanderer - Magic of Faerun
Singh Rager - Oriental Adventures
Ninja - Rokugan CS
Contemplative - Defenders of the Faith
IM aka Iaijutsu Master - Oriental Adventures
Master of Shrouds - Defenders of the Faith
Sacred Fist - Defenders of the Faith
Shiba Protector - Oriental Adventures

You can find D20 PrC index on www.crystalkeep.com
catharz
02-06-04, 04:41 AM OK, 2 new versions of the No-MAD Paladin/Monk:

Primary Monk~

Monk (Holy) 16/Paladin 4

1:Mnk 1
2:Mnk 1/Pal 1
3:Mnk 1/Pal 2
4:Mnk 2/Pal 2
18:Mnk 16/Pal 2
19:Mnk 16/Pal 3
20:Mnk 16/Pal 4

Primary Paladin~

Monk (Holy) 4/Paladin 16

1:Mnk 1
2:Mnk 1/Pal 1
3:Mnk 1/Pal 2
4:Mnk 2/Pal 2
5:Mnk 2/Pal 3
16:Mnk 2/Pal 14
17:Mnk 3/Pal 14
18:Mnk 4/Pal 14
19:Mnk 4/Pal 15
20:Mnk 4/Pal 16

Feats: Serenity, Intuitive attack, Zen archery.

Wisdom to: Saves, AC, attack, Smite evil (as Pal 20), Turn undead (as Pal 20), spells

Requisite Shiba protector~

Monk 4/Paladin 15/Shiba protector 1

Feats: Serenity, Expertise, Alertness.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
catharz 01-30-04, 02:28 PM	I just thought it wouuld be fun to collect some of those No-MAD or totally MAD builds that people have come up with over time. This isn't a "Help me add all of my abilitiy scores to things they normally aren't added to" thread. Rather, I would like to see actual, playable builds well suited to characters with just one high ability score. Of course, the former sort of build is welcome too ;) Use any sources you wish! I don't care if it is "Official," go ahead and use your Home-brew, third party, and even (gasp) Dragon or Dungeon material. This dosen't mean that I'll provide any useful input to builds that use PrCs or feats from sources I've never read. It dosen't mean anyone else will either. Just know that I won't flame you for posting it. I doo view builds that use identical abilities multiple times in an unfriendly light, so lets not see just how many times you can add Cha to saves. Then again, if you really want to go for it. I'll just ignore you in my own little way. And lastly, this thread will probably get very disorganized if it gets popular (or even if it dosen't :rolleyes: ). I'm not JK or Macnuggle, and so it probably won't have any index, or even good formatting. There won't be a required format for builds, but if you want people to understand them then some level of effort should probably be put into making them clear. :behold:
PhaedrusXY 01-30-04, 02:45 PM	The Possessor Cleric(ofShar)8/MasterOfShrouds10/MysticWanderer2 BAB +17, Cleric caster level 20, Cleric Rebuking level 18 Saves: Fort medium, Refl medium, Will good Cha to AC if unarmored. You only need one very good ability (Wisdom), but Charisma should be second on the list. Possess big, strong heroes (or monsters) using Magic Jar and give your familiar the gem with your soul in it. Add a monk's belt and use Dramij's Instant Summons (ala Miracle) to get it back if your host dies. Leave your real body guarded by lots of really nasty undead in a well hidden place. Feats: Spellcasting Prodigy, Shadow Weave Magic, Tenacious Magic, Extend Spell, Persistant Spell, Extra Turning (bonus), Power Attack, Divine Might, Iron Will Domains: Take Darkness and Knowledge first. MoS will grant you Death, Evil, and Protection. If you want to know more, go HERE (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=150894&highlight=possessor).
Morka 01-30-04, 02:50 PM	For the STR ability: I'm currently working on an Half-Centaur/half-dragon (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?threadid=173478). Only with both racial adjustments, I get +16 STR, that means I can easily reach a STR of 34 without any magical enhancement. Unfortunately, this ECL 9 beast gets only 2 feats. The current idea is Ride-by-attack and Spirited Charge, using a Large Lance. This way, I can triple my fantastic STR bonus on damage!
catharz 01-30-04, 02:53 PM	Wisdom~ Lawful good: Monk 1/Paladin 4/Sacred fist 8 1:Mnk 1 2:Mnk 1/Pal 1 5:Mnk 1/Pal 4 6:Mnk 1/Pal 4/SF 1 13:Mnk 1/Pal 4/SF 8 Feats: Serenity [Dragon 306], Intuitive strike [BoED], Sacred fist pre-requisites. This build is also good with Vow of poverty (the high ability increases are even better, and weapons and armor are fairly useless). Wisdom to: AC, Saves, Attack (twice with unarmed), Damage, Spells, and Turn undead (which dosen't really matter).
LordShade 01-30-04, 02:58 PM	Sam2/Pal4/Sor2/Arcane Duelist2/IM10/Shiba1/Monk1 Wis to hit and damage and AC Cha to hit/damage (smite), AC, Initiative, damage (Strike from the Void), damage (Divine Might), saves Int to AC Alternately, use cosmopolitan, drop sam2 and 1 level of sorc for 3 levels of Swashbuckler to add Int to damage. I've posted a lot of variants on this basic concept over the past few months.
catharz 01-30-04, 03:02 PM	Wisdom~ Lawful good Mk. II: Paladin 20 Feats: Serenity, Intuitive strike. IMO this build makes strait Paladin doable in a Min/Max party. However, a Monk's belt is rather important to the EQ list, making it a bad choice for VoP-types. This one can actually be very good at undead turning, not to mention smiting evil. But how I wish for a divine spellcasting PrC that grants Divine grace!
catharz 01-30-04, 03:05 PM	Thanks for all the replies. PhaedrusXY, your build is a very interesting way to ignore bad physical stats. I'm sure that Wizard 20 deserves it's place here, so there it is.
LordShade 01-30-04, 04:29 PM	Originally posted by catharz But how I wish for a divine spellcasting PrC that grants Divine grace! Contemplative with mysticism domain edit - the whole trick with the Sorc/Shugenja mystic theurge was stacking Mystic Wanderer and Contemplative onto the build to add cha to AC and saves in addition to double casting from one stat.
horndgod 01-30-04, 04:34 PM	Originally posted by catharz But how I wish for a divine spellcasting PrC that grants Divine grace! Well, there is the Witch Hunter PrC from OA, but it doesn't grant full caster progression.
catharz 01-30-04, 04:51 PM	Hordgod: It grants "Kami's grace," not "Divine grace." Lordshade: That grants the benefits of the Mysticism domain, not "Divine grace." Thank you for the suggestions, though.
catharz 02-02-04, 02:11 PM	Alright, here is my D20 Modern Smart Min/Max prefix: Smart hero 3/Field scientist 1 1:SH 1 3:SH 3 4:SH 3/FS 1 Talent 1: Savant or Linguist. Talent 2: Exploit weakness. In four levels this nets Int to attack (with a check and move-equiv) and Int to AC.
PhaedrusXY 02-02-04, 02:37 PM	Originally posted by catharz Hordgod: It grants "Kami's grace," not "Divine grace." Lordshade: That grants the benefits of the Mysticism domain, not "Divine grace." Thank you for the suggestions, though. What difference does it make? It's all Cha to saves. Why do you want the one specifically called "Divine Grace"?
Snow Savant 02-02-04, 02:41 PM	This Dwarf is Hell on Wheels. He's super-fast, without any equipment or spells. Start him off with a CON of 20, and level him up to 24 (add the last one to DEX). Because of Ninja-8, he adds his (CON Mod. x 5') to his movement. At 20th level, he has a base move of 55' per round. And that's without any enhancement. Not to mention, this Dwarf is tough as nails, and has a boatload of HP's for what is considered to be a hybrid Fighter/Rogue build. He then takes the Spring Attack feat chain to complement his speed. Add to that Singh Rager Pounce, BAB +20 (4 attacks), the TWF feat, EWM Flurry, Chain proficiency, and +6d6 SA, and he will be causing some serious mayhem in melee. Odds are he will not get hit much because of Spring Attacking. And when he does, he has tons of HP's ... making him a hard-as-hell character to kill. Ninja11 / Ftr2 / SinghRager4 / ExoticWeaponMaster3 Oh ... and since this is a wacky thread of sorts, he does change his ethics from NG to LG at one point in his career. That's not too much of a stretch, is it? :P God knows, in real life, I just changed gears from NG to CN just last week. Let's see how long that lasts... XO, Snow :cloud9:
Falido 02-02-04, 03:23 PM	Best Smart hero in D20 modern defenatly uses a massive ammount of savants (10th lvl smart with 5 savants gets 50 extra skill points what more do you want as a smart hero????) :P btw these skill Go ontop of your normal skill points helping you get insane skill roll :P
Hanniball 02-02-04, 03:46 PM	That's not too much of a stretch, is it? God knows, in real life, I just changed gears from NG to CN just last week. Let's see how long that lasts... coffee will do that... druid 20 is highly non-MAD as wisdom is the only attribute that matters for anything after 5th level. of course Swash 3/pal 2/Mnk 2/Duelist X/Shiba 1/Mystic Wan 1/Sor 1/Arcane duel 2/Forsaker X is one of the MADest builds i can think of. either way...just my 0.02 cp
catharz 02-03-04, 03:39 AM	Originally posted by PhaedrusXY What difference does it make? It's all Cha to saves. Why do you want the one specifically called "Divine Grace"? "Divine grace" is required for the feat "Serenity."
PhaedrusXY 02-03-04, 03:56 AM	Originally posted by catharz "Divine grace" is required for the feat "Serenity." What does that do and where is it from?
catharz 02-03-04, 04:14 AM	It is intended for Paladins of Rao and changes the relevant ability score for a number of baladin class features from charisma to wisdom. It is, of course, from Dragon. 306 to be exact.
ShameOnU 02-03-04, 05:35 AM	i Was just wondering were some of all those classes are from. specific. were is the "Mystic Wan", the "SinghRager", "Ninja", "Contemplative", "IM", and the "Shiba", "master of shrouds" and the "Sacred Fist" where are all of those classes from, would aprrciate it :)
Lorimo the Disbeliever 02-03-04, 11:46 AM	Mystic Wanderer - Magic of Faerun Singh Rager - Oriental Adventures Ninja - Rokugan CS Contemplative - Defenders of the Faith IM aka Iaijutsu Master - Oriental Adventures Master of Shrouds - Defenders of the Faith Sacred Fist - Defenders of the Faith Shiba Protector - Oriental Adventures You can find D20 PrC index on www.crystalkeep.com
catharz 02-06-04, 04:41 AM	OK, 2 new versions of the No-MAD Paladin/Monk: Primary Monk~ Monk (Holy) 16/Paladin 4 1:Mnk 1 2:Mnk 1/Pal 1 3:Mnk 1/Pal 2 4:Mnk 2/Pal 2 18:Mnk 16/Pal 2 19:Mnk 16/Pal 3 20:Mnk 16/Pal 4 Primary Paladin~ Monk (Holy) 4/Paladin 16 1:Mnk 1 2:Mnk 1/Pal 1 3:Mnk 1/Pal 2 4:Mnk 2/Pal 2 5:Mnk 2/Pal 3 16:Mnk 2/Pal 14 17:Mnk 3/Pal 14 18:Mnk 4/Pal 14 19:Mnk 4/Pal 15 20:Mnk 4/Pal 16 Feats: Serenity, Intuitive attack, Zen archery. Wisdom to: Saves, AC, attack, Smite evil (as Pal 20), Turn undead (as Pal 20), spells Requisite Shiba protector~ Monk 4/Paladin 15/Shiba protector 1 Feats: Serenity, Expertise, Alertness.