And I always that Intimidate was a Useless Skill [Archive] - Wizards Community

And I always that Intimidate was a Useless Skill [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Andarious
01-08-06, 12:47 PM Race: Half Orc
Barbarian 5
Menacing Brute 5
Dread Pirate (Dishonerable) 5

Effect: All enimies in 30 Feet Subject to Intimidate Skill
Duration of Intimidation: Charisma Modifier +5 Rounds minimum 6 Rounds
Demoralizing Stare Bonus to Intimidate: +5 Competence (+6 could be achieved through DP 10 but I'm sure something better is out there)
Intimidating Rage: As a free action Demoralize a single individual within 30' each round, each individual only once.

Essentially because Fear effects stack you can cause all enimies within 30' to be shaken on the first round of combat. When you enter a rage you may make an intimidate check as a free action against any openent within 30' (it does not say once per round RAW). You could in one round cause all openents within the range to flee in terror.
Andarious
01-09-06, 08:19 PM With the Human Heritage Feat you can have that Half Orc qualify as a Thayan Knight and net another +4 to intimidate as well as some other cool abilities, especially in the case of defending a Red Wizard.
larry_the_titan
01-09-06, 08:35 PM Have you tried that build with a Half-Giant. They are still Half-Human and Powerful Build counts as being large for intimidate and they dont have a Charima Penalty.
Andarious
01-09-06, 08:58 PM Unfortunately Half Giant does not qualify for Menacing Brute (Race: Half Orc), and menacing brute adds one round per level to the duration of your intimidate checks, it also adds a compitence bonus of your level to all Intimidate checks.
So being fair that makes up for the -1 Charisma bonus and the size category you lose out on (All totaling +5). Also without the +1 LA the half orc will by ECL 10 be ahead of the Half Giant by at least 2 for the overall Intimidate check from what I can gather.
Gehenna
01-09-06, 09:10 PM One level of Marshal(Miniature's Handbook) will give you your charisma bonus again as a circumstance bonus to all charisma checks.
JosephKell
01-09-06, 09:20 PM One level of Marshal(Miniature's Handbook) will give you your charisma bonus again as a circumstance bonus to all charisma checks.It is a Half-Orc. What Charisma bonus?

Intimidate is also useful in interrogation because it will make them friendly (from whatever their initial state) temporarily.
aelryinth
01-09-06, 09:33 PM I'm pretty sure there's a feat out there allowing you to use Str for INtimidate, if not an alternate rule allowing the same. Thus, Marshall level could still apply.

==Aelryinth
JosephKell
01-09-06, 09:37 PM I'm pretty sure there's a feat out there allowing you to use Str for INtimidate, if not an alternate rule allowing the same. Thus, Marshall level could still apply.

==AelryinthThere is a feat in Races of Faerun that allows Orcs and Half-Orcs to use Strength for Leadership and Intimidation. But that wouldn't make the Marshal level work.

Marshals add their Charisma modifier for their Minor Auras. Not the appropriate attribute for a skill.
rilem
01-09-06, 10:04 PM It is a Half-Orc. What Charisma bonus?

The Charisma bonus they get when you give them a decent charisma, instead of the 8 that most people do.

Half-OrcParagon2/Paladin4/Marshal3/CWSamurai6/MenacingBrute5 Chuck the Dread Pirate stuff for a Crystal Mask of Dread (+10 Competence Bonus to Intimidate, or grab a Fearsome Mask Soulmeld.

Half-Orc substitution level 2: Foes take-2 penalty on intimidate checks.
Samurai: +4 unnamed bonus to intimidate
Marshal: Cha to Intimidate
Menacing Brute: Another +5
Aura of Glory (Paladin wand): +2 Sacred Bonus

With the mask above and a 16 Cha (easy with a minor Cha-boosting item), and a skill-boosting feat, that's an easy +50 Intimidate Check. I don't agree with that Intimidating Rage interpretation, btw, though I don't have my book in front of me.
Warlock33
01-09-06, 10:09 PM You could also add a dash of exotic weapon master for the "show off" trick. Using the samurai's staredown you could intimidate them as a move action, show off as a standard action, THEN rage as a free action with the appropriate feats. Shaken-Frightened-panicked. In one round. I love it.
Andarious
01-10-06, 07:34 AM Read what Dread Pirate 5 actually does for the Intimidating character. It's not so much about giving them an awesome Intimidate check as it is about enhancing how well that check works. It allows you to when you use intimidate have it affect everyone within 30' instead of just one target, and it makes the duration your Charisma Modifier (Minimum 1 round) then add your Menecing Brute class level to that.

Also Alignment Reqs' prohibit someone from being both a Paladin and a Menecing Brute (LG for paladin, any Non-Good for Menecing Brute). So Barbarian (non-lawful), Menecing Brute (Non-good), Dread Pirate (Non-lawful), Thayan Knight (Non-Good) means any non-lawful, Non-good alagnment works just fine.

Remember this also nets you Intimidate everyone within 30' (multiple uses don't stack, so then make regular intimidate checks as a free action with intimidating rage, that do stack normally once per target per encounter). A +9 to Intimidate checks (+5 Compitence, +4 Morale) and Charisma Modifier +5 (Minimum 6) round to intimidate Duration.

Also remember someone else in the party can be a Motivate Charisma Marshal.
Aufenshauft
01-10-06, 08:35 AM The Champion of Gwenwharyf (sp?) in the BoED also has that ability, but adds to your raging power per day just like a Barb, gets that ability at 4th level, and at 2nd level adds the charisma modifier to saves. In addition, the prerequisite for the class takes a feat that when you crit, the target is also cowered (can't remember the name right now). Sounds like just what you are after. Take the Intimidating Rage and go at it.

Oh, and the class is pretty balanced, if you take away the spellcasting.
PonTelon
01-10-06, 12:03 PM Sounds like fun!
rilem
01-10-06, 12:26 PM I admit I missed that, but if you have access to Incarnum or Psionics my point stands. You can get that mass-intimidate thing through Samurai10 (along with an unnamed bonus to intimidate and better Cha synergy throughout). You'd have to rework the build a bit (Paladin alignment isn't an issue if you can use the variant paladins from UA).

I'm not knocking Dread Pirate; it's nifty if you've already got the boat. If not, though, there are better options.

Champion of Gwynhaarf is better than either choice, of course. Stellar intimidation ability, totally forgot about it. Grab a Mask of Dread or Brass Mane soulmeld on top of that, along with Dreadful Wrath, and you can pretty much forget about either Pirate or Samurai.
Zemyla
01-11-06, 05:46 PM I'm just trying to figure out a way to work dread witch into it. It adds double your dread witch level to intimidate checks.
Dei
01-11-06, 08:59 PM One problem though, nothing wrong with the first round that I can see but in the second round when you make your intimidate against a single opponent, the PHB specifically states that a DM can at will limit the number of free actions taken in a round based on what that action is. Seeing as how this free action involves staring down an opponent for a moment and concentrating your threat on him individually it would be a very rare DM who would let you do this repeatedly in a round. So while theoretically with all sorts of +intimidate tricks you could be pretty sure of causing your subject to flee in terror you'd be limited to only one or two per round. Still impressive but not quite as broken as has been suggested, at least not unless your DM's dumb as a brick over things like this. If he is then best of luck to you though :P .

Peace out
Aufenshauft
01-12-06, 10:05 AM Good point here. There is a problem with over optimizing fear effects, as they can be a real problem when fighting scouts or advance parties. A good DM will roll with it and say that if you are so very menacing, they will use all their powerful one-shot items right away, and only on you. Worse, everyone will just flee first thing. If you panic everyone, you are limited to charge attacks. While this is even a build style, you will not be able to kill off everyone since they get x4 speed and you max out at x2, which brings in the problem with the scouts.

It's best to get them into a scare and one person targeted intimidate. It would end up as:

round 1- Scare everyone to reduce effectiveness, intimidate one target and charge him.

round 2- If the first guy is still up, he has to run, which will be away from the party and you. Charge him again, which will take you behind the party, likely where the spellcasters are at. Intimidate the spellcaster.

round 3- If that first one is still up, you don't deserve to be so scary. Charge that caster and start chain- intimidating at will.

This way you act as a herder. If someone looks really nasty, you can intimidate them and effectively nauseate them (loosing offensive capability but can move). Any more and you better have a spectacular move score to round-em up, or you just scatter them and open yourself up to sniping and guerilla techniques. God forbid them alerting a larger force who opens up the siege weaponry at you.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Andarious 01-08-06, 12:47 PM	Race: Half Orc Barbarian 5 Menacing Brute 5 Dread Pirate (Dishonerable) 5 Effect: All enimies in 30 Feet Subject to Intimidate Skill Duration of Intimidation: Charisma Modifier +5 Rounds minimum 6 Rounds Demoralizing Stare Bonus to Intimidate: +5 Competence (+6 could be achieved through DP 10 but I'm sure something better is out there) Intimidating Rage: As a free action Demoralize a single individual within 30' each round, each individual only once. Essentially because Fear effects stack you can cause all enimies within 30' to be shaken on the first round of combat. When you enter a rage you may make an intimidate check as a free action against any openent within 30' (it does not say once per round RAW). You could in one round cause all openents within the range to flee in terror.
Andarious 01-09-06, 08:19 PM	With the Human Heritage Feat you can have that Half Orc qualify as a Thayan Knight and net another +4 to intimidate as well as some other cool abilities, especially in the case of defending a Red Wizard.
larry_the_titan 01-09-06, 08:35 PM	Have you tried that build with a Half-Giant. They are still Half-Human and Powerful Build counts as being large for intimidate and they dont have a Charima Penalty.
Andarious 01-09-06, 08:58 PM	Unfortunately Half Giant does not qualify for Menacing Brute (Race: Half Orc), and menacing brute adds one round per level to the duration of your intimidate checks, it also adds a compitence bonus of your level to all Intimidate checks. So being fair that makes up for the -1 Charisma bonus and the size category you lose out on (All totaling +5). Also without the +1 LA the half orc will by ECL 10 be ahead of the Half Giant by at least 2 for the overall Intimidate check from what I can gather.
Gehenna 01-09-06, 09:10 PM	One level of Marshal(Miniature's Handbook) will give you your charisma bonus again as a circumstance bonus to all charisma checks.
JosephKell 01-09-06, 09:20 PM	One level of Marshal(Miniature's Handbook) will give you your charisma bonus again as a circumstance bonus to all charisma checks.It is a Half-Orc. What Charisma bonus? Intimidate is also useful in interrogation because it will make them friendly (from whatever their initial state) temporarily.
aelryinth 01-09-06, 09:33 PM	I'm pretty sure there's a feat out there allowing you to use Str for INtimidate, if not an alternate rule allowing the same. Thus, Marshall level could still apply. ==Aelryinth
JosephKell 01-09-06, 09:37 PM	I'm pretty sure there's a feat out there allowing you to use Str for INtimidate, if not an alternate rule allowing the same. Thus, Marshall level could still apply. ==AelryinthThere is a feat in Races of Faerun that allows Orcs and Half-Orcs to use Strength for Leadership and Intimidation. But that wouldn't make the Marshal level work. Marshals add their Charisma modifier for their Minor Auras. Not the appropriate attribute for a skill.
rilem 01-09-06, 10:04 PM	It is a Half-Orc. What Charisma bonus? The Charisma bonus they get when you give them a decent charisma, instead of the 8 that most people do. Half-OrcParagon2/Paladin4/Marshal3/CWSamurai6/MenacingBrute5 Chuck the Dread Pirate stuff for a Crystal Mask of Dread (+10 Competence Bonus to Intimidate, or grab a Fearsome Mask Soulmeld. Half-Orc substitution level 2: Foes take-2 penalty on intimidate checks. Samurai: +4 unnamed bonus to intimidate Marshal: Cha to Intimidate Menacing Brute: Another +5 Aura of Glory (Paladin wand): +2 Sacred Bonus With the mask above and a 16 Cha (easy with a minor Cha-boosting item), and a skill-boosting feat, that's an easy +50 Intimidate Check. I don't agree with that Intimidating Rage interpretation, btw, though I don't have my book in front of me.
Warlock33 01-09-06, 10:09 PM	You could also add a dash of exotic weapon master for the "show off" trick. Using the samurai's staredown you could intimidate them as a move action, show off as a standard action, THEN rage as a free action with the appropriate feats. Shaken-Frightened-panicked. In one round. I love it.
Andarious 01-10-06, 07:34 AM	Read what Dread Pirate 5 actually does for the Intimidating character. It's not so much about giving them an awesome Intimidate check as it is about enhancing how well that check works. It allows you to when you use intimidate have it affect everyone within 30' instead of just one target, and it makes the duration your Charisma Modifier (Minimum 1 round) then add your Menecing Brute class level to that. Also Alignment Reqs' prohibit someone from being both a Paladin and a Menecing Brute (LG for paladin, any Non-Good for Menecing Brute). So Barbarian (non-lawful), Menecing Brute (Non-good), Dread Pirate (Non-lawful), Thayan Knight (Non-Good) means any non-lawful, Non-good alagnment works just fine. Remember this also nets you Intimidate everyone within 30' (multiple uses don't stack, so then make regular intimidate checks as a free action with intimidating rage, that do stack normally once per target per encounter). A +9 to Intimidate checks (+5 Compitence, +4 Morale) and Charisma Modifier +5 (Minimum 6) round to intimidate Duration. Also remember someone else in the party can be a Motivate Charisma Marshal.
Aufenshauft 01-10-06, 08:35 AM	The Champion of Gwenwharyf (sp?) in the BoED also has that ability, but adds to your raging power per day just like a Barb, gets that ability at 4th level, and at 2nd level adds the charisma modifier to saves. In addition, the prerequisite for the class takes a feat that when you crit, the target is also cowered (can't remember the name right now). Sounds like just what you are after. Take the Intimidating Rage and go at it. Oh, and the class is pretty balanced, if you take away the spellcasting.
PonTelon 01-10-06, 12:03 PM	Sounds like fun!
rilem 01-10-06, 12:26 PM	I admit I missed that, but if you have access to Incarnum or Psionics my point stands. You can get that mass-intimidate thing through Samurai10 (along with an unnamed bonus to intimidate and better Cha synergy throughout). You'd have to rework the build a bit (Paladin alignment isn't an issue if you can use the variant paladins from UA). I'm not knocking Dread Pirate; it's nifty if you've already got the boat. If not, though, there are better options. Champion of Gwynhaarf is better than either choice, of course. Stellar intimidation ability, totally forgot about it. Grab a Mask of Dread or Brass Mane soulmeld on top of that, along with Dreadful Wrath, and you can pretty much forget about either Pirate or Samurai.
Zemyla 01-11-06, 05:46 PM	I'm just trying to figure out a way to work dread witch into it. It adds double your dread witch level to intimidate checks.
Dei 01-11-06, 08:59 PM	One problem though, nothing wrong with the first round that I can see but in the second round when you make your intimidate against a single opponent, the PHB specifically states that a DM can at will limit the number of free actions taken in a round based on what that action is. Seeing as how this free action involves staring down an opponent for a moment and concentrating your threat on him individually it would be a very rare DM who would let you do this repeatedly in a round. So while theoretically with all sorts of +intimidate tricks you could be pretty sure of causing your subject to flee in terror you'd be limited to only one or two per round. Still impressive but not quite as broken as has been suggested, at least not unless your DM's dumb as a brick over things like this. If he is then best of luck to you though :P . Peace out
Aufenshauft 01-12-06, 10:05 AM	Good point here. There is a problem with over optimizing fear effects, as they can be a real problem when fighting scouts or advance parties. A good DM will roll with it and say that if you are so very menacing, they will use all their powerful one-shot items right away, and only on you. Worse, everyone will just flee first thing. If you panic everyone, you are limited to charge attacks. While this is even a build style, you will not be able to kill off everyone since they get x4 speed and you max out at x2, which brings in the problem with the scouts. It's best to get them into a scare and one person targeted intimidate. It would end up as: round 1- Scare everyone to reduce effectiveness, intimidate one target and charge him. round 2- If the first guy is still up, he has to run, which will be away from the party and you. Charge him again, which will take you behind the party, likely where the spellcasters are at. Intimidate the spellcaster. round 3- If that first one is still up, you don't deserve to be so scary. Charge that caster and start chain- intimidating at will. This way you act as a herder. If someone looks really nasty, you can intimidate them and effectively nauseate them (loosing offensive capability but can move). Any more and you better have a spectacular move score to round-em up, or you just scatter them and open yourself up to sniping and guerilla techniques. God forbid them alerting a larger force who opens up the siege weaponry at you.