Angel-like PC [Archive] - Wizards Community

Angel-like PC [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
gnuamra
11-16-03, 07:28 AM we gonna start a new campaign with a good party around level 8 can you help me min/max a angel-like fighting spellcaster?

i have looked at aasimar and later take outsider wings, this is the style im looking for.

i could take half-celestial but isnt that overkill with the +4 LA.

i have also looked at this race, its like a good fey'ri. but i dont know if the dm allows me to take it since its not in a book.
http://www.seankreynolds.com/rpgfiles/monsters/eladreetemplateclass.html

what do you think? some good, celestial like race and then build it with some fighter and wizard classes and then further into some cool prc.

weapon will be some kind of sword. and maybe a mithril shirt as armor.
Thyrion the Red
11-16-03, 07:42 AM Aasimar is a nice race and his background says thats this race have a celestial somewhere on its family tree. He gets +2wis/cha and its rly nice if u going for paladin. He also get some others bonus like some resistence and so.

Thats my suggestion if you looking for something with high LA.
catharz
11-16-03, 03:20 PM The latest for Half-celestial is in the Book of exalted deeds. It's LA varies based on base creature HD, from +2 to +7.
For a base creature with 1-2 base HD (any PC race) the LA is +2.

As for SKR's Template classes, they are probably balanced. The fact that he was one of the primary game designers, he also has written all of the official template classes. If you can get Anger of angels, it has a Half-celestial template class almost identical to the Half-fiend one online. I can probably write it up if you like, it is under the OGL :)
gnuamra
11-16-03, 03:26 PM Ok, i gonna check out that half-celestial in the BoED.
here is what i have done so far..

aasimar
lawful good
sourcerer 5/palladin 2/spellsword 2/eldritch knight x

STR 18 +4
DEX 16 +3
CON 14 +2
INT 10 0
WIS 10 0
CHA 18 +4 (+5 with sc prodigy)

1 sorcerer 1
2 sorcerer 2
3 sorcerer 3
4 sorcerer 4
5 palladin 1
6 palladin 2 <- CHA to all saves
8 spellsword 1
9 spellsword 2 <- no more arcane spell failure (with mithral shirt) and wings
10 sorcerer 5 <- level 3 spells
11 eldritch knight 1 <- base attack 6

...will continue with eldritch knight i think

base attack 6/1 at level 11 :/

feats
level 1: spellcasting prodigy (Forgotten Realms Campaign Settings)
level 3: celestial bloodline (Races of Faerun)
level 6: ?
level 9: outsider wings (Races of Faerun)

what weapon? maybe longsword or greatsword? but that feels so common :/
we are playing kinda lowmagic, any good spell that can make this character better in melee?

good looking spellcasting palladin with mithral shirt and feather wings, sounds cool to me :)
gnuamra
11-16-03, 03:38 PM Originally posted by catharz
The latest for Half-celestial is in the Book of exalted deeds. It's LA varies based on base creature HD, from +2 to +7.
For a base creature with 1-2 base HD (any PC race) the LA is +2.

i dont really understand that :)
we gonna start a group with level 7 characters.
and if i take half-elf/half-celestial it would only be +2 LA... like a drow? hmm

then i can take 5 class levels too? this seems too powerfull or have i missunderstood it?
Funny Slaughter
11-16-03, 06:09 PM in my opinion the BoED-ruling goes from totally overpowered for a normal PC to totally useless for a higher-HD monster.

for an ecl of +2 you get really really increadible things, imo its way too low.

if you manage to survive the first levels a half celestial paladin is a really good and competing build with the full ECL of +4, i see this every week in my gaming group.

the lower the pointbuy the better the template gets.

if you decide to go half-celestial paladin i would stay for 5 levels and go for a PrC then. templar is good, and many in the BoED are even better. divine champion is great to finish off the last 5 levels.

gs
Funny
TerrickTerran
11-16-03, 06:32 PM That's probably because you wouldn't get all the various abilities, just the ones you get at 1-2 HD.
catharz
11-16-03, 06:45 PM Actually, I don't think it ever says that.
The LA is based on "Base creatuure HD", while the abilities are based on total HD (Just look at the Half-fiend template class).
Funny Slaughter
11-16-03, 06:45 PM That's probably because you wouldn't get all the various abilities, just the ones you get at 1-2 HD.

and that are nearly all.
thats some crap of trying to balance.

compare half-celestial ecl+2 to other options beside saint, i dont think you will find many that top it.

gs
Funny
Crusher Nate
11-17-03, 07:32 PM Another option is the Favored Soul basic class from the Miniatures Handbook. It doesn't grant any stat adjustments, but it does give some outsider powers. It gives you Energy Resistance (All types, I think), Wings (similar to what Half-Celestials get), and Damage Reduction. Most of this comes at high levels, though.
Not as strong as the Aasimar Paladin/Sorcerer, but simpler, with no level adjustment and (perhaps) more likely to be allowed by your average DM.

Edit: Oh, and at level 20 you'd actually be a 20th level spellcaster.
Boondoggle
11-18-03, 03:20 AM Angels are divine casters, so I don't think that's quite the correct description of your character. However, an Aasimar Sorcerer 6 qualifies for Eldrich Knight. Outsiders (which an Aasimar is) are proficient with all simple & martial weapons (not to mention the fun with polymorph).

The Spell Sword reqirements are a hefty price to pay for the ability to wear a mithril chain shirt so I suggest you reconsider.
nikademus
11-18-03, 03:33 AM Hello Gnuamra,

First you could take Paladin 1 on your first level instead od sorcerer,
this way you gain a few more hitpoints.

Do you really need the wings ?
You can fly as an assimar sorcerer with alter self (changing in outsider form, mephit
for example) or it is for flair reasons.

Do you really need the spellsword ?

Probably

Paladin 2 / Sorcerer 6 / Eldritch Knight 10 / PrC with spell Progression would be better.

In my opinion archery is the better way to fight with Eldritch Knights because of your
low hit points.

Archery build
Str 14 / Int 10 / Wis 10 / Con 16 / Dex 18 / Cha 18

Feats
01) Point Blank shot
03) Precise shot
06) Rapid shot
09) extend spell
12) empower spell

You fight with your bow and later with empowered scorching rays.

Nikademus

PS
Neonsamurai posted a similar build some time ago , which can be found on his excellent website :

http://minmax.neonsamurai.de/
Neonsamurai
11-18-03, 04:04 AM Originally posted by Boondoggle
Outsiders (which an Aasimar is) are proficient with all simple & martial weapons (not to mention the fun with polymorph). I don't think it is that way. In the race description of aasimar you can find
—Racial Feats: An aasimar gains feats according to its class levels. This implies that the "racial" proficiencies are oeverriden.
When we look at the outsider type description we can find this : Traits: An outsider possesses the following traits (unless otherwise noted in a creature’s entry).(emphasize mine).

However, aasimar is still a good choice for a sorc/eldritch knight imo, since you can do neato things with outsider polymorph.

See this build as an example: http://minmax.neonsamurai.de/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=50&mode=thread&order=0&thold=0
catharz
11-18-03, 04:31 AM Neonsamurai, as much as what you say makes sense (and I do agree that Aasimar are probably not intended to be proficient in all martial weapons any more than Half-celestials or humans), it is not noted otherwise in their description, as your quotes show.
Neonsamurai
11-18-03, 04:39 AM Since aasimar have a feat progression by character class i think it is otherwise noted. They have no feats of their own. Same applies to genasi and tieflings.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
gnuamra 11-16-03, 07:28 AM	we gonna start a new campaign with a good party around level 8 can you help me min/max a angel-like fighting spellcaster? i have looked at aasimar and later take outsider wings, this is the style im looking for. i could take half-celestial but isnt that overkill with the +4 LA. i have also looked at this race, its like a good fey'ri. but i dont know if the dm allows me to take it since its not in a book. http://www.seankreynolds.com/rpgfiles/monsters/eladreetemplateclass.html what do you think? some good, celestial like race and then build it with some fighter and wizard classes and then further into some cool prc. weapon will be some kind of sword. and maybe a mithril shirt as armor.
Thyrion the Red 11-16-03, 07:42 AM	Aasimar is a nice race and his background says thats this race have a celestial somewhere on its family tree. He gets +2wis/cha and its rly nice if u going for paladin. He also get some others bonus like some resistence and so. Thats my suggestion if you looking for something with high LA.
catharz 11-16-03, 03:20 PM	The latest for Half-celestial is in the Book of exalted deeds. It's LA varies based on base creature HD, from +2 to +7. For a base creature with 1-2 base HD (any PC race) the LA is +2. As for SKR's Template classes, they are probably balanced. The fact that he was one of the primary game designers, he also has written all of the official template classes. If you can get Anger of angels, it has a Half-celestial template class almost identical to the Half-fiend one online. I can probably write it up if you like, it is under the OGL :)
gnuamra 11-16-03, 03:26 PM	Ok, i gonna check out that half-celestial in the BoED. here is what i have done so far.. aasimar lawful good sourcerer 5/palladin 2/spellsword 2/eldritch knight x STR 18 +4 DEX 16 +3 CON 14 +2 INT 10 0 WIS 10 0 CHA 18 +4 (+5 with sc prodigy) 1 sorcerer 1 2 sorcerer 2 3 sorcerer 3 4 sorcerer 4 5 palladin 1 6 palladin 2 <- CHA to all saves 8 spellsword 1 9 spellsword 2 <- no more arcane spell failure (with mithral shirt) and wings 10 sorcerer 5 <- level 3 spells 11 eldritch knight 1 <- base attack 6 ...will continue with eldritch knight i think base attack 6/1 at level 11 :/ feats level 1: spellcasting prodigy (Forgotten Realms Campaign Settings) level 3: celestial bloodline (Races of Faerun) level 6: ? level 9: outsider wings (Races of Faerun) what weapon? maybe longsword or greatsword? but that feels so common :/ we are playing kinda lowmagic, any good spell that can make this character better in melee? good looking spellcasting palladin with mithral shirt and feather wings, sounds cool to me :)
gnuamra 11-16-03, 03:38 PM	Originally posted by catharz The latest for Half-celestial is in the Book of exalted deeds. It's LA varies based on base creature HD, from +2 to +7. For a base creature with 1-2 base HD (any PC race) the LA is +2. i dont really understand that :) we gonna start a group with level 7 characters. and if i take half-elf/half-celestial it would only be +2 LA... like a drow? hmm then i can take 5 class levels too? this seems too powerfull or have i missunderstood it?
Funny Slaughter 11-16-03, 06:09 PM	in my opinion the BoED-ruling goes from totally overpowered for a normal PC to totally useless for a higher-HD monster. for an ecl of +2 you get really really increadible things, imo its way too low. if you manage to survive the first levels a half celestial paladin is a really good and competing build with the full ECL of +4, i see this every week in my gaming group. the lower the pointbuy the better the template gets. if you decide to go half-celestial paladin i would stay for 5 levels and go for a PrC then. templar is good, and many in the BoED are even better. divine champion is great to finish off the last 5 levels. gs Funny
TerrickTerran 11-16-03, 06:32 PM	That's probably because you wouldn't get all the various abilities, just the ones you get at 1-2 HD.
catharz 11-16-03, 06:45 PM	Actually, I don't think it ever says that. The LA is based on "Base creatuure HD", while the abilities are based on total HD (Just look at the Half-fiend template class).
Funny Slaughter 11-16-03, 06:45 PM	That's probably because you wouldn't get all the various abilities, just the ones you get at 1-2 HD. and that are nearly all. thats some crap of trying to balance. compare half-celestial ecl+2 to other options beside saint, i dont think you will find many that top it. gs Funny
Crusher Nate 11-17-03, 07:32 PM	Another option is the Favored Soul basic class from the Miniatures Handbook. It doesn't grant any stat adjustments, but it does give some outsider powers. It gives you Energy Resistance (All types, I think), Wings (similar to what Half-Celestials get), and Damage Reduction. Most of this comes at high levels, though. Not as strong as the Aasimar Paladin/Sorcerer, but simpler, with no level adjustment and (perhaps) more likely to be allowed by your average DM. Edit: Oh, and at level 20 you'd actually be a 20th level spellcaster.
Boondoggle 11-18-03, 03:20 AM	Angels are divine casters, so I don't think that's quite the correct description of your character. However, an Aasimar Sorcerer 6 qualifies for Eldrich Knight. Outsiders (which an Aasimar is) are proficient with all simple & martial weapons (not to mention the fun with polymorph). The Spell Sword reqirements are a hefty price to pay for the ability to wear a mithril chain shirt so I suggest you reconsider.
nikademus 11-18-03, 03:33 AM	Hello Gnuamra, First you could take Paladin 1 on your first level instead od sorcerer, this way you gain a few more hitpoints. Do you really need the wings ? You can fly as an assimar sorcerer with alter self (changing in outsider form, mephit for example) or it is for flair reasons. Do you really need the spellsword ? Probably Paladin 2 / Sorcerer 6 / Eldritch Knight 10 / PrC with spell Progression would be better. In my opinion archery is the better way to fight with Eldritch Knights because of your low hit points. Archery build Str 14 / Int 10 / Wis 10 / Con 16 / Dex 18 / Cha 18 Feats 01) Point Blank shot 03) Precise shot 06) Rapid shot 09) extend spell 12) empower spell You fight with your bow and later with empowered scorching rays. Nikademus PS Neonsamurai posted a similar build some time ago , which can be found on his excellent website : http://minmax.neonsamurai.de/
Neonsamurai 11-18-03, 04:04 AM	Originally posted by Boondoggle Outsiders (which an Aasimar is) are proficient with all simple & martial weapons (not to mention the fun with polymorph). I don't think it is that way. In the race description of aasimar you can find —Racial Feats: An aasimar gains feats according to its class levels. This implies that the "racial" proficiencies are oeverriden. When we look at the outsider type description we can find this : Traits: An outsider possesses the following traits (unless otherwise noted in a creature’s entry).(emphasize mine). However, aasimar is still a good choice for a sorc/eldritch knight imo, since you can do neato things with outsider polymorph. See this build as an example: http://minmax.neonsamurai.de/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=50&mode=thread&order=0&thold=0
catharz 11-18-03, 04:31 AM	Neonsamurai, as much as what you say makes sense (and I do agree that Aasimar are probably not intended to be proficient in all martial weapons any more than Half-celestials or humans), it is not noted otherwise in their description, as your quotes show.
Neonsamurai 11-18-03, 04:39 AM	Since aasimar have a feat progression by character class i think it is otherwise noted. They have no feats of their own. Same applies to genasi and tieflings.