Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Pallin Rahl 05-31-06, 01:50 PM	(Gah... board hiccup nuked the long thread I had just written... well, here goes again) I know what you're thinking. "...but, Clerics know all the spells on their list - if they're of a level to be able to cast them... they just need to prepare them." Normally, you'd be totally right. However, for an upcoming Ravenloft-esque campaign, I'll be playing a Cleric... using the Spontaneous Divine casting rules from UA. (To be more specific, I'll be working towards a Spiked-Chain-wielding Fighter 2 / Cleric 18 ...trying to balance strong melee proficiency with support/healing/etc). If interested, you can check out the Spontaneous Divine casting rules here: http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/35/sovelior_sage/unearthedClasses.html (under SPONTANEOUS DIVINE CASTERS) ...the gist of it, though: You're basically a Divine Sorcerer. You can spontaneously cast all your known spells, but you have to choose spells to add to your "known" list as you level. In addition to those spells you choose, you get to add your Domain Spells (whenever you reach the appropriate levels to cast them). This, of course, makes your Domain choices even more important. I will be taking the Time Domain (some nice stuff... True Strike, Hasten, Time Stop, etc.) and the Healing Domain (healing goodness abounds... this will add most of the heals I need). So, the big question: What Cleric spells do you consider "must haves"? Now, yes... there will be some wiggle room for preference, etc - but I'm sure there are "take this no matter what" spells out there... and (as I have to choose my spells carefully) I don't want to miss out on anything important. Note 1: As mentioned, I want to balance the character's solid melee prowess and support/healing/etc. ...and want to take spells to back this concept up. Note 2: We'll be starting at level 6. Books Allowed: Core, PH2, Complete books, FR, Draconomicon, Ravenloft (and the Spell Compendium ...though I don't have access to it to reference at the moment, a friend will be bringing the SC to the game).
UMiskatonic 05-31-06, 03:44 PM	Well, given your build, I'd skip out on damage-dealing spells. That's what the spiked chain is for. I'd also skip out on spells that are only good once in a while, (water breathing) and look at spells which will be useful all the time, which is how I build my sorcerors. These are the spells I would REALLY want. Zero level: Light, Detect Magic 1st level: Bless, Magic Weapon (switch later), Pro Evil 2nd level: Lesser Restoration, Bear's Endurance, Bull's Str 3rd level: Dispel Magic, Mass Conviction 4th level: Divine Power 5th level: 6th level: Heroes' Feast
Pallin Rahl 05-31-06, 05:13 PM	...good start. :) Keep 'em coming! :D
DruidWannabe 05-31-06, 05:38 PM	I like Divine Favor and Shield of Faith. Also Greater Magic Weapon and Greater Magic Armor. That way you can load up on enhancments on items and still have plus five.
Avanter 05-31-06, 07:26 PM	I have to say Prayer is one of the best cleric spells, and I would strongly suggest taking it with dispel magic for 3rd level spells. You and your buddies get +1 luck bonus to everything but AC, and your foes get -1 to everything, sans AC, No save. Very very good to drop in the first round of combat.
Timlagor 05-31-06, 08:55 PM	Create Water Recitation Lesser Vigor Some Cures Heal Restoration I don't like the Attribute Boosters myself (except for crafting). They certainly aren't essential.
Kresalak 05-31-06, 09:53 PM	Rightous Might is 10 kinds of awesome in a 5 pound bag.
Pallin Rahl 06-01-06, 12:15 PM	All goodies noted, thus far ;) ...beyond the general discussion of "must have Cleric spells", feel free to also focus a bit more on the earlier level spells. They're of particular interest to me, as I'll have to be choosing 0-3rd or 4th level spells in the very near future - and any suggestions are all useful in helping me decide. :)
Namarus 06-01-06, 01:17 PM	I like using spiritual weapon at higher levels, lasts for ages, and you can still contribute to damage while healing. The Insigna line of spells are also good, Insignia of Healing is a nice one at lower levels.
The_Monkey_King 06-01-06, 01:48 PM	Panacea is a must have 4th level spell, in my book. Calm Emotions is so very very useful, I'd take it before stat bumping. Close wounds is a great spell if your DM is actually willing to kill someone.
Sir Gummibaerchen 06-01-06, 02:17 PM	Greater Magic Weapon and Magic Vestment are a given. They save you a truckload of money on equipment. Superior Resistance from the SC is really cool, especially when combined with extend spell. Energy Immunity adds even more protection. Dragon Breath is one of the best offensive spells ever, it is versatile, scales nicely and lasts through most combat encounters. Extend for more fun. You should really, and I am quite stressing this, try to add some PrC that increases your number of Domains. Like the Contemplative from CD. Or the Dracolyte from the Drac. Or the Divine Disciple from PGtF. Good Domains include, but are not limited to: Travel, Trickery, Planning, Magic, Spell, Pride Are you set on the spontaneous cleric? I'm asking, because, from a CO-perspective, it quite blows when compared to the regular cleric. You have the same nuber of spells/day, but you lose one of the cleric's most valuable assets: The sheer, utter versatility of having your WHOLE spell list available, not limited to a selection from a spellbook or a small list of spells known. If at all possible within your character concept, do not do this. Maybe you would like to pick the "spontaneous domain spells" variant from the PHB2, which is both cool and crazy frickin powerful.
Cale_Myrkwood 06-01-06, 02:28 PM	Triadspell is a nice 5th level spell if you cant find anything else to prepare for 5th lvl. It lets you cast a spell of 3rd lvl or lower 3 times from the same spell slot.
Alienfreak 06-01-06, 02:46 PM	1: Cure Light W., Bless, Shield of Faith, Prot fr whatever 2: Hold Person, Delay Poison, Cure Mod. W., Silence 3: Blindness/Deafness, Dispel Magic, Invisibility Purge, Cure Ser. W. 4: Divine Power, Death Ward, Freedom of Movement, Spell Immunity 5: Rightous Might, Flame Strike, True Seeing, Plane Shift 6: Heal, Word of Recall, Dispel Magic Greater, Find the Path 7: Destruction, Holy Word (or whatever), Repulsion, 8: Discern Location, Greater Spell Immunity, Transdimensional Lock 9: Miracle, Energy Drain, Mass Heal
Pallin Rahl 06-01-06, 02:59 PM	Are you set on the spontaneous cleric? Yes and no. (confused yet? :P ) There are few caster-related things I hate more than playing a caster that prepares their spells (wizard, cleric, etc) ...and ending up in a situation where I'm screwed because I've either run out of prepared copies of a needed spell ...or worse yet, I "know" the spell (or could have prepared it) but didn't for whatever reason. Nothing like going on a non-water-related mission (thus, no need to assume you'd need a water breathing spell) and drowning when you know you could have prepared a water breathing spell you know. However, I am fully aware that the versitility of the Cleric's spell list is damn nice. Eh... I'll keep an open mind. Feel free to convince me. :D
kingrat55 06-01-06, 03:37 PM	from a 35 half-fey adventurer (Tymora Auspician), must have spells to pray: 1: Resurgence, Bless, Endure Elements, Prot from Evil... 2: Blade Brothers, Insight of Good Fortitude, Divine Insight, Silence. 3: Alter Fortitude, Dispel Magic, Invisibility Purge, Sheltered Vitality. 4: Assay Resistance, Death Ward, Freedom of Mov., Recitation, Dim. Lock. 5: Rightous Might, Divine Agility ,True Seeing, Plane Shift. 6: Heal, Dispel Magic Greater, Ghosttrap, Energy Immunity. 7: Spell Resistance mass, Fortunate Fate, Restoration Greater. 8: Death ward mass, Greater Spell Immunity, Dim. Anchor, Vision of Futur. 9: Miracle, Sublime Revelry, Mass Heal. I'm never using low level spells cure, and i have Travel Domaine, so i never use Word of recall.
starofdavid 06-01-06, 06:49 PM	i think personally u should try the favored soul in place of the "spontanious clerc"
Gavinfoxx 06-01-06, 07:34 PM	http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=575212 http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=605481 edit: oh, you want a spontaneous cleric? Ugh... don't... get a bunch of scrolls, you can get a few domains, get all your domains as spontaneous... really, spending money on lots of scrolls means you would have access to all the spells you need. In what situations have you ever been caught with the extreme need for a spell and not enough of them prepared? Why? What is it that makes it so you hate preparing spells, specifically?
Pallin Rahl 06-01-06, 07:50 PM	i think personally u should try the favored soul in place of the "spontanious clerc" I won't be using my deity's favored weapon (thus the weapon focus & spec would be wasted). No Domains = yuck etc... etc... I'm not saying Favored Souls suck, I'd just prefer to play a Cleric over one. ----- What is it that makes it so you hate preparing spells, specifically? As I said... I hate getting stuck in situations where I have the spell on my "known" list, but don't have a prepared one left to cast (or didn't prepare it at all). However, as I said, I'm open to the idea of playing a standard Cleric... feel free to convince me. :) Note: "Buy tons of scrolls" isn't that great an option... as I just know I won't be rolling in cash constantly. :P
King_Bulba 06-02-06, 12:06 AM	I'm not saying Favored Souls suck, I'd just prefer to play a Cleric over one. Well I will... Favored Souls suck. If they didnt have a delayed spell progression I might change my mind but they do.
Sir Gummibaerchen 06-02-06, 02:59 AM	As I said... I hate getting stuck in situations where I have the spell on my "known" list, but don't have a prepared one left to cast (or didn't prepare it at all). However, as I said, I'm open to the idea of playing a standard Cleric... feel free to convince me. :) Note: "Buy tons of scrolls" isn't that great an option... as I just know I won't be rolling in cash constantly. :P I'm not trying to convince you to play something you don't want to play. I just think that "not always having the right spell prepaired" is a nonissue when compared to "not having access to the right spell at all". As I already said, you should take a look on the "spontaneous divine casting" cleric "substitution level" from the PHBII (as you list it available). With the right picks (some good choices were already mentioned), you really kick some major butt. Always remember to use the oh-so-broken spells that are available through the FR splat books (ever seen Sunrod from LEoF?). Of course it is imperative that you put some thought into your daily selection of spells, but you have certain advantages when compared to other prepairing spellcasters, like the wizard: [list] You can cast sanctified spells spontainously. Look into CoV for some good ones. You have more spells/day You have a lot of long-lasting buff spells, so pick a few good ones and fill the rest with a mix of other useful spells. Look at JustFluor's entries in the gish contest to see what a cleric can do and still have a lot of spells left (The Sophisticator (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=9211996&postcount=36), Judge Dredd (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=9211438&postcount=35) ) But admittedly, this is going off-topic. If we want to discuss this furhter, you should start a new thread, as I don't want to derail your thread any further. And Miracle is a must have.
Brendan Candries 06-02-06, 08:24 AM	What is it that makes it so you hate preparing spells, specifically? Game downtime.
Brendan Candries 06-02-06, 08:35 AM	I won't be using my deity's favored weapon (thus the weapon focus & spec would be wasted). The PHBII offers a nice variant for these feats: Deity's Favor. At level 3, every spell you cast comes with 3x spell level temporary hitpoints for one ally (including yourself) affected by the spell. At level 12 all your affected allies get those hps.
Tweedledope 06-02-06, 09:43 AM	Revivify. I LOVE that spell. If your ally falls and you can get to him within one round...boom, instant extra life. ;) Did I mention that it's relatively low level (4 IIRC). -=TD=-
JJeff 06-02-06, 12:59 PM	Revivify is Level 5. Ray of Resurgence (LEoF 33)is good for Str Drain, which is very common in Ravenloft due to the type of enemies you should be facing. Restoration spells (lesser, etc) due to the type of enemies you will face in the Mists Dispel is a MUST IMHO Mass Convictions (SpC 52)for those pessy Horror/Fear/Madness saves Mass Resist Elements (SpC 174)is very good.... Searing Light is a very good Offensive, anti-undead spell Assay Resistance (SpC 17)is good if you expect any SR-ed enemies Divine Power if you expect Melee situations Recitation (SpC 170) is also a good group buff Sheltered Vitality (SpC 188) is great against draining Mass Curse of Ill Fortune (SpC 56)is good for debuffing enemies Dispel Evil for those pesky Outsider types Righteous Wrath of the Faithful (SpC177) is a great Group Buff Righteous Might for the Combat Situations Greater Dispel is always useful Undeath to Death for days when your Turn undead rolling sucks Mass Spell Resistance (SpC 199) can save lives in a heated spell battle for the tanks Fortunate Fate (SpC 99) has saved many lives in my party. Holy Word is good for the evils you will face Mass Death Ward (SpC 61)= No drains for everyone Miracle .... Duh....
Timlagor 06-02-06, 01:12 PM	Mass Resist Energy is a foolishly low level.
Dirty Dan the Laundry Man 09-03-06, 03:06 PM	Triadspell is a nice 5th level spell if you cant find anything else to prepare for 5th lvl. It lets you cast a spell of 3rd lvl or lower 3 times from the same spell slot.This spell is banned in Living Greyhawk I believe. For good reason too. In casual play, this spell always seems like a no-brainer to get 9 spell levels of magic via a 5th level slot. Anybody else have any interesting stories about this spell?
Cuchulainshound 09-03-06, 05:03 PM	Thread-o-mancy at its worst. The last response was almost 100 days ago, sport, June 2nd. That cleric is built and probably dead twice already by now.:P
Endarire 09-03-06, 08:38 PM	I vote sanctuary. At levels when almost everything can see invisibility, being able to target critters only after passing a Will save can be debilitating. It saved our party's life once! -EE
PhoenixInferno 09-03-06, 08:48 PM	Thread-o-mancy at its worst. The last response was almost 100 days ago, sport, June 2nd. That cleric is built and probably dead twice already by now.:PWhich doesn't make it any less useful for people like...myself for example, who are interested in getting the community's opinion on "must-have" Cleric spells. Triadspell IS disturbing.
ChristopherGroves 09-03-06, 09:24 PM	There are alot of good swift/immediate cleric spells now in the SPC and PHB2 in addition to the list above. They are on my favored soul list and fit spontaneous cleric pretty well. Close Wounds - 2nd Energy Aegis - 3rd Are the most useful. Beyond that all the standards.
Alienfreak 09-04-06, 02:11 PM	Celestial Brilliance is so wonderfully broken :) 1d6 to all undead every round in 60 ft radius 2d6 to all evil outsiders and undeads vulnerable to light every round in 60ft. And the duration is even 1day/lvl!
Book 09-04-06, 02:31 PM	I will concur with Dirty Dan and PhoenixInferno ...... Triadspell is a bit unbalanced.
Bregan 09-04-06, 02:53 PM	CL1 Night Shield CL2 Stabilize CL3 Mark of Doom Most of this stuff is from the Spell Compendium. Such a good book. {edit} someone already said Triadspell /blind
Alienfreak 09-04-06, 03:01 PM	Noone has mentioned Fleshripper yet! 1d8/lvl, max of 10d8, close range, ranged touch, no save, typeless damage!