Animal Companion/Familiar Synergy? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Animal Companion/Familiar Synergy? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Lune
11-15-05, 03:40 PM Are there any feats / classes / anything that grants any synergy with Animal Companion and Familiar? Perhaps the combining of the abilities advancement into one creature? Something to that effect?

If so, what kind of build would this fit into well? Geomancer? Mystic Theurge?
PhoenixInferno
11-15-05, 03:56 PM Arcane Heirophant is the only one that I'm aware of (Druid + Wizard type PrC).
tsuyoshikentsu
11-15-05, 09:44 PM If so, what kind of build would this fit into well? Geomancer? Mystic Theurge?

If you're playing Gestalt and your DM lets you double-PrC, this fits very well into a spelcasting Supermount build.
Lune
11-16-05, 07:57 PM Hrm...I was trying to think of a way to work Geomancer up to at least 9 into this kind of build while still gaining Familiar Companion up to level 11th. I don't so much care about Scry on familiar or Improved Evasion (evasion is nice enough). I want mostly Druid casting here and to be survivable in melee.

The idea is this: to have a winged druid who rides on the back of a tiger familiar companion while casting spells.

No raptorians, please. Not allowed in the campaign this character would be played in. Is there any other way to get perminant wings that would fit this kind of build?

I figured 1 level of fochlucan lyrist wouldn't hurt this build either. I wouldn't mind taking 2 levels of Master Thrower as I can easily see using a spear (or ten) as a melee/throwing weapon along with a shield.

I'm also very interested in the spell from Complete Divine: Nature's Favor (think thats its name). It gives you skills and abilities of animals. Including blindsense if they have it. In fact, I would like to eventually make it perminant. Or persistant, but I don't think that is likely in this build.

UA mostly is disallowed. Allowable sources:
Core Books
Complete series
Races of series
Other WotC produced books like Dragonomicon, BoED, Frostburn, etc.
No setting specific books
No psionics
UA is not allowed but paragon racial progressions are
Monster races not allowed
Dark_and_Stormy
11-16-05, 09:17 PM Well, that there is a damned long list of 'wants'. I really think you are trying to spread yourself a little thin... that said, let's see what we can do.
You want Geomancer.... OK, this is tricky off the bat.
Requries 2nd level Arcane and Divine.
Assuming for a moment we put that at the end...

xxx10/Geomancer10.

Now we need druid to start with, at the very least.

Druid3/xxx7/Geomancer10

Now arcane spells are tricky. An Illumian can do it in one, depending on your interpretation of the rules. So can a chracter with Earth Spell. But I think your best bet is going to be the Suel Arcanamach. It happily requires a BAB of +6, and some skills, both class and cross-class for you.

Druid8/Suel2/Geomancer10

OK, Geomancer is taken care of, from a Pre-Reqs point of view. Ranks in Knowledge Nature you get class from Druid, Knowledge Arcana get in your time in Suel Arcanamach. (6 Ranks should be a simple matter).
Skills for Suel are harder - I think you'll need an Intelligence of 16 or higher to pull it off. Human won't help. (Keep reading).
Suel has one more requirement: 4 Martial (or exotic) Weapons. On the Druid List is the Scimitar and Shield, both are Martial Weapons. If only we had 2 more... Perhaps a race! A good old fashioned Elf nails it, with 4 Proficiencies for free. Longbow, Shortbow, Longsword, Rapier. Done.
We're now casting as a 18th Level Druid. The Suel is there as a token, no more.

OK, next: Druid8 is very nice: Large Wildshape, and 3/day at that, for 24 hrs in total, if you wish. Now would be a good time to note some basic feats.

Level1 Combat Casting. May as well take advantage of it while it means something, and it's a pre-req for Suel.
Level3 Iron Will. See above.
Level6 Natural Spell. As Always, and a must, for any druid wishing to use WS. Feel free to change it if you ignore Wildshape (or use an alternate build, below)
Level9 Spell Penetration or Extra Wildshape
Level12 Free Feat to Flavour
Level15 Free Feat to Flavour
Level18 Free Feat to Flavour

Good. What else have we got?
Hmmm. Mention of a Companion Familiar.
This is only available through the Arcane Heirphant class, which requires - you guessed it - 2nd level Arcane and Divine spells. This means a level in Arcane Heirophant is gonna cut down on your Geomancer levels (and Epic-readiness). Skills and Pre-reqs, though, you have already for Geomancer. You only said you wanted 9 levels in Geomancer though, so....

Druid8/Suel2/ArcaneHeirophant1/Geomancer9

OK, looking pretty good. Back to the list of 'stuff I want'.
Wings.
Oh.
Well, that depends on how patient you are. Remember that one of the stage 5 Geomancer drifts is wings, along with a nice Fly speed. If that's your vision, perhaps that can be an End-Goal, rather than an up-front thing. Remember that with Arcane Heirophant now in the mix, you'll only get the 1 Level 5 drift. But, there are wings.
<As an Aside, I recall a winged elf. Where/What was it? And Does it maintain the martial weapon Proficiencies we require?>

Next:
Foch. Lyricist. Master Thrower.
Hmmmm.
Not to put too fine a point on it, but those are going to kill you.
As it is, you've got 9th level spells, and decent caster level. At a minimum, 2 levels in Master Thrower will drop you from 9th level spells. So will any entry to get into F.Lyricist. I would suggest you think hard about whether those couple of (minor) features are worth, say, Shapechange. Or Storm of Vengeance. Or Elemental Swarm.
I know what my answer would be.
I'll leave those for now in the 'Too Hard' Basket, citing 9th level spells trump all, and let you make your own decision.

I think we've got everything else.

Alternate caster, without all the mucking about:

SpiritShaman8/Suel2/Geomancer10

Spirit Shaman still has the (fantastic) spell list of the druid, but more spells/day. If Wildshape is not your thing, this is the build for you. The CHA synergy with Suel can't hurt, and SS gets some very nice goodies indeed.
Got rid of Arcane Heirophant, as you no longer have Trackless Step (or a companion, for that matter). Epic Ready.
Lune
11-17-05, 03:28 AM I realize that I can get wings with Geomancer and that was the original plan. But having to wait so long for something that is mostly flavor sux. Also there are winged elves. They are called Raptorians. I can't play them.

I was thinking of something along the lines of maybe Bard 4/Druid 3/Master Thrower 2/Arcane Hierophant 1/Fochlucan Lyrist 1/Geomancer 9. It would use obtain familiar feat....but can't seem to fit it in there at a point where I could use it. Maybe would drop bard in favor of sorc, but then I can't wear metal armor. :/

Not too hot on the Archanamach to tell ya the truth. The excellerated spellcasting is nice for qualification purposes but the spell list sux. Damnit, I just wanna make the Geomancer work but the class just ends up sucking.

I think I'm going to have to drop it and get wings some other way. For everything else the Arcane Hierophant is perfect. Bard matches good too. Maybe something more like Bard 4/Druid 3/Master Thrower 2/Arcane Hierophant X(until I qualify for Fochlucan Lyrist)/Fochlucan Lyrist1/Arcane Hierophant X(unless I can find a better class by that point).

Now all I have to do is figure out how to get perminant wings. Hrm...gonna have to think on this one.
Blade2718
11-17-05, 03:50 AM Winged elves are called avariel.

Raptorans are a new race created specifically for (increased sales of) Races of the Wild.
CanineLord
11-17-05, 05:47 AM Isn't there a feat (Complete Adventurer?) that lets you burn a wildshape use to give yourself wings for an hour?

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Lune 11-15-05, 03:40 PM	Are there any feats / classes / anything that grants any synergy with Animal Companion and Familiar? Perhaps the combining of the abilities advancement into one creature? Something to that effect? If so, what kind of build would this fit into well? Geomancer? Mystic Theurge?
PhoenixInferno 11-15-05, 03:56 PM	Arcane Heirophant is the only one that I'm aware of (Druid + Wizard type PrC).
tsuyoshikentsu 11-15-05, 09:44 PM	If so, what kind of build would this fit into well? Geomancer? Mystic Theurge? If you're playing Gestalt and your DM lets you double-PrC, this fits very well into a spelcasting Supermount build.
Lune 11-16-05, 07:57 PM	Hrm...I was trying to think of a way to work Geomancer up to at least 9 into this kind of build while still gaining Familiar Companion up to level 11th. I don't so much care about Scry on familiar or Improved Evasion (evasion is nice enough). I want mostly Druid casting here and to be survivable in melee. The idea is this: to have a winged druid who rides on the back of a tiger familiar companion while casting spells. No raptorians, please. Not allowed in the campaign this character would be played in. Is there any other way to get perminant wings that would fit this kind of build? I figured 1 level of fochlucan lyrist wouldn't hurt this build either. I wouldn't mind taking 2 levels of Master Thrower as I can easily see using a spear (or ten) as a melee/throwing weapon along with a shield. I'm also very interested in the spell from Complete Divine: Nature's Favor (think thats its name). It gives you skills and abilities of animals. Including blindsense if they have it. In fact, I would like to eventually make it perminant. Or persistant, but I don't think that is likely in this build. UA mostly is disallowed. Allowable sources: Core Books Complete series Races of series Other WotC produced books like Dragonomicon, BoED, Frostburn, etc. No setting specific books No psionics UA is not allowed but paragon racial progressions are Monster races not allowed
Dark_and_Stormy 11-16-05, 09:17 PM	Well, that there is a damned long list of 'wants'. I really think you are trying to spread yourself a little thin... that said, let's see what we can do. You want Geomancer.... OK, this is tricky off the bat. Requries 2nd level Arcane and Divine. Assuming for a moment we put that at the end... xxx10/Geomancer10. Now we need druid to start with, at the very least. Druid3/xxx7/Geomancer10 Now arcane spells are tricky. An Illumian can do it in one, depending on your interpretation of the rules. So can a chracter with Earth Spell. But I think your best bet is going to be the Suel Arcanamach. It happily requires a BAB of +6, and some skills, both class and cross-class for you. Druid8/Suel2/Geomancer10 OK, Geomancer is taken care of, from a Pre-Reqs point of view. Ranks in Knowledge Nature you get class from Druid, Knowledge Arcana get in your time in Suel Arcanamach. (6 Ranks should be a simple matter). Skills for Suel are harder - I think you'll need an Intelligence of 16 or higher to pull it off. Human won't help. (Keep reading). Suel has one more requirement: 4 Martial (or exotic) Weapons. On the Druid List is the Scimitar and Shield, both are Martial Weapons. If only we had 2 more... Perhaps a race! A good old fashioned Elf nails it, with 4 Proficiencies for free. Longbow, Shortbow, Longsword, Rapier. Done. We're now casting as a 18th Level Druid. The Suel is there as a token, no more. OK, next: Druid8 is very nice: Large Wildshape, and 3/day at that, for 24 hrs in total, if you wish. Now would be a good time to note some basic feats. Level1 Combat Casting. May as well take advantage of it while it means something, and it's a pre-req for Suel. Level3 Iron Will. See above. Level6 Natural Spell. As Always, and a must, for any druid wishing to use WS. Feel free to change it if you ignore Wildshape (or use an alternate build, below) Level9 Spell Penetration or Extra Wildshape Level12 Free Feat to Flavour Level15 Free Feat to Flavour Level18 Free Feat to Flavour Good. What else have we got? Hmmm. Mention of a Companion Familiar. This is only available through the Arcane Heirphant class, which requires - you guessed it - 2nd level Arcane and Divine spells. This means a level in Arcane Heirophant is gonna cut down on your Geomancer levels (and Epic-readiness). Skills and Pre-reqs, though, you have already for Geomancer. You only said you wanted 9 levels in Geomancer though, so.... Druid8/Suel2/ArcaneHeirophant1/Geomancer9 OK, looking pretty good. Back to the list of 'stuff I want'. Wings. Oh. Well, that depends on how patient you are. Remember that one of the stage 5 Geomancer drifts is wings, along with a nice Fly speed. If that's your vision, perhaps that can be an End-Goal, rather than an up-front thing. Remember that with Arcane Heirophant now in the mix, you'll only get the 1 Level 5 drift. But, there are wings. <As an Aside, I recall a winged elf. Where/What was it? And Does it maintain the martial weapon Proficiencies we require?> Next: Foch. Lyricist. Master Thrower. Hmmmm. Not to put too fine a point on it, but those are going to kill you. As it is, you've got 9th level spells, and decent caster level. At a minimum, 2 levels in Master Thrower will drop you from 9th level spells. So will any entry to get into F.Lyricist. I would suggest you think hard about whether those couple of (minor) features are worth, say, Shapechange. Or Storm of Vengeance. Or Elemental Swarm. I know what my answer would be. I'll leave those for now in the 'Too Hard' Basket, citing 9th level spells trump all, and let you make your own decision. I think we've got everything else. Alternate caster, without all the mucking about: SpiritShaman8/Suel2/Geomancer10 Spirit Shaman still has the (fantastic) spell list of the druid, but more spells/day. If Wildshape is not your thing, this is the build for you. The CHA synergy with Suel can't hurt, and SS gets some very nice goodies indeed. Got rid of Arcane Heirophant, as you no longer have Trackless Step (or a companion, for that matter). Epic Ready.
Lune 11-17-05, 03:28 AM	I realize that I can get wings with Geomancer and that was the original plan. But having to wait so long for something that is mostly flavor sux. Also there are winged elves. They are called Raptorians. I can't play them. I was thinking of something along the lines of maybe Bard 4/Druid 3/Master Thrower 2/Arcane Hierophant 1/Fochlucan Lyrist 1/Geomancer 9. It would use obtain familiar feat....but can't seem to fit it in there at a point where I could use it. Maybe would drop bard in favor of sorc, but then I can't wear metal armor. :/ Not too hot on the Archanamach to tell ya the truth. The excellerated spellcasting is nice for qualification purposes but the spell list sux. Damnit, I just wanna make the Geomancer work but the class just ends up sucking. I think I'm going to have to drop it and get wings some other way. For everything else the Arcane Hierophant is perfect. Bard matches good too. Maybe something more like Bard 4/Druid 3/Master Thrower 2/Arcane Hierophant X(until I qualify for Fochlucan Lyrist)/Fochlucan Lyrist1/Arcane Hierophant X(unless I can find a better class by that point). Now all I have to do is figure out how to get perminant wings. Hrm...gonna have to think on this one.
Blade2718 11-17-05, 03:50 AM	Winged elves are called avariel. Raptorans are a new race created specifically for (increased sales of) Races of the Wild.
CanineLord 11-17-05, 05:47 AM	Isn't there a feat (Complete Adventurer?) that lets you burn a wildshape use to give yourself wings for an hour?