Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Belldandy 05-16-06, 07:55 AM	So is it true, that at 15th level you can happily have full access to 3 wishes a day, at no cost, all because you give up on the gods? I'm talking "whatever to get into" and Ur Priest 10. Ability to steal a spell like ability. Get a genie/efreet in an iron flask, or summon them daily... Every day, 3 wishes a day. Is there a technical problem with this or is it sound? As I can't see any problems with it msyelf and thought you munchkins could help pick it apart if there is! *note: where I am from, munchkin is a term of respect in the creation of powerful characters - using the rules (so not an insult as the rest of the world seems to beleive!)*
runestar 05-16-06, 08:36 AM	By the RAW, you are correct. Watch out for lightning bolts of dm intervention though... ;)
Brol_The_Mighty 05-16-06, 08:45 AM	good point about the DM lightning bolt. The DM I game with, nerfs all of our wishes no matter. Unless you word it EXACTLY in game, he finds ways to screw with it, and half of us not being very good with words, we always get screwed with when we get one. Now I just pass on the wish.
Belldandy 05-16-06, 03:02 PM	gah. If my DM hadn't allowed it, I'd never have played it (as he'd be pants without it) Still. He did. :D I'm not overdoing it, I think as I've been reading to much and it's no fun overdoing things. But allows me to have a near infinite lazy character. Equipment? Well I can magic up 75k worth of items a day as needed. Infact. I might well use that... Q - HOW are there so many magic items about? A - ME! When I go to sleep, I'll use any unused wishes to create items and hide them around the realms! :D I am glad a very simple, but very effective build works. Also love the +5 inherent stats to myself and my cohorts! :D
Belldandy 05-16-06, 03:07 PM	good point about the DM lightning bolt. The DM I game with, nerfs all of our wishes no matter. Unless you word it EXACTLY in game, he finds ways to screw with it, and half of us not being very good with words, we always get screwed with when we get one. Now I just pass on the wish. PS that is a 2nd ed RULE I believe. No such need in 3rd ed. But it's always fun to see a 3rd ed player try it with a 1st/2nd ed GM!!! HEHEHEHEHHE
nihility 05-16-06, 03:13 PM	PS that is a 2nd ed RULE I believe. No such need in 3rd ed. Actually... Wish ...You may try to use a wish to produce greater effects than these, but doing so is dangerous. (The wish may pervert your intent into a literal but undesirable fulfillment or only a partial fulfillment.)
Hesparex 05-16-06, 03:36 PM	Evil pays in DnD apparantly. That certainly explains some the abuses that are easily done by becoming an assassin " Gosh mister how do I become powerful?" " Easy son just become evil." " Hmm evil huh" " Don't worry these days these days you are evil as long as you can justify at each incident why you act pretty much like your paladin friend over there. As long as he justifies never actually checking to see that you are now evil you will be just fine" reasons why alignment now means little or nothing in most campaigns...............
Subedei 05-16-06, 03:48 PM	And what would be the point of evil didn't have the lure of power? A universe where good is stronger is just boring.
Oogar 05-16-06, 04:32 PM	As I said in a post about Mindbenders, they can do it as well. Level 15 (10 in the PrC) is Eternal Thrall, and efreeti don't have a great will save (+9 I think). You do not have to be evil, or be against the gods or religion. However, you do have to take 10 levels of a non-uber PrC and find one of these wish granters to turn into your Thrall. They only have 10 hit dice, so hopefully it should not be that much trouble.
Caelic 05-16-06, 04:41 PM	Of course, the DM could simply respond by noting that the Efreeti have had the ability to grant unlimited wishes for milennia--carried to the logical conclusion, they have conquered the Prime Material and most other dimensions, and thus the opportunity for other races to achieve this level of power doesn't exist anymore. :) Bell--unless you can cast five wishes at a time, you can't get to that +5 inherent bonus.
Hesparex 05-16-06, 04:49 PM	Nothing wrong with it except that evil seems to have lost it's meaning. To use a book example... Tarrant from the Friedman novels was a compelling anti hero being the greatest hero of the church seduced by evil because of fear of death. His fear was so great he murdered his wife and all of his children save one to seal the pact. Later on in the novels the setting version of evil learns of his moralizing doing good deeds in the name of evil and decided he had wavered and took vengeance upon him. Elric is another example of the tragic anti hero (Stormbringer had a knack for killing his close friends and loved ones) however the sword provided him the power needed to achieve his goals. Slapping the alignment of X Evil on a character sheet without any of the other trappings of evil though renders it a meaningless mechanic.
Hesparex 05-16-06, 06:04 PM	Of course, the DM could simply respond by noting that the Efreeti have had the ability to grant unlimited wishes for milennia--carried to the logical conclusion, they have conquered the Prime Material and most other dimensions, and thus the opportunity for other races to achieve this level of power doesn't exist anymore. :) Bell--unless you can cast five wishes at a time, you can't get to that +5 inherent bonus. Actually Efreet/Djinn cant grant wishes to the "genie" general race. Which is the loophole for Ur-Priest. Most wish granting mobs usually have it where they can only grant wishes to other people (thus providing the limitation to the Ur Priest) The mindbender with eternal thrall of course bypasses that limitation as well. However the limitation they have is being reliant on the creature's view that is granting the wish even when they are trying to be as helpful as possible ( the outlook of life experiences of immortal creatures might seem warped to a character as the character lacks the perspective the creature has from say eons of existance) when using a wish for something other than the nice "simple" things listed in the PHB. For humorous adjudication of wishes I suggest The Simpsons episode with the Monkey Paw .... for more dangerous adjudication examples I suggest the X-Files episode with the djinni. For diabolical adjudication of wishes The Wishmaster probably fits the bill.
Belldandy 05-17-06, 08:33 AM	Actually Efreet/Djinn cant grant wishes to the "genie" general race. Which is the loophole for Ur-Priest. Most wish granting mobs usually have it where they can only grant wishes to other people (thus providing the limitation to the Ur Priest) The mindbender with eternal thrall of course bypasses that limitation as well. However the limitation they have is being reliant on the creature's view that is granting the wish even when they are trying to be as helpful as possible ( the outlook of life experiences of immortal creatures might seem warped to a character as the character lacks the perspective the creature has from say eons of existance) when using a wish for something other than the nice "simple" things listed in the PHB. For humorous adjudication of wishes I suggest The Simpsons episode with the Monkey Paw .... for more dangerous adjudication examples I suggest the X-Files episode with the djinni. For diabolical adjudication of wishes The Wishmaster probably fits the bill. ROFL I read that last bit asthe worst case scenario for evil wishes had something to to with "The Bill" (being a UK police series) certainly confused me to start! The powers can be taken every 24hrs, so casting 3 wishes at the end of the time, to then regain them, and cast the final two... theer would be a way to do it. Hmmm rings of spell storing come to mind! :D hehehehehe Still I've found Wish and Miracle VERY rarely used (normally only by the good in times of dire need to save innocents) due no doubt to the XP cost. So to frivalise such a power would be demaning and wrong.
Brol_The_Mighty 05-17-06, 09:20 AM	In our campaign wishes are very rare, and very precious....but because, as I said above, our DM screws with them, most of us would rather sell a ring of 3 wishes, rather than use them. It's kinda depressing frankly. I mean, wish is supposed to mean something, and be a boon to the player....but its become more of a burden then anything.
Belldandy 05-17-06, 01:27 PM	In our campaign wishes are very rare, and very precious....but because, as I said above, our DM screws with them, most of us would rather sell a ring of 3 wishes, rather than use them. It's kinda depressing frankly. I mean, wish is supposed to mean something, and be a boon to the player....but its become more of a burden then anything. I've never really encountered a wish. Other than for inherent stats and books. Miracles were used a bit, but thats due to the ability to use them WITHOUT xp. Wish, I'm actually not sure I've ever seen one cast?! They would be good for a back up plan, (the ring) but thats about it
Hesparex 05-17-06, 01:39 PM	Well it is a shame your DM doesn't use the mechanics provided in the official set. A character making a wish in the safe zone (which btw has been around since the earliest days of 1st ed.... granted it took 10 wishes to raise an attribute 1 point) shouldnt be penalized unless using a creature as the medium for the wish that enjoys twisting the wishes made by mortals. Even then it shouldnt always be immediately obvious that the wish was tainted (say you wish for some sort of magical sword and it is "gathered" from the trove of a chromatic dragon who is angry over the theft and vows to have revenge on the human villagers nearby and makes it known there will be no peace for the lands until the sword is returned... and then provides a description of the sword in question)
b3jsd73jfx 05-17-06, 03:09 PM	reasons why alignment now means little or nothing in most campaigns............... That's not true, i've played in quite a few campaigns recently and in most of them I play a NE to CE Rogue whose only purpose for being with the party is because he knows that they are strong and they can help him attain his goals as long as he doesn't screw them over. In one campaign, we have a Disciple of insert crazy name here (It's from BoED). And the first time he used his "Detect Evil" ability at will, I was so evil that it knocked him unconscious. It's really funny when him and I are trying to do a mission together...
Hesparex 05-17-06, 03:23 PM	In a way you just proved my point far better than I could have ever hoped to do so myself. If your character is so "evil" then an Exalted character probably wouldnt be associating in any form greater then trying to destroy such overwhelming evil. " This thing is as evil as a demon of the Abyss!!!" " It's okay he's with us" That is unless your character is doing nothing but good deeds... thus lessening that taint and then how exactly would you be so evil again?
tiejaz 05-17-06, 10:34 PM	pfft. simply use Shapechange, you gain all Special Abilities and Special Attacks Glabrezu 12 HD 1/month Efreet 10 HD 3/day Pit Fiend 18 HD 1/year Solar 22 HD 1/day (remember, you can change form once per turn as a free action) There. once per year you get 6 wishes once per month you get 5 wishes and once per day you get 4 wishes (4 x 365 +12 +1) = 1473 wishes per year (4 x 30 + 1) = 121 wishes per month (4 x 1) = 4 wishes per day Casting one 9th level spell per day. why would anyone EVER cast wish, when they can cast shapechange? Plus, Druids get it! I love Druids.