Post/Author/DateTime	Post
suckerpunch 06-16-05, 12:35 AM	he's at home, washing his tights... on a more serious note....i saw the new Batman movie today....all i can say is wow....they finally put the anger in this character....i'm still digesting it but i feel it may be better than the 1989 and up versions...(i mean who can beat Adam West???) it was darker, it was angrier, it was uber cool... Just wondering, for those creative optimizers out there who have also seen this flic...what are your thoughts on a Batman Build....(well as close to the new batman movie build would be neet). I was thinking something of a ninja/monk mix or perhaps something different to account for the stealth, hiding, hand to hand combat and the sort...perhaps a little barb for a use of rage??? for stats i am thinking high in the int and dex/con....and he looked like he managed a few amazing feats of str in the movie as well.... why not....how bout throw in something to account for his alter ego: bruce wayne....pretty suave... i think this could get a little cool.
Lusden Veharo 06-16-05, 02:56 AM	Track and Gather Information have to be in there, plus some decent armor proficiency.
zivpeled 06-16-05, 03:07 AM	if this is not a vigilante then what is
Verdaloth 06-16-05, 08:25 AM	For flavor yes a vigilante, but why dos he get mettle and spell casting? Im definetly thinking Monk and maybe theif acrobat. and he needs load and loads of money.
Tweedledope 06-16-05, 09:21 AM	Spell Casting is essential because how are you honestly going to build a Batmobile in D&D? You can't. But, you can cast Ghost Steed and just hop on thin air to scare the bejeebers out of anyone. Vigilante has great flavor for...well, the vigilante that Batman is for one simple reason. Speak with the Dead. Bruce CONSTANTLY visits Thomas and Martha Wayne's grave and asks for guidance. Of course, in the comics he doesn't actually get an answer (side from dream sequences) but, it would be great for flavor in D&D. I would definitely say that he has levels of monk. I would, honestly, say that as Uber as he is, he has to be Gestalt. 20 levels of Monk on one side with a good PrC mix and fighter levels on the other side. I would even go as far as to say it might be necessary to include Paladin levels. Obviously regular paladin probably wouldn't work but, the Paladin of Freedom from the Unearthed Arcana would probably fit the bill. Another reason that spellcasting is essential is to explain how he does some of the crazy stuff he does. For instance, slowfall (which he could get from monk too) is a great addition for the fact that the bastard can jump from the tallest building in Gotham and land like the Spiderman. Dimmension Door would also explain how he just seems to appear/dissappear from Gordon's office or just seems to appear behind his enemies before he beats them to a pulp. Batman is the true pimp but, with nice spellcasting, levels in Thief-Acrobat just wouldn't foot the bill for him. He must be Gestalt. The real question is, how do we optimize Alfred? Robin is easy, he's a level 20 Sissy. Honestly, he wears green undies with no pants...we have a saying for that where I come from. -=Tweedledope=-
Runeblood7 06-16-05, 09:44 AM	Artificer... "Where does he get all those wonderful toys!?" or something allong those lines. Definately Urban Tracking, maybe even an Urban Ranger, Monk He'd have to have some kind of Ascetic Hunter feat. TA definately works. Vigalante... I mean , come on...it's almost like it had his name written all over it. Sorry about my spelling today. :D Alfred, I believe, was an ex-interpol? I could be wrong. He would have to be some kind of Rogue/ Fighter with a homebrewed Supreme Butler PrC and Skill Focus in Profession: Butler
Kurama Youko 06-16-05, 03:12 PM	not to jump off subject I had a catwoman type build. Something like Fighter2/Rogue4/Lasher10/Thief Acrobat4
Tweedledope 06-16-05, 03:24 PM	I have a Catwoman build too! It can be found here! (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=430498)
Khazra Reborn 06-16-05, 03:32 PM	Minimum levels of monk & then belt/tatooes, after all he does augument his abilitieis with items. After that paladin of freedom sounds good. With one of the wierd multi-classing feats (if one exists for monk/paladins).
rilem 06-16-05, 03:47 PM	Batman actually needs to be a spellcaster in D&D, because craft (alchemy) requires it. - Rogue levels are also required (or something with trapfinding, anyway). - The Ninja's Ghost Step ability (or swift invisibility, or Flee the Scene) seem needed. Hide in Plain sight, too - Finally, Watch Detective (Song & Silence) is great — superior disarm and an I'm-smarter-than-everybody! ability.
Old Man with a Stick 06-16-05, 04:38 PM	Belt of Many Pockets from T&B anyone? Come on the utility Belt!
LiquidDarkness 06-18-05, 02:05 AM	In my opinion Batman started with 18 in all stats at level 1: He is the closest thing to being "super human" without any real powers. Urban Ranger/Thief-Acrobat sounds good to me, or possibly Fighter/Rogue (he has alot of skill points/high skill ranks, and alot of feats. I have not seen the new movie yet, but from the previews I can see where you people are going with monk ;)
bluelighter0 06-18-05, 08:26 AM	Just for the record, and to throw the thread off topic, the Griffins beat Adam West when they got super-powers. But after he got lymphoma trying to get powers to fight back, they appologized and promised to use their powers to help him recover. Heh, Family Guy rocks. That aside, I remember seeing a Batman thread on the board not too long ago, but I don't remember anything from it. People disputed the Vigilante PrC because of the spellcasting, but yeah, it's kinda hard to do some of his trademark tricks without it in the D&D world. I don't really have anything helpful to add, I just like to hear myself talk.
jcintro2 06-18-05, 10:28 AM	Good morning My friend is actually going to be starting an Eberron campaign that will be taking place predominantly in the bustling metropolis of Sharn, and I was also thinking that the Vigilante prestige class would embody this concept rather. My path however may be a little different from everyone else's. The first six levels of my progression would be in learing how to fight and survive. My thoughts were Swashbuckler 3/Rogue 3, you can fight pretty decently and have the ability to sneak around very well, and Batman certainly can do both! then after that, i was going to take levels in the Master Inquisitive prestige class out of the Eberron handbook (it's on page 82-83) basically it gives you contacts (or in Batman;s case snitches ie the word on the street) and it also gives him discern lies as a spell like ability once per day (almost like Daredevil). These first 11 levels present the journey of Bruce Wayne (or Don Diego De La Vega aka Zorro) from bumbling buffoon to a hero who is worth anyone's notice. then at 12th and for the duration of the progression, VIGILANTE! really nice abilities especially for a city based campaign (smite the guilty totally rocks in the appropriate setting, and also gets speak with dead as a spell like ability and Quick Hide and Quick Search, two things that both Batman and Zorro can do-"a mysterious figure who can appear and dissappear at will.")
Tweedledope 06-18-05, 12:32 PM	On this same topic but slightly kiltered...does anyone else feel that the Vigilante PrC might be a bit weak? The 3/4 BAB really stabs it in the back and the abilities are only so-so. I was wondering if it would be too overpowered if it was bumped up to a Full BAB. Tweedledope
Kurama Youko 06-18-05, 12:35 PM	Maybe, But you could just use the Ghostwalker PrC from Sword and Fist, now that was a Batman like Full BAB PrC. combine that with some Fighter/Ninja levels and your set.
Khazra Reborn 06-18-05, 01:01 PM	oh yeah, great idea! The anonomity even fits because the bad guys who know the secret identiy always have an advantage.... The ninja class seems better then rogue to me for batman. One last note, aswell as all 18s to start he needs a belt of magnificence for +6 to all stats! Ive always loved batman, so much cooler then anyother character....
Kurama Youko 06-18-05, 02:20 PM	here is one particular build for a Batman-like character. Size & Type: Medium Humanoid (Human) Hit Dice: 5d8 plus 2d10 plus 2d8 plus 10d10 Iniatitive: +6 Speed: 40ft Armor Class: 19 (Dex +4, Wis +4, Monk +1,) During Painful Reckoning 29.. Base Attack Bonus/Grapple: +18/+26 Attack: Unarmed Strike +22 (1d8+4) or During PR Unarmed Strike +32 (1d8+14) Full Attack: Flurry of Blows +21/+21/+16/+11/+6 or During PR +31/+31/+26/+21/+16 Space / Reach: 5ft/5ft Special Attack: Unarmed Strike, Flurry of Blows, Ki Strike (Magic), 1st Favored Enemy (Monsterous Humanoids), Painful Reckoning +10, Special Qualities: Wild Empathy, Combat Style (Archery), Evasion, Still Mind, Slow Fall 20ft, Purity of Body, Resolute Aura, Anonymity, Feign Death, Superior Iron Will, Etherealness 3/day, Shadow Walk. Saves: Fort: +21 Ref: +14 Will: +16 Abilities: Str: 18 Dex: 18 Con: 18 Int: 18 Wis: 18 Cha: 18 Skills: Bluff +23, Balance +8, Climb +10, Diplomacy +23, Escape Artist +8, Gather Information +23, Hide +13, Intimidate +11, Jump +10, Listen +16, Move Silent +16, Sense Motive +16, Spot +16, Swim +8, Survival +8, Use Rope +5 Feats: (B)Iron Will, 1st-Able Learner, (B)Improved Grapple, (B)Combat Reflexes, 3rd-Toughness, 6th-Daunting Presence, (B)Power Attack, (B)Close Quarter Fighting, (B)Track, 9th-Flying Kick, (B)Rapid Shot, (B)Endurance, 12th-Quick Draw, 15th-Hear the Unseen, 18th-Quick Reconnoiter Environment: Urban Organization: Solo or Duo Challenge Rating: 20 (hah more like 25, It's BATMAN!) Treasure: Superior! Alignment: Chaotic Good (after leaving monatisic monk order) Advancement: By Character Class Level Adjustment: +0 Equipment: You choose Another Option is to switch out the levels of Monk for Levels of Ninja Complete Adventurer (though i was to pleased with the class its still a good addition to a batman build.) Also if playin in the faerun I would switch out Able Learner for Education and try putting some ranks in a few Knowledge skills like Local, and a few minor points (1 or 2 in the big ones. Arcana, Religon, Nature, History.)
Kurama Youko 06-18-05, 02:22 PM	I should note i didnt add any of the ability score modifiers to the skills.. just total ranks in them.
Kurama Youko 06-18-05, 02:29 PM	If you go with the Ninja version I'd suggest Lawful Neutral as a alignment.
McBAMF 06-18-05, 03:13 PM	To speak more on the alignment idea. I believe Batman can only be Chaotic Good. Honestly he doesn't really obey the law and he is not neutral.
Kurama Youko 06-18-05, 03:25 PM	I have to disagree, Lawful Neutral "Judge": A Lawful neutral character acts as law, tradition, or a personal code directs her. (Batman has a code ethics, like not taking a life, even a low life's life.) Order and organization are paramount to her. (Batman lives in America, he wouldnt want America to up and lose its laws and rules and over all goverment. He may act out of it but he defends it by putting away the criminal element that would break it.) She may believe in personal order and live by a code or standard, or she may believe in order for all and favor a strong, organized goverment. (Read what I said before.) Lawful Neutral is the best alignment you can be because it means you are reliable and honorable without being a zealot. everything outside of the () is quoted from the players handbook.
Kurama Youko 06-18-05, 03:33 PM	then again its just my opinion. He can be whatever the player or dm feels he should be. I just feel like it should be Lawful Neutral. He may work outside of it, but he definitely respects it and upholds it.
Prak, the Mad 06-19-05, 01:07 AM	For flavor yes a vigilante, but why dos he get mettle and spell casting? Im definetly thinking Monk and maybe theif acrobat. and he needs load and loads of money. mettle: yes(well, yes for a more experienced batman, no for the movie's batman) spellcasting: no. Spell Casting is essential because how are you honestly going to build a Batmobile in D&D? You can't. But, you can cast Ghost Steed and just hop on thin air to scare the bejeebers out of anyone. horse shaped golem(you have to think of the DnD equivalent. put lots of bat influenced elements into the design of the thing) I would definitely say that he has levels of monk. I would, honestly, say that as Uber as he is, he has to be Gestalt. 20 levels of Monk on one side with a good PrC mix and fighter levels on the other side. I would even go as far as to say it might be necessary to include Paladin levels. Obviously regular paladin probably wouldn't work but, the Paladin of Freedom from the Unearthed Arcana would probably fit the bill. gestalt, maybe, but monk gives him half a dozen things he shouldn't have, Ki strike, Purity of Body, Wholeness of Body, Diamond Body, Abundant Step, and Empty Body. Not to mention that I would say the majority of damage he does in his body is a combination of high strength and low level(on the part of the thugs). Paladin, maybe, I do think he should have detect evil and smite evil, but he shouldn't have lay on hands, or remove disease or spells. and why wouldn't the PHB pal. work? Batman's LG, IMO, not CG. you could say he's C in that he's a vigilante, but that's a non-issue, especially in DnD, with a setting where there are no anti-vigilante laws. Another reason that spellcasting is essential is to explain how he does some of the crazy stuff he does. For instance, slowfall (which he could get from monk too) is a great addition for the fact that the bastard can jump from the tallest building in Gotham and land like the Spiderman. Dimmension Door would also explain how he just seems to appear/dissappear from Gordon's office or just seems to appear behind his enemies before he beats them to a pulp. spellcasting isn't neccessary. the jumping thing, tumble, this is one reason I think Batman should have levels of monk though, for slowfall, but tumble can do it to(i think, i don't want to page through books right now) and unless the writers are lying to us and batman is nightcrawlers step-brother, DOESN'T TELEPORT! HE HAS NO POWERS! he's good at sneaking, give him high ranks in hide and move silently.(-edit-checked, it's an epic use of the tumble skill, though 30 isn't to high for an optimized character, and that would get him slow fall 20', but also, he uses his cape to slow his fall, not buildings. just get a DM to allow it) Belt of Many Pockets from T&B anyone? Come on the utility Belt! yeah, there's very little mysticising I'd do with DnD batman, but this is one thing. then again its just my opinion. He can be whatever the player or dm feels he should be. I just feel like it should be Lawful Neutral. He may work outside of it, but he definitely respects it and upholds it. LG, the only thing he does outside the law is vigilantism, and in DnD, that's not outside the law, I don't think mideval societies had laws against vigilantes, since dueling was legal, and vengence was a tradition. He also fights evil. he will stop a robber or mugger, but if it was a choice between stopping a robber and evil, he would choose to stop evil, trusting that the law can set the robbery right,(though if he's in a particularly foul mood, he might stop the mugger to avenge his parents) and I would suggest levels in Justicar. it fits him fairly well,(batcuffs, ^_^) and no odd abilities that a normal person couldn't have through training.(I hope you guys know what I mean by that, I made it as clear as possible) -edit- over all, the point of Batman is that all the things he does are theoretically possible. he has training and gear, you could be a real life batman, you'd end in jail and there wouldn't be any supervillians(though joker, harlequin, scarecrow, riddler, a less literal interpretation of Freeze, bane and a few others are just as possible as Batman is,)the point of batman is that everyone in it could exist, (except maybe clayface, or a very literal interpretation of freeze or ivy) it was more about an average person fighting insane criminals, and neither side had powers. DnD batman doesn't need magic. Just have an arrangement with your DM that anything you can explain without magic or sci-fi is allowable, and read up, and figure out.
Kurama Youko 06-19-05, 05:10 AM	I said this once and I think I'll say it again, your batman can be whatever it is you want in terms of alignment and now come to think of it class as well because until you the player are satisfied with your batman-like character no one elses ideas are gonna justify it.