Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Sci 05-31-06, 12:42 PM	Ok, perhaps it's a fondness for my memories of Final Fantasy 6/3, but I have been thinking of a build for a Setzer-type character. Someone obsessed with gambling, luck, and the like. This isn't for a game right now, but I'd love to play it if any I'm in die (or if it's cooler than some of them, hehe), and come on, it should be fun to think of, right? I'm thinking either a human or half-human of any type sorcerer or wizard 5, wildmage 10, and fatespinner 5, with all those feats from Races of Destiny that allow you to re-roll, and survive death, and whatnot, but I'm sure better than that can be done. I know, for example, swashbuckler has a reroll ability too, and there's a feat in the complete adventurer that lets you re-roll your initiative. This should be a character that's pretty decent from 1-20, (although a few slump levels are understandable) with emphasis on fate, gambling, luck, and so on. Naturally, max ranks in profession (gambler) every level. The idea is that he may not be the best out there, but he sure is the luckiest! A few other perspectives? Sleight of hand seems to make sense... I wonder, is there any way to fit in Coin Toss besides Drunken Master? Anyway, I leave it to you guys, let's go with a base 28-point buy, cause it seems the most balanced, anything WotC. As little Level Adjustment as you can possbily squeeze in.
cultjake 05-31-06, 12:46 PM	I'm thinking you want a Bard/Marshal/Fatespinner combo. It's all charisma & dex. sleight of hand bluff (of course) intimidate
Harliquinn 05-31-06, 12:57 PM	If you include any type of caster, you have to include the Wild Mage (At least the 1st level for the 1d6 random Caster Level bit)
Sci 05-31-06, 01:13 PM	I'm thinking you want a Bard/Marshal/Fatespinner combo. It's all charisma & dex. sleight of hand bluff (of course) intimidate I don't see how marshal has anything to do with it, though...maybe I'm missing something?
ChrisAsmadi 05-31-06, 01:14 PM	I believe there's a Cheat spell in various books. That would fit a gambler.
Sci 05-31-06, 02:05 PM	Str 8 Dex 14 Con 12 Int 14 Wis 10 Cha 16 Rogue3/sorcerer2/Wildmage3/fatespinner5/mindbender1/arcanetrickster6 Human: Feats 1 Magical Aptitude, Heroic Destiny 3 StillSpell 6 Protected Destiny 9 Fearless Destiny 12 Improved Initiative 15 Mindsight 18 DangerSense stat improvements - all charisma He's got a decent spell set, caster level 17, the ability to pretty much reroll dang-near anything, and adjust the results of most of them. I'm pretty sure this can be made better, though...after all he is one level shy of 9-level spells...
Book 05-31-06, 02:06 PM	You want the following skills maxed out: Bluff Sense Motive Sleight of Hand Intimidate (yes, blowing the action to do this gives a good payoff - unlike in combat) Besides access to the Prestidigitation spell, You want access to a decent array of the following spell types: Divination Enchantment Illusion You also want to be able to use the metamgic combo Still Spell/Silent Spell on all your spells. Imagine such a combo on spells like Detect Thoughts, Suggestion, etc. If you get caught cheating, you want access to teleportation-effect spells like Dimension Door. You also want access to magics that cloak your magic nature, aura, and gear (Nystul's Magic Aura perhaps?). Mindbender's Telepathy is also a must have. For talking to your lookouts, friends at the table, or when you are implanting surreptitious suggestions against your opponents. Hope that helps! (Back to work I go..)
Bling Bling Van Hooch 05-31-06, 02:29 PM	Lvl 1 spell from the draconomicon called Cheat allows you to reroll when determining the success of a game of chance.
Count_Rugen 05-31-06, 03:45 PM	If you're playing Eberron, there are a host of "rerolling" type features, including action points and feats that increase your number of action points, the size of the action die rolled, etc... I may post a more complete template when I get home from work.
creepy drifter 05-31-06, 03:50 PM	I recommend the suggestion above about getting silent and stilled spells that read minds, divinates, etc. That way you don't have to worry about re-rolls and stuff like that. Illusions are good too at changing what your opponents see, improving your "poker face" facade, etc.
Sci 05-31-06, 05:20 PM	Ok, here's another idea I came up with, with a lot of help from Prominence: Human 01. Bard1 - Magical Aptitude, Heroic Destiny 02. Bard2 03. Bard3 - Silent Spell 04. Bard4 05. Bard5 06. Bard5/WildMage1 - Protected Destiny 07. Bard5/Wildmage2 08. Bard5/Wildmage3 09. Bard5/Wildmage3/Hexblade1 - Fearless Destiny 10. Bard5/Wildmage3/Hexblade2 11. Bard5/Wildmage3/Hexblade2/SublimeChord1 12. Bard5/Wildmage3/Hexblade2/SublimeChord2 - Improved Initiative 13. Bard5/Wildmage3/Hexblade2/SublimeChord2/Fatespinner1 14. Bard5/Wildmage3/Hexblade2/SublimeChord2/Fatespinner2 15. Bard5/Wildmage3/Hexblade2/SublimeChord2/Fatespinner3 - Danger Sense 16. Bard5/Wildmage3/Hexblade2/SublimeChord2/Fatespinner4 17. Bard5/Wildmage3/Hexblade2/SublimeChord2/Fatespinner5 18. Bard5/Wildmage3/Hexblade2/SublimeChord2/Fatespinner5/Mindbender1 - Mindsight 19. Bard5/Wildmage4/Hexblade2/SublimeChord2/Fatespinner5/Mindbender1 20. Bard5/Wildmage5Hexblade2/SublimeChord2/Fatespinner5/Mindbender1 Now, he's going to end up with 9th level spells, a wizard's BAB (unfortunately of +10, a pathetic +3 base fort save, a decent +9 base will, and an awesome +17 base will save. He'll be able to wear light armor and use any melee weapon thanks to Hexblade, and he has tons of chances to re-roll any screwups and boost/lower the results, which more than makes up for that god-awful fort save, IMO. Another option is to pull out the Mindbender 1, and switch those last two levels of Wildmage out, and throw in three levels of Spellsword...you can then take Practiced Spellcaster to make up for the drop in caster levels from fatespinner and spellsword, as well as the drop from wildmage. Still 9th level spells, but not as much...oh, and you can hold a shield (whoopdie do). I don't know, I think reading minds, telepathy and the like are much more useful to a gambler, though...
Rokku 05-31-06, 05:22 PM	For a tricky rogue/spellcaster type, it's hard to beat the PHB2's Beguiler.
helicopter 05-31-06, 05:29 PM	For a tricky rogue/spellcaster type, it's hard to beat the PHB2's Beguiler.I agree. A tweaked Beguiler build trumps the Bard/Sublime build mentioned above ... in regards to the direction of your Gambler theme. You need way more skills. You need way more emphasis on a flexible application of the Silent/Still combo for your spells. The Beguiler does this. And he has strong defense and escape options (valuable to a gambler). And he can easily integrate the Mindbender/Mindsight combo.
jstorrie 05-31-06, 05:40 PM	Sci, you need one more Sublime Chord caster level to hit level 9 spells, as Wild Mage is progressing Bard. Sacred Exorcist or Divine Oracle would be good dips.
Kythras 05-31-06, 05:54 PM	Ok, so some peopole might bite my head off for using an outdated prestige class... I don't care... Using Auspician from Champions of Faith Cleric1 - Iron Will, (Great Fortitude if human), Luck Domain Cleric1/Beguiler1 Cleric1/Beguiler2 - Lightning Reflexes Cleric1/Beguiler3 Cleric1/Beguiler4 Cleric1/Beguiler5 - Dodge Cleric1/Beguiler5/Auspician1 Cleric1/Beguiler5/Auspician2 Cleric1/Beguiler5/Auspician3 - Magical Aptitude Cleric1/Beguiler5/Auspician4 Cleric1/Beguiler5/Auspician5 Cleric1/Beguiler5/Auspician6 - (Metamagic Feat) Cleric1/Beguiler5/Auspician7 Cleric1/Beguiler5/Auspician8 Cleric1/Beguiler5/Auspician9 - (Feat) Cleric1/Beguiler5/Auspician10 Cleric1/Beguiler5/Auspician10/WildMage1 Cleric1/Beguiler5/Auspician10/WildMage1/Fatespinner1(Feat) Cleric1/Beguiler5/Auspician10/WildMage1/Fatespinner2 Cleric1/Beguiler5/Auspician10/WildMage1/Fatespinner3 Caster level 6th as Beguiler 1st as Cleric with 13 levels that can go anywhere between them... A lot of Fate/Lucky/Wild Magic action going on in there and using fractional BaB... +14 (I don't actually have PHB2, so I'm guessing about the Beguiler)
Iry 05-31-06, 06:04 PM	If you're looking primarily for Rerolls, you can just rip the Scoundrel right out of the Starwars D20 books. Should be almost completely compatible save a few skill changes.
00_Whupass 05-31-06, 06:21 PM	Well this isn't an optimal choice but I once played a character who went by the moniker "The Card Trick Magician". He was a Rogue/Wizard/Geomancer who had scribed his spell runes on the back of playing cards. Maxxed out slight of hand allowed him to cut to the card he wanted and perform other cardsharp manuvers, not to mention cheat at poker. He was a blast.
nbhs275 05-31-06, 06:55 PM	LUCKSTEALER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Come on! who doesn't love a drunken gambling halfling? So now im going to draw out a build that does just that! well, actually, i don't have my books infront of me so this is just a guestimate of a build Cleric 5/luckstealer10/monk 3/ drunken master 2 or some such nonsense Basically you just steal your enemies luck while playing some cards, drink up, and start brawling. Im sure there is a way to get better casting along with this build, but im liking the flavor of this one right here. For even more of a rounded character add in the master thrower/drunken coin build and you got a fun luck gun
Sci 05-31-06, 07:37 PM	Man, all of these are great ideas. I think I like the cleric/beguiler option, because the luck domain ability is obviously nice. Luckstealer simply makes sense though, too, but it's not worth losing the Destiny feats over it. This guy has to be at least half-human to get those.
Book 05-31-06, 08:21 PM	Just a word of caution ... I play a lot of Forgotten Realms campaigns. And I've been in quite a number of gambling houses in the major cities of Toril. Quite often, really reknowned and "big time" gambling houses have some serious bouncers at the door. But more importantly, those bouncers are supported by spellcasters who constantly monitor and vett-out gamblers who come in bearing magical auras either from spells or equipment. Detect Magic is always running - and you have to be prepared for that. For gambling establishments are not stupid. They know that magically augmented gamblers are most likely using magic to cheat or stack the favor in their odds. That's why you need a backup in the event you can't use magic or your magic gets dispelled/taken away. Meaning ... you need some strong skills and non-magic augmentations to accomplish your goal of being an expert gambler. Spells will work in some gambling houses. But pretty much you have to assume that most serious gambling establishments will not allow you to be magically augmented.
Timlagor 05-31-06, 08:41 PM	I'm glad someone noticed the Luck Domain but don't forget the Destiny Domain to ruin your opponents' luck.
nbhs275 05-31-06, 09:56 PM	so im hearing that non-magic is a plus, but i think your going to need atleast a little to help you scratch by. So maybe a spellthief would work. Get a few levels of him(4-6 to quilify for an easy PRC). Get into any PRC that grants levels of casting and other abilities(this will help keep you chugging while on your way to 3rd level spells) then enter luck stealer. Your going to be based solely on Dex and Cha, sono MAD, but your not gunna want to neglect con. I know there is PrC that only need 1st level spells to enter, im just having trouble thinking of them.
ninjarabbit 05-31-06, 11:12 PM	hexblade19/cleric1 or hexblade15/cleric1/fatespinner4 with at least the luck domain The nice thing about the hexblade curse is that it's supernatural and not magical so it will get by a lot of the magical protections and even work in an anti-magic zone. Another option is to throw in 3 levels of blackguard for aura of dispair (among other things) for another -2 to saves, combine that with the dark companion option hexblades get in PHB 2 and you can give someone -4 to their saves without a saving throw.
Sci 12-28-06, 01:06 AM	The nice thing about the hexblade curse is that it's supernatural and not magical so it will get by a lot of the magical protections and even work in an anti-magic zone. I'm pretty sure supernatural counts as magic in regard to anti-magic zones and stuff...I think. I haven't looked at this thread in a loooong time. I wanted to rehash it up to ask if anyone thinks stuff from Complete Mage and the other new books might help. I never got to play this guy as the game fell through, and now he's my backup for the game I'm in.
hockeyman 12-28-06, 02:05 AM	what about the Hellbred race from Fiendish Codex #2, the CHA one gains telepathy at 15th lvl, which would free up the mindbender lvl for something better IMO
Dark_beebles 12-28-06, 03:09 AM	Oh hell no you guys, i have the best guy in the world for this my bro and me wanted to make this guy forever, But i finally got the chance during 1 game. Chaos Gnome No Devotion, Take the luck and Destiny domain, Go cleric/Divine Prankster Take Divine Spell power (random chance to increase or decrease your caster level). In the end i made the BBGE roll up to 4 times for everything, saving throws, skill checks, ability checks, attack rolls, and i got to roll 2 times and take the best of each roll. Imo the fatespinner isnt lucky or anything he makes it happen so there is no "chance" in that imo..when you can "see" the future there is no random chance in that. My sig spell was the Cheat spell from the Book of Vile darkness btw, DM let me "research it"...So pretty much every inn, bar, tarvern, casino w/e i made enemies cuz i never lost :D Telling you, this guy has power if he needs it, 20th lvl cleric casting is nothing to cough at, but i always played a wussy running coward guy so people tended to underestimate me. Most of all...no one fears a guy who always seems to get "lucky" i mean dodging a mountain, because he slips on a banana peal just aint "scary" or getting "swallowed" by a dragon but you just happened to find a gap in his teeth so you are un-touched aint "scary" lol. Powerful, Fun, and a boat load of laughs (like the titanic..cept you dont sink). This was by far my fave character to play ever..i always ended up laughing so hard because you can pull anything off in the most obsurd fanshion.
Kamikaze Chicken 12-28-06, 11:08 AM	if you dont mind being a halfling taking luck stealer is a very fine idea, steal other peoples luck and use the stolen luck to improve your own. its not as random as fate spinner, but maybe both coul dbe slippe dinto the build? you neve rknow... KAMIKAZE! :chicken:
The_Mad_Linguist 12-28-06, 06:04 PM	Max your ranks in profession(gambler) as well.
PhaedrusXY 12-28-06, 06:22 PM	I like Dark Beebles' idea, but I'd add in some levels of Fatespinner. :D (It can advance divine casting, right?)
Dark_beebles 12-29-06, 01:09 AM	I like Dark Beebles' idea, but I'd add in some levels of Fatespinner. :D (It can advance divine casting, right?) Hmm, no you need to caster 4th lvl arcane spells..and my DM let me go with the build but its against the rules, Since you need to worship Garl Glitterstone.
Bombadil 12-29-06, 04:49 AM	I think a basic arcane build would be a halfling sorcerer 6 / luckstealer 10 / fatespinner 4. In the fatespinners description there is an "adaptation" part about stealing luck that could work well with the luckstealers curse... there is the glimmerskin halfling from dragon magic that receives touch of luck (+2 to one save to himself or ally 1/day). gold or green dragon lineage feats from the same book give bonuses or penalties to saves, with some luck flavour... And... I think having luck and cheating are VERY DIFFERENT THINGS...