"Think like an arcade game, with lots of Undead. Level 15." [Archive] - Wizards Community

"Think like an arcade game, with lots of Undead. Level 15." [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Dnjscott
11-12-06, 01:15 PM Well, the title pretty much says it all, right?

I guess this is some sort of monster mash game. Okie Dokie.

When I hear 'arcade game' and 'hoardes of undead', I think Warlock. Unlimited uses and all.

Luckily, Complete Mage has two Warlocks that are good against Undead--Enlightened Spirit and Eldritch Disciple. UNfortunately, the ED is a split caster with all that entails... I thought I might be better off iwth the simplicity of the Enlightened Spirit.

So, Warlock 1-5 then Enlightened Spirit 6-15.

ES gives me permanent Death Ward and extra damage against undead, which is nice.

It seems like a sure-fire winner, but one thing worries me:

What happens after level 15? Do you go back to Warlock? I mean, ES doesn't technically raise your Warlock casting level, instead giving bonus damage, so I guess then you're stuck building up Warlock caster 6-10?

So... no Dark invocations ever?

Or, any suggestion for a next step? Seems like you can't really advance your core casting after level 15, which seems like a pretty lousy idea, IMHO.
HaikenEdge
11-12-06, 01:33 PM Depending on what you consider cheese and how your DM rules level loss, you might want to try the following:

Start with Warlock 5/Enlightened Spirit 6. Then get level drained and lose all 5 of your warlock levels, so you're basically Enlightened Spirit 6 and don't lose access to any of your class abilities. From there, you'll have 10 levels to play with, possibly grabbing some levels in non-casting classes that focus on destroying undead. If all else fails and your DM permits, you could conceivably pick up Wild Talent and then grab 10 levels of Slayer for a +17 BAB.

Just remember, though, that the Warlock's greatest strength is UMD. So, going with Warlock 5/Enlightened Spirit 10/Warlock +5 doesn't really lose anything aside from not being able to craft items. Then again, the only Dark Invocation I like is Word of Changing, so there is that.
swanyusd
11-12-06, 01:46 PM What about soulknife10/IllumineSoul5. Thats a pretty steady undead combatting combination.

I think its fair to say no DM ever would allow you to pick and choose which levels you lose, and then give you more to pick from as you only have a certain amount of xp to start with. Even emancipated spawn cheese wouldn't work with that concept.

Otherwise, I think warlock 15 would be a better choice. The damage difference is pretty negligible, and you get better invocations to work with.

Could you play a necromancer? You could control some of the undead horde and have them attack the other undead that are coming at you. With command undead feature (ala neutral/evil cleric) you could keep turning the undead back upon themselves.

Just my 2cp

-Swany
Dnjscott
11-12-06, 06:15 PM Yeah, I dunno about that level loss. I guess the WL 10 / ES 10 could be not so bad, really. I'll look it over again...

I'll check out the Dread Necro/Death Master/Death Delver Caucaus--not sure if the DM will go for evil-ish or not.

Ah, Ilumine Soul. I knew there was a pretty cool looking undead fighter in a recent book. Couldn't think of what it was.

Thanks!
Talkkno
11-12-06, 07:47 PM Ilumine Soul is found in Complete Psionic.
NatchFeral
11-12-06, 08:00 PM The spell Celestial Brilliance (BoED) is Cleric 4 and does 1d6/2d6 points of damage per round to all undead/evil outsiders within 60 feet, and lasts 1day/level.

Use it and be safe, even at night.
ChristopherGroves
11-12-06, 08:22 PM For non-caster-ish the Skullclan Hunter can work.
Dnjscott
11-12-06, 08:35 PM BOED is banned. Even though it's perfect. :(

I'll check out the SCH...
NatchFeral
11-12-06, 08:53 PM BOED is banned. Even though it's perfect. :(

Too bad!
HelloRaptor
11-12-06, 10:00 PM Build your favorite high crit-range TWFer (kukri!), manage to pick up 4 levels of Wild Mage, get Improved Critical, and find a caster with stupidly high DCs for his spells to create you a pair of Prismatic Burst weapons. Undead are immune to the crits, but not to being sent to an alternate plane or the like. And due to Student of Chaos, you get to check twice each time you successfully make a crit check, and pick which result you want. ;)

At least.. that's what I'll be doing in a similiar sounding game. -.-

Okay, not the most optimal idea, but certainly the funniest to play.
Sactheminions
11-13-06, 03:38 AM Of course, that also sets up the next adventure, where the people from the other plane you sent all the undead to come calling...

Barbarian/Frenzied Berserker has to work doesn't it? Good fort save, lots of hits, Supreme Cleave? Get yourself a Holy Greataxe? Doesn't sound like this is a campaign that will require literacy either...
ravenkith
11-13-06, 02:31 PM Sounds like a slashfest.

In a situation like that, longevity is thee key; you have to do what you do, and be able to do it all day long.

There is no class better at that than the Warlock.

Unless you take into account the reserve feats from complete mage.

Now I just got the book the other day, but it seems to me that the various reserve feats really add a heck of a lot of staying power to the average mage (as long as he has x spells memorized, or x spell slots open, he can do y). I may have just missed it in the text, but I remember seeing nothing about using a spell or spell slot to power the ability granted by the feat: just that you had to have the required things available.

So, in combination with that, consider

Sorceror 1-5/Mage of The Arcane Order 1-4/Fatespinner 1-4/Sorceror 6/Archmage 1

for your fifteen levels.

Given that you will get 6 feats, needing 2 to qualify for MOTAO and 3 more for Archmage, that leaves you with 1 (2 if you go human) to pick up one of the 'dance all day' feats from complete mage. I'd go with Acid, personally, but that's just 'cause I like the idea of watching undead melt.

Note: I can't remember if Fatespinner has feat requirements: my brain is telling me no, just skill & spell...

Trick yourself out with area of effect evocations (most undead tend to have sucky reflex), but make sure to pick up a couple of no-save dds for boss monsters like vamps and liches.

Oh, and disintegrate is your friend. :D

Of course, a cleric with chained reached cures could also be very very nasty.
Bishop Drazz
11-13-06, 02:59 PM Just to give a couple of other options than the warlock to keep you thinking:

--Dragonfire Adept. Combines two of the features that have already been brought forth; infinite ability to use your main attack and a focus on Reflex saves. You breath weapon will be very effective against undead, especially if the enemy will come in groups. Also look into the Dragonborn race from Races of the Dragon to add another breath weapon and the Draconomicon feats to get Entangling Breath. Use the Dragonborn breath to Entangle, then the DFA breath at will.

--Anything from the Magic of the Incarnum. All the abilities are useable throught the day. In addition, many of the binds grant some level of Fast Healing, and if there are that many enemies, you might need the self-heal function, and use it a lot.
Dnjscott
11-13-06, 06:25 PM Update: Looks like I'm stuck being the Cleric. The guy who usually does it wants a game off, our usual DM gets to play and had something very specific in mind, and that leaves me.

I guess an Eldritch Disciple 10 / Cleric 9 / Warlock 1 would only lose 2 Cleric caster levels and have 11 levels worth of Invocations...
Nessaj
11-14-06, 12:30 AM I wrote up a fun looking Level 15 Force Blaster Sorcerer on a whim...See what you think...I changed some of his spells a bit to fit better in an undead-themed hack n' slash game.

Sorcerer 6/Force Missile Mage 5/Argent Savant 4

(1) Quicken Spell
(1H) Combat Casting
(3) Heighten Spell
(6) Arcane Thesis: Magic Missile
(9) Rapid Metamagic
(12) Invisible Needle
(15) Practiced Spellcaster
(Flaw Feats) Maximize Spell, Energize Spell

Two flaws for two metamagic feats. I suggest Maximize Spell and Energize Spell to crank more goodness out of your magic missiles. Heighten Spell prevents Globe of Invulnerabilities from ruining your day.

He gets 7d4+14 MM damage per casting, and can energize (+50% damage vs. undead)/quicken a series once per round with a 4th level slot, followed by a quickened, maximized, energized missile for even more blaster goodness as a 6rd level spell. And since only three of his spells even have saves, you can keep your Cha as low as you like and only affect your bonus spells.

Spells:

1st Level: Magic Missile, Shield, Lesser Deflect, Protection from Evil, True Casting
2nd: Wings of Cover, Create Magic Tattoo, False Life, Command Undead,
Resist Energy
3rd: Heart of Water, Greater Mage Armor, Arcane Sight, Haste
4th: Wings of Flurry (1d6+1/CL Force damage, 30-ft radius reflex half), Evard's Black Tentacles, Greater Invisibility, Solid Fog
5th: Arcane Fusion (quicken/energize a MM, then throw out an energized set combined with a maximized/energized MM. That's 21d4+42 points of unavoidable love before the 50% doubling of whatever energy type you want besides force, thanks to Force Missile Mage's ability), Arcane Rejuvenation, Wall of Force
6th: Greater Dispel Magic, Disintegrate

CL 20th Magic Missiles that break SR, Shield Spells, and Brooches of shielding. Bring a calculator for the MM math.
ravenkith
11-14-06, 09:51 AM Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!

If you're gonna end up the cleric, the biggest thing for you is going to be truning. Dump the Warlock levels in favor of pumping up your turning capability!!!

Radiant servant of pelor is where it's at for an undead-heavy campaign...and if you've got to be the cleric anyways, you may as well be the best damn undead killing badass that ever walked the earth, right?

If you then go ahead and pick up some nightsticks from libris mortis (7500 gp for 4 extra turn attempts a day, ea.,) throw in divine metamagic: reach spell and divine metamagic: chain spell.

Invisibility to undead is always fun

death to undeath can be nice.

destruction is, as always, groovy.

Turning kicks undead ass.

But nothing says undead killing fun better than a reached, chained cure serious wounds spontaneously cast, hitting all the bad guys and all your allies simultanously...healing the friendly, hurting the undead.

throw in the max healing feat from CD, and you might have a winner: but keep in mind that a reached chained heal might prove more effective.

Can you say gibbed? I knew you could!

Seriously, if yoou want an undead killing machine, you can't go wrong with the radiant servant of pelor. Don't forget to take the sun & healing domains!

Do me a favor: name you guy Jack Crow...(the one from the book, not the crappy-by-comparison movie).
imneuromancer
11-15-06, 04:00 PM this one is easy.

Cleric of Pelor 5/Master of Radiance 5/RSoP 5

Master of radiance is from Libris Mortis, allows essentially three minutes per day of casting either Searing Light or Sunbeam (!!) once per round for a total loss of 1 caster level.

The RSoP could problably be replaced by other prestige classes.

Try to convince your GM to use the "destruction of undead" rules from page 87 of the Complete Divine.
Lemos
11-15-06, 04:15 PM id do a cleric with glory domain level 15

feats: disciple of the sun, extra turning , extra turning , extra turning etc..

=p
X-Codes
11-15-06, 04:39 PM I honestly don't like RSoP much for undead bashing, since Greater Turning attempts can be pretty well duplicated with the Disciple of the Sun feat. True it's fewer uses/day, but you also don't have your deity, domain choice, and a few other things tied up qualifying for the class.

Master of Radiance makes for an awe-inspiring undead blaster.
imneuromancer
11-16-06, 02:13 PM I honestly don't like RSoP much for undead bashing, since Greater Turning attempts can be pretty well duplicated with the Disciple of the Sun feat. True it's fewer uses/day, but you also don't have your deity, domain choice, and a few other things tied up qualifying for the class.

Master of Radiance makes for an awe-inspiring undead blaster.

If the Domains that Pelor had weren't so incredible against undead, I would agree with the sentiment. However, there are very few domains against undead than Healing, Sun, Glory, and Strength.
Timespike
11-16-06, 02:47 PM Cleric 4/Warlock 1/Elrtch Disciple 10 is pretty solid. 13 effective cleric casting levels for level 7 spells, 14 effective cleric turning levels, 11 effective warlock levels on invocations and eldritch blasts, healing blast, etc. And once you start getting those lesser invocations, watch out. Crawling eye & Disembodied hand = I hide behind cover and snipe things with my detached body parts that are almost entirely impossible to hit. Throw in some reserve feats and suddenly you're really in business. Eldritch disciple need only ever lose you 2 cleric levels for spellcasting and 1 for undead turning. I'm more than a little surpised it's not considered almost a given in any chaotic or evil cleric build. It is, by far, the least costly of all the dual-casting classes. If you're playing a CG cleric, there's a perfect lead-in to taking levels of just about any divine spellcasting prestige class you feel like at the end. Sacred Exorcist, in particular, fits nicely, as it advances everything about being a cleric and adds more to the pile, while still allowing a CG alignment.

Edit: Take the travel domain and you can get the Dimension Hop reserve feat to key off of your level 4 domain slot. Being able to teleport out of a mass of zombies after you're out of turning attempts might just save you some day.
Dnjscott
11-16-06, 07:39 PM I'll check out the Radiant Servant. I remember that was cool. Better incorporate at least some Servant of Pelor (as a bonus, the DM played one two campaigns ago, so he can't complain).

Is there any way to do that and still have Travel Domain? I hate missing D-Door and all that.

I do still like the ED, by the by. Very nice mechanically.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Dnjscott 11-12-06, 01:15 PM	Well, the title pretty much says it all, right? I guess this is some sort of monster mash game. Okie Dokie. When I hear 'arcade game' and 'hoardes of undead', I think Warlock. Unlimited uses and all. Luckily, Complete Mage has two Warlocks that are good against Undead--Enlightened Spirit and Eldritch Disciple. UNfortunately, the ED is a split caster with all that entails... I thought I might be better off iwth the simplicity of the Enlightened Spirit. So, Warlock 1-5 then Enlightened Spirit 6-15. ES gives me permanent Death Ward and extra damage against undead, which is nice. It seems like a sure-fire winner, but one thing worries me: What happens after level 15? Do you go back to Warlock? I mean, ES doesn't technically raise your Warlock casting level, instead giving bonus damage, so I guess then you're stuck building up Warlock caster 6-10? So... no Dark invocations ever? Or, any suggestion for a next step? Seems like you can't really advance your core casting after level 15, which seems like a pretty lousy idea, IMHO.
HaikenEdge 11-12-06, 01:33 PM	Depending on what you consider cheese and how your DM rules level loss, you might want to try the following: Start with Warlock 5/Enlightened Spirit 6. Then get level drained and lose all 5 of your warlock levels, so you're basically Enlightened Spirit 6 and don't lose access to any of your class abilities. From there, you'll have 10 levels to play with, possibly grabbing some levels in non-casting classes that focus on destroying undead. If all else fails and your DM permits, you could conceivably pick up Wild Talent and then grab 10 levels of Slayer for a +17 BAB. Just remember, though, that the Warlock's greatest strength is UMD. So, going with Warlock 5/Enlightened Spirit 10/Warlock +5 doesn't really lose anything aside from not being able to craft items. Then again, the only Dark Invocation I like is Word of Changing, so there is that.
swanyusd 11-12-06, 01:46 PM	What about soulknife10/IllumineSoul5. Thats a pretty steady undead combatting combination. I think its fair to say no DM ever would allow you to pick and choose which levels you lose, and then give you more to pick from as you only have a certain amount of xp to start with. Even emancipated spawn cheese wouldn't work with that concept. Otherwise, I think warlock 15 would be a better choice. The damage difference is pretty negligible, and you get better invocations to work with. Could you play a necromancer? You could control some of the undead horde and have them attack the other undead that are coming at you. With command undead feature (ala neutral/evil cleric) you could keep turning the undead back upon themselves. Just my 2cp -Swany
Dnjscott 11-12-06, 06:15 PM	Yeah, I dunno about that level loss. I guess the WL 10 / ES 10 could be not so bad, really. I'll look it over again... I'll check out the Dread Necro/Death Master/Death Delver Caucaus--not sure if the DM will go for evil-ish or not. Ah, Ilumine Soul. I knew there was a pretty cool looking undead fighter in a recent book. Couldn't think of what it was. Thanks!
Talkkno 11-12-06, 07:47 PM	Ilumine Soul is found in Complete Psionic.
NatchFeral 11-12-06, 08:00 PM	The spell Celestial Brilliance (BoED) is Cleric 4 and does 1d6/2d6 points of damage per round to all undead/evil outsiders within 60 feet, and lasts 1day/level. Use it and be safe, even at night.
ChristopherGroves 11-12-06, 08:22 PM	For non-caster-ish the Skullclan Hunter can work.
Dnjscott 11-12-06, 08:35 PM	BOED is banned. Even though it's perfect. :( I'll check out the SCH...
NatchFeral 11-12-06, 08:53 PM	BOED is banned. Even though it's perfect. :( Too bad!
HelloRaptor 11-12-06, 10:00 PM	Build your favorite high crit-range TWFer (kukri!), manage to pick up 4 levels of Wild Mage, get Improved Critical, and find a caster with stupidly high DCs for his spells to create you a pair of Prismatic Burst weapons. Undead are immune to the crits, but not to being sent to an alternate plane or the like. And due to Student of Chaos, you get to check twice each time you successfully make a crit check, and pick which result you want. ;) At least.. that's what I'll be doing in a similiar sounding game. -.- Okay, not the most optimal idea, but certainly the funniest to play.
Sactheminions 11-13-06, 03:38 AM	Of course, that also sets up the next adventure, where the people from the other plane you sent all the undead to come calling... Barbarian/Frenzied Berserker has to work doesn't it? Good fort save, lots of hits, Supreme Cleave? Get yourself a Holy Greataxe? Doesn't sound like this is a campaign that will require literacy either...
ravenkith 11-13-06, 02:31 PM	Sounds like a slashfest. In a situation like that, longevity is thee key; you have to do what you do, and be able to do it all day long. There is no class better at that than the Warlock. Unless you take into account the reserve feats from complete mage. Now I just got the book the other day, but it seems to me that the various reserve feats really add a heck of a lot of staying power to the average mage (as long as he has x spells memorized, or x spell slots open, he can do y). I may have just missed it in the text, but I remember seeing nothing about using a spell or spell slot to power the ability granted by the feat: just that you had to have the required things available. So, in combination with that, consider Sorceror 1-5/Mage of The Arcane Order 1-4/Fatespinner 1-4/Sorceror 6/Archmage 1 for your fifteen levels. Given that you will get 6 feats, needing 2 to qualify for MOTAO and 3 more for Archmage, that leaves you with 1 (2 if you go human) to pick up one of the 'dance all day' feats from complete mage. I'd go with Acid, personally, but that's just 'cause I like the idea of watching undead melt. Note: I can't remember if Fatespinner has feat requirements: my brain is telling me no, just skill & spell... Trick yourself out with area of effect evocations (most undead tend to have sucky reflex), but make sure to pick up a couple of no-save dds for boss monsters like vamps and liches. Oh, and disintegrate is your friend. :D Of course, a cleric with chained reached cures could also be very very nasty.
Bishop Drazz 11-13-06, 02:59 PM	Just to give a couple of other options than the warlock to keep you thinking: --Dragonfire Adept. Combines two of the features that have already been brought forth; infinite ability to use your main attack and a focus on Reflex saves. You breath weapon will be very effective against undead, especially if the enemy will come in groups. Also look into the Dragonborn race from Races of the Dragon to add another breath weapon and the Draconomicon feats to get Entangling Breath. Use the Dragonborn breath to Entangle, then the DFA breath at will. --Anything from the Magic of the Incarnum. All the abilities are useable throught the day. In addition, many of the binds grant some level of Fast Healing, and if there are that many enemies, you might need the self-heal function, and use it a lot.
Dnjscott 11-13-06, 06:25 PM	Update: Looks like I'm stuck being the Cleric. The guy who usually does it wants a game off, our usual DM gets to play and had something very specific in mind, and that leaves me. I guess an Eldritch Disciple 10 / Cleric 9 / Warlock 1 would only lose 2 Cleric caster levels and have 11 levels worth of Invocations...
Nessaj 11-14-06, 12:30 AM	I wrote up a fun looking Level 15 Force Blaster Sorcerer on a whim...See what you think...I changed some of his spells a bit to fit better in an undead-themed hack n' slash game. Sorcerer 6/Force Missile Mage 5/Argent Savant 4 (1) Quicken Spell (1H) Combat Casting (3) Heighten Spell (6) Arcane Thesis: Magic Missile (9) Rapid Metamagic (12) Invisible Needle (15) Practiced Spellcaster (Flaw Feats) Maximize Spell, Energize Spell Two flaws for two metamagic feats. I suggest Maximize Spell and Energize Spell to crank more goodness out of your magic missiles. Heighten Spell prevents Globe of Invulnerabilities from ruining your day. He gets 7d4+14 MM damage per casting, and can energize (+50% damage vs. undead)/quicken a series once per round with a 4th level slot, followed by a quickened, maximized, energized missile for even more blaster goodness as a 6rd level spell. And since only three of his spells even have saves, you can keep your Cha as low as you like and only affect your bonus spells. Spells: 1st Level: Magic Missile, Shield, Lesser Deflect, Protection from Evil, True Casting 2nd: Wings of Cover, Create Magic Tattoo, False Life, Command Undead, Resist Energy 3rd: Heart of Water, Greater Mage Armor, Arcane Sight, Haste 4th: Wings of Flurry (1d6+1/CL Force damage, 30-ft radius reflex half), Evard's Black Tentacles, Greater Invisibility, Solid Fog 5th: Arcane Fusion (quicken/energize a MM, then throw out an energized set combined with a maximized/energized MM. That's 21d4+42 points of unavoidable love before the 50% doubling of whatever energy type you want besides force, thanks to Force Missile Mage's ability), Arcane Rejuvenation, Wall of Force 6th: Greater Dispel Magic, Disintegrate CL 20th Magic Missiles that break SR, Shield Spells, and Brooches of shielding. Bring a calculator for the MM math.
ravenkith 11-14-06, 09:51 AM	Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo! If you're gonna end up the cleric, the biggest thing for you is going to be truning. Dump the Warlock levels in favor of pumping up your turning capability!!! Radiant servant of pelor is where it's at for an undead-heavy campaign...and if you've got to be the cleric anyways, you may as well be the best damn undead killing badass that ever walked the earth, right? If you then go ahead and pick up some nightsticks from libris mortis (7500 gp for 4 extra turn attempts a day, ea.,) throw in divine metamagic: reach spell and divine metamagic: chain spell. Invisibility to undead is always fun death to undeath can be nice. destruction is, as always, groovy. Turning kicks undead ass. But nothing says undead killing fun better than a reached, chained cure serious wounds spontaneously cast, hitting all the bad guys and all your allies simultanously...healing the friendly, hurting the undead. throw in the max healing feat from CD, and you might have a winner: but keep in mind that a reached chained heal might prove more effective. Can you say gibbed? I knew you could! Seriously, if yoou want an undead killing machine, you can't go wrong with the radiant servant of pelor. Don't forget to take the sun & healing domains! Do me a favor: name you guy Jack Crow...(the one from the book, not the crappy-by-comparison movie).
imneuromancer 11-15-06, 04:00 PM	this one is easy. Cleric of Pelor 5/Master of Radiance 5/RSoP 5 Master of radiance is from Libris Mortis, allows essentially three minutes per day of casting either Searing Light or Sunbeam (!!) once per round for a total loss of 1 caster level. The RSoP could problably be replaced by other prestige classes. Try to convince your GM to use the "destruction of undead" rules from page 87 of the Complete Divine.
Lemos 11-15-06, 04:15 PM	id do a cleric with glory domain level 15 feats: disciple of the sun, extra turning , extra turning , extra turning etc.. =p
X-Codes 11-15-06, 04:39 PM	I honestly don't like RSoP much for undead bashing, since Greater Turning attempts can be pretty well duplicated with the Disciple of the Sun feat. True it's fewer uses/day, but you also don't have your deity, domain choice, and a few other things tied up qualifying for the class. Master of Radiance makes for an awe-inspiring undead blaster.
imneuromancer 11-16-06, 02:13 PM	I honestly don't like RSoP much for undead bashing, since Greater Turning attempts can be pretty well duplicated with the Disciple of the Sun feat. True it's fewer uses/day, but you also don't have your deity, domain choice, and a few other things tied up qualifying for the class. Master of Radiance makes for an awe-inspiring undead blaster. If the Domains that Pelor had weren't so incredible against undead, I would agree with the sentiment. However, there are very few domains against undead than Healing, Sun, Glory, and Strength.
Timespike 11-16-06, 02:47 PM	Cleric 4/Warlock 1/Elrtch Disciple 10 is pretty solid. 13 effective cleric casting levels for level 7 spells, 14 effective cleric turning levels, 11 effective warlock levels on invocations and eldritch blasts, healing blast, etc. And once you start getting those lesser invocations, watch out. Crawling eye & Disembodied hand = I hide behind cover and snipe things with my detached body parts that are almost entirely impossible to hit. Throw in some reserve feats and suddenly you're really in business. Eldritch disciple need only ever lose you 2 cleric levels for spellcasting and 1 for undead turning. I'm more than a little surpised it's not considered almost a given in any chaotic or evil cleric build. It is, by far, the least costly of all the dual-casting classes. If you're playing a CG cleric, there's a perfect lead-in to taking levels of just about any divine spellcasting prestige class you feel like at the end. Sacred Exorcist, in particular, fits nicely, as it advances everything about being a cleric and adds more to the pile, while still allowing a CG alignment. Edit: Take the travel domain and you can get the Dimension Hop reserve feat to key off of your level 4 domain slot. Being able to teleport out of a mass of zombies after you're out of turning attempts might just save you some day.
Dnjscott 11-16-06, 07:39 PM	I'll check out the Radiant Servant. I remember that was cool. Better incorporate at least some Servant of Pelor (as a bonus, the DM played one two campaigns ago, so he can't complain). Is there any way to do that and still have Travel Domain? I hate missing D-Door and all that. I do still like the ED, by the by. Very nice mechanically.