Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Callista 02-09-05, 12:28 PM	I'd like your opinions on this PrC... whether the prereqs are worth it, whether it's a good idea, and generally how to build a character to use it... Edit: changed the name of the PrC to the proper name... sorry about that...
rilem 02-09-05, 12:44 PM	Hmmm.... Devoted Inquisitor is a feat from Complete Adventurer, not a Prestige Class. Prestige Classes with similar names include Devoted Defender (S&F) Church Inquistor (CD) Shadowbane Inquisitor (CAdv.) All are very nice.
Votan 02-09-05, 12:56 PM	Hmmm.... Devoted Inquisitor is a feat from Complete Adventurer, not a Prestige Class. Prestige Classes with similar names include Devoted Defender (S&F) Church Inquistor (CD) Shadowbane Inquisitor (CAdv.) All are very nice. Actually, I was thinking of starting a thread on the Shadowbane Inquisitor . The reason is while I think the flavor is amazing, I am not sure how when the abilities of a Paladin and Rogue synergize. One is a pure skill monkey focusing on surprise attacks. The other is weak on skills and acts as an immobile tank. Clearly the classic combination won't be an option. I also worry about ability scores. With an elite array I would do the following for the two subclasses (assume human): ROGUE STR 12 DEX 15 CON 14 INT 13 WIS 8 CHA 10 PALADIN STR 14 DEX 8 CON 12 INT 10 WIS 13 CHA 15 Notice the wide variations in ability score allocation. A proto-Shadowbane Inquistor would be: STR 12 DEX 12 CON 14 INT 13 WIS 8 CHA 15 Which seems to be a brutal compromise. Has anybody had any luck getting this class to work?
Neluril Xor'alinn 02-09-05, 01:11 PM	Actually my DM is starting a campiagn where I am focusing on becoming a Shadowbane Inquisitor. As we rolled stats I came up with Str 17, Dex 12, Con 14, Int 11, Wis 13, Cha 15. Which is pretty nice considering, but I like the combination of Paladin and Rogue. You can still have a great fighter with Paladin abilities, and then adding a few Rogue levels gives access to SA and Evasion. I find the rogue skills useful for boosting the skills that the Inquisitor seems benfit from namely Hide and Move Silently. I really like this PrC overall.
Callista 02-09-05, 01:29 PM	Yes, sorry--Shadowbane Inquisitor. A friend and I were talking over IM and apparently he got things mixed up...
Callista 02-09-05, 05:28 PM	So has anyone used the PrC? I'm not realy sure how to make use of it...
JosephKell 02-09-05, 05:35 PM	Rogue 2/Paladin 4/Shadbow Inquisitor 10 might be a good start.
FabulousRex 02-09-05, 06:24 PM	One thing you should know, is that to be an Inquisitor, you need to be able to cast 1st-level spells, so you can't make WIS a dump stat. A better allocation might be: STR 12 DEX 15 CON 8 INT 14 WIS 12 CHA 13 I know having a bad CON score sounds like suicide, but a crucial feat to help this loss is Improved Toughness from the CW, which directly offsets your loss of hp. Also remeber that a Paladin has a strong Fort save, d10HD, and you can add your CHA to saves as well. Alternatively, you could take STR 8, and focus more on sneaking and use Finesse weapons. Either way would be tough, early on. No matter what you do, make your first good magic item a +2 to the stat you dump, because they're ALL important. As far as progression, Rogue first level for obvious reasons. Then 3 of Paladin, one more Rogue, and at 6th Paladin again. Spreading out the Rogue levels gives you a much higher max skill rank, while the Paladin levels are there mostly to help you survive. I think the most important thing to remember is that a Paladin doesn't need to be immoble with huge armor/weapons. A chain shirt and shortsword will do nicely, as well as keep the Inquisitor's Paladin nature a bit better hidden.
LordArkan 02-09-05, 07:01 PM	Rogue 2/Paladin 4/Shadbow Inquisitor 10 might be a good start. How about Rogue 2/Blackguard 4/Shadowbane Inquisitor 10? :smirk:
JosephKell 02-09-05, 07:22 PM	How about Rogue 2/Blackguard 4/Shadowbane Inquisitor 10? :smirk:Sounds like a Zealous Knight of the Sacred Flame... perfect for Eberron. But if you were going to go that route, I would go Rogue 3/Blackguard 7/Shadowbane Inquisitor 10 to get the Fiendish Companion to be able to take the Nightmare Steed feat (Dungeon #100) to have a Nightmare to ride.
PhoenixInferno 02-09-05, 07:25 PM	1)Shadowbane Inquisitor requires Lawful Good 2)You'd never be able to qualify for Blackguard at level 3. 3)Even if you did the level exchange for Pal->Blackguard, I believe you still need to retain one Paladin level.
JosephKell 02-09-05, 07:43 PM	1)Shadowbane Inquisitor requires Lawful Good 2)You'd never be able to qualify for Blackguard at level 3. 3)Even if you did the level exchange for Pal->Blackguard, I believe you still need to retain one Paladin level.That is where the Shadowbane Inquisitor comes in. It stacks with Paladin levels for the Blackguard conversion. So the levels you keep are Shadowbane Inquisitor levels.
PhoenixInferno 02-09-05, 07:50 PM	Ewww... Thanks JK
Callista 02-10-05, 02:48 PM	I wonder... Could you dump Strength (*shiver*), take a lot of Rogue levels to get Sneak Attack to make it up (Weapon Finesse of course... rapier probably... with Improved Feint), and then take only a few Paladin levels before taking the PrC? You'd end up starting at a higher level than normally... but Rogue is a pretty strong class all on its own, I think. Also: Can you fulfill the ability to cast 1st-level spells with a Rogue's Use Magic Device, trained until you only fail to use a 1st level scroll on a roll of 1?
JosephKell 02-10-05, 02:54 PM	You need 4 levels of Paladin to get Turn Undead. I would make the Shadowbane Inquisitor like you make a Paladin. And just tack on the Rogue levels. And technically you need a Strength of at least 13 to get Power Attack which is required to become a Shadowbane Inquisitor.
LordKiwi 02-10-05, 05:35 PM	This class seems designed to be mixed with Blackguard. It even gives you improved sunfer as a bonus feat (prerequ for Blackguard). Probably my favourite build is... Paladin 4 / Rogue 1 / Shadow Bane Inquisitor 7 Then become a black guard and trade in all your paladin levels for... Blackguard 5 / Rogue 1 / Shadow Bane Inquisitor 7 And then finish it off with... Blackguard 7 / Rogue 2 / Shadow Bane Inquisitor 7 / Nar Demon Binder 4 OR Blackguard 7 / Rogue 2 / Shadow Bane Inquisitor 7 / Nar Demon Binder 2 / Mystic Theurge 2 OR Blackguard 7 / Rogue 1 / Shadow Bane Inquisitor 7 / Nar Demon Binder 2 / Spell Sword 3 Depending on whether you like.... 1. Nar Demon Binder class abilities 2. more arcane/divine spells. 3. extra feats/armoured casting A solid fighter build throughout with a decent level of stealth and magical suport, ending with some nice levels of arcane power. Only really lacking feats. Lord Kiwi,
JosephKell 02-10-05, 06:27 PM	This class seems designed to be mixed with Blackguard. It even gives you improved sunfer as a bonus feat (prerequ for Blackguard). Probably my favourite build is... Paladin 4 / Rogue 1 / Shadow Bane Inquisitor 7Need a BAB of +5. So you need another level of Paladin or Rogue in there. Basically you either go for the Special Mount or more skill points (Evasion is useless in heavy armor).
Callista 02-10-05, 08:06 PM	But there is the problem... My DM has a "Only Non-Evil" rule... you turn Evil, you find yourself an NPC... too many experiences with people playing Stupid Evil characters, apparently. So I can't do anything with the Blackguard...
JosephKell 02-10-05, 09:09 PM	Nothing wrong with Rogue 1/Paladin 5/Shadowbane Inquisitor X.
Votan 02-10-05, 09:41 PM	Nothing wrong with Rogue 1/Paladin 5/Shadowbane Inquisitor X. Hmmm.... But if you are a rogue 1/Paladin 5/ShadowBane Inquistor 10 what is the best way to mark the 4 levels before you become epic (and can advance into ShadowBane Inquistor 11)?
Timespike 02-10-05, 09:49 PM	I'd personally say rogue 3/paladin 4/Shadowbane Inquisitor 10/skullclan hunter 3 would be a good way to go. Sneak attack undead, BAB of 18, 6d6 sneak attack... You WANT that second level of rogue for evasion; evasion plus divine grace is a little too good to pass up. Also, consider the following for the character: STR 14 DEX 8 CON 10 INT 12 WIS 13 CHA 15 (Put your level 4 raise into WIS so you can cast divine sacrifice) The DEX penalty will hurt you a LOT less than one to any of your other stats will. Use high skill ranks and grab some gloves of dexterity when you can.
catharz 02-10-05, 10:10 PM	That is where the Shadowbane Inquisitor comes in. It stacks with Paladin levels for the Blackguard conversion. So the levels you keep are Shadowbane Inquisitor levels. HOLY JESUS ****!!! Nice one there, Kiwi. I'm going to have to mull over the Devoted inquisitor/Nar demonbinder now, I had totally passed that class up.
JosephKell 02-10-05, 10:31 PM	You WANT that second level of rogue for evasion; evasion plus divine grace is a little too good to pass up.Evasion doesn't work when you wear Medium or Heavy Armor. And the Shadowbane Inquisitor is very much a Paladin class. It isn't worth investing all that much in Dexterity to make up for real armor.
catharz 02-11-05, 01:16 AM	Sorry if this doesn't help Calista... Antipaladin~ Human Rogue 1/Paladin 5/Shadowbane inquisitor [CAd] 6/Blackguard 1 ->Rog 1/SI 3/Blackguard 7 ->Rog 1/SI 3/Blg 7/Nar demonbinder [UE] 1/Strifeleader [F&P] 8 1:Rog 1 |--------------------|+0 | 0/2/0 |1d6 2:Rog 1/Pal 1 |--------------|+1 | 2/2/0 |1d6+1d10 6:Rog 1/Pal 5 |--------------|+5 | 4/3/1 |1d6+5d10 7:Rog 1/Pal 5/SI 1 |---------|+6 | 6/3/1 |1d6+6d10 12:Rog 1/Pal 5/SI 6 |--------|+11|10/5/3 |1d6+11d10 13:Rog 1/Pal 5/SI 6/Blg 1|---------------| 11:Rog 1/SI 3/Blg 7 |--------|+10| 8/5/3 |1d6+10d10|CL 7 12:Rog 1/SI 3/Blg 7/ND 1 |---|+10| 8/5/5 |2d6+10d10|CL 7/1 13:Rog 1/SI 3/Blg 7/ND 1/SL 1|+10|10/5/7 |3d6+10d10|CL 7/1 20:Rog 1/SI 3/Blg 7/ND 1/SL 8|+16|14/7/11|10d6+10d10|CL 7/7 Feats~ 1(Human: Power attack, Level: Iron will), 3(Level: Weapon focus (longsword)), 6(Level: OPEN), 9(Level: Spell focus (Conjuration)), 12(Level: Spell focus (Illusion)), 15(Level: Nightmare steed [Dng 100]), 18(Level: Open). SAD: 5d6. Spells: 4th level divine, 8th level arcane. Nar bemonbinder? Rigid feat selection. Strifeleader 8? Blackguard level jockying. Bringing back the flavor of the Dragon #38 Anitpaladin? Priceless.
Callista 02-13-05, 02:26 AM	I like it... it's a cool build. And there's nothing to say my DM won't lighten up about evil characters, or that we'll switch DMs to one who isn't so iffy about it. Though, I'll admit... there are people in my group who would ruin a campaign if they played Evil... y'know, the "Meteor Swarm that village, kill the kids and kick the puppies" type... Me, I'd rather play the sort of Evil that is a real, interesting person who is only cruel when it means they profit. LE/NE types, I guess. And a corrupted paladin seem like a really interesting character to pursue... especially with a Rogue's chaotic bent to turn him/her away from the code in the Chaotic direction... then once he's fallen and figures it doesn't matter anyway, he can start doing the NE thing... Until then, though... *sigh* Paladin it is. Not that playing LG when I myself am CG is not a challenge, mind you. (Yeah, I'm one of those "role-players"... I'm trying to power-game a little so my concepts will be useful to the party...) I really, really hate heavy armor though. I prefer to be as mobile as possible; if it fit the character I've actually taken a level of Barbarian, in some cases, just for the extra movement (and a d12 and Rage comes in handy too). The Tumble skill, combined with my group's tendency towards big parties (lots of people to flank with) and my own love of Sneak Attacks mean I really do prefer Dexterity over Strength, though I'll definitely avoid actual Strength penalties. Of course, I could always concentrate on Charisma (good for the Turn Undead, Smite, and Lay on Hands too), max out Bluff, and use Improved Feint to get those sneak attacks in. My last Rogue had the feat Quicker than the Eye. I think it mimics Improved Feint for one feat rather than two, with characters of extremely high dexterity... I forget--17 or some such--and I liked the fact that I could feint, Tumble, *and* have that second feat to play around with. I don't think you can spend a 17 in Dex on a Paladin/Rogue though. If I'm not mistaken, Paladin is one of those classes where multiple stats are important... STR to hit hard with Smite Evil, CHA for undead-turning and LoH purposes... is Ride a DEX-based skill?... and then of course you always want CON... and WIS is the spellcasting stat. Ouch! I've seen archery-based Paladin builds, though--that seems a bit more Rogue-ish to me; and it allows you to stay out of range so you don't really need the heavy armor... I was thinking a Halfling with a Blink Dog mount... easy to flank with a mount who can pop in and out of the ethereal plane. (Can you do that, just so long as you're not actually mounted on the dog at the time?)
catharz 02-13-05, 07:33 PM	I like it... it's a cool build. And there's nothing to say my DM won't lighten up about evil characters, or that we'll switch DMs to one who isn't so iffy about it. Though, I'll admit... there are people in my group who would ruin a campaign if they played Evil... y'know, the "Meteor Swarm that village, kill the kids and kick the puppies" type... Me, I'd rather play the sort of Evil that is a real, interesting person who is only cruel when it means they profit. LE/NE types, I guess. And a corrupted paladin seem like a really interesting character to pursue... especially with a Rogue's chaotic bent to turn him/her away from the code in the Chaotic direction... then once he's fallen and figures it doesn't matter anyway, he can start doing the NE thing... Glad you like it! And good luck ;) I have trouble playing paladins, mainly because I find the classical 'knight's code' both hypocritical and counter-productive. But that is what makes it fun! If I'm not mistaken, Paladin is one of those classes where multiple stats are important... STR to hit hard with Smite Evil, CHA for undead-turning and LoH purposes... is Ride a DEX-based skill?... and then of course you always want CON... and WIS is the spellcasting stat. Ouch! 1) Str has nothing to do with hitting hard with smite evil. Smite is nothing but Cha, and if you can do it a lot it lowers the need for Str. 2) Dex is completely unimportant for your average pally. Ride skill checks never have a high enough DC to really neccesitate and Dex bonus (even with Mounted cvombat), and with your average pally wearing full plate (and the cost of +Dex), any investment is pretty much wasted. 3) Wisdom never needs be higher than 14. 4) Turn undead is never especially effective with a paladin. Clerics tend to have trouble turning without lots of feats, items, and domains. 5) Con is, of course, vital to everyone. Specific builds, of course, don't neccisarily follow that paradigm. I've seen archery-based Paladin builds, though--that seems a bit more Rogue-ish to me; and it allows you to stay out of range so you don't really need the heavy armor... I was thinking a Halfling with a Blink Dog mount... easy to flank with a mount who can pop in and out of the ethereal plane. (Can you do that, just so long as you're not actually mounted on the dog at the time?) IMO the best light-armored paladin build is the Monk of Rao. You need to use Dragon 306, and Dragon 310 helps. The base is Monk 1/Paladin 2, preferably with the Holy monk variant. At level 3, you take the Serenity feat from 306. Serenity lets a paladin (or anyone with Divine grace who worships Rao) use wisdom in place of charisma for all class abilities. Which basically eliminates MAD, and makes a lightly-armored paladin possible. If you wanted to play an unarmored paladin/rogue (and don't mind loosing some BAB in the process), Rogue 1/Paladin 2/Monk 1 is a great start. Pick up Zen archery and/or the 'wisdom to attack with simple weapons' feat in BoED and Serenity. Then (depending on your DM's multiclassing rules and which--if any--class variants you are using) advance to Rogue 3/Paladin 4/Monk 1, Rogue 1/Paladin 4/Monk 2, or Rogue 1/Paladin 2/Monk 2 for your full suite of abilities.