Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Khan the Destroyer 11-15-06, 08:08 PM	Here is my jab at an AoO build using some of the stuff out of Dragon Magic and Tome of Battle. Since I got the books a while after they came out, this has probably been done. But I didn't find anything on Google so... Anyways, this build isn't as simple as the beauty that is Jack B. Quick. Instead of a straight-classed build with lovely feat synergy, this guy hits up 3 base classes and 3 prestige classes, starving for feats. And while I normally prefer a build like Jack B. Quick over multi-dip builds, I like these end results. So, without anymore blabbing... Hara Kaito Master of the Dragon Fang Dojo Human Swordsage 1/Monk 3/Fighter 1/Dragon Descendant 10/Fighter +1/Invisible Blade 2/Tactical Soldier 2 1. Swordsage 1: Discipline Focus [Shadow Hand] (B), Dragontouched (Hum), Shadowblade (Lvl) 2. Monk 1: Improved Unarmed Strike (B), Stunning Fist (B) 3. Monk 2: Combat Reflexes (B), Weapon Finesse (Lvl) 4. Monk 3: 5. Fighter 1: Two-Weapon Fighting (B) 6. Dragon Descendant 1: Deft Opportunist (Lvl) 7. Dragon Descendant 2: 8. Dragon Descendant 3: 9. Dragon Descendant 4: Improved Two-Weapon Fighting (Lvl) 10. Dragon Descendant 5: 11. Dragon Descendant 6: 12. Dragon Descendant 7: Double Hit (Lvl) 13. Dragon Descendant 8: 14. Dragon Descendant 9: 15. Dragon Descendant 10: Vexing Flanker (Lvl) 16. Fighter 2: Adaptable Flanker (B) 17. Invisible Blade 1: 18. Invisible Blade 2: Cleave (Lvl) 19. Tactical Soldier 1: 20. Tactical Soldier 2: Sidestep (B) The build ends up with: HP: 4d10+14d8+2d6+ 20(con mod) [average 92+con] BAB: 15 Fort: 16 base Ref: 11 base Will: 12 base 1. I am using the Decisive Strike alternate class feature in PHB 2 for the 1st Monk level. Instead of Flurry of Blows, Kaito uses a full round action to make one strike at double damage. All other attacks before the end of his next turn also deal double damage. 2. The build was feat starved. I couldn't fit all of them in. So... I sort of went ahead with a suggestion from SonofaPreacherMan, the creator of the Invisible Blade prestige class. As such, I am his suggestion for the non-throwing IB, making the prerequisites Weapon Focus and Weapon Finesse. He uses daggers, because he's badass. The idea here is to use the monk's Decisive Strike to deal double damage on all AoO's. We generate AoO's by calling on our Ancient Ancestor and using our Double Hit feat. Everytime an opponent attacks, he provokes an attack of opportunity, which amounts to two attacks at double damage. This particular part of the equation happens at level 14. With Adaptable Flanker and the Flanker ability of the Tactical Soldier, you can Flank your enemy by yourself, without reach weapons (for instance, if you were standing directly in front of your enemy, choose the squares on either side of him as your flanking squares). This allows for Sneak Attack damage on every attack. Instead of dealing SA damage though, you can use the Bleeding Wound ability of the Invisible Blade. Against a character with 16+ BAB, the potential exists for 8 AoO's against that target, which amounts to 16 attacks at double damage with Sneak Attack added. With the Bleeding Wound, the enemy would instead bleed for 16 points of damage every round. (Depending on the situation, SA damage might be more practical.) Dexterity is the key stat here, fueling your number of AoO's, your attack modifier, your weapon damage (Shadowblade), and your AC as normal. I would consider Constitution the second most important ability, since you're trading blows to be effective. Assuming 25 point buy, I ended up going with: 10 Strength 16 Dexterity 12 Constitution 10 Intelligence 12 Wisdom 11 Charisma (needed for Dragontouched) By level 20, that dexterity can be boosted to 30. Meaning 11 AoO's per round. That should match most full attacks made by melee characters. His attack modifier should look like: 15 (BAB) 10 (Dex) 5 (Weapon) 3 (Rampaging Ancestor) 4 (Flanking) 1 (Discipline Focus [Shadow Hand]) 4 (Deft Opportunist) -2 Two-Weapon Fighting -2 Decisive Strike +34 to-hit, +38 on AoO's Damage should look like: 1d4 (Dagger) 10 (Dexterity) 3 (Rampaging Ancestor) 5 (Weapon) Minimum 19 damage x2 (Decisive Strike) 38 x2 (Double Hit) 76 So for each melee attack against Kaito, he can respond with 76 points of damage (and most likely, SA damage or wounding damage). One of my concerns is his HP though. Either he needs a con boost (most likely through items) or his equipment needs to go to AC. Any thoughts, critiques, suggestions? (I apologize if this seems haphazard. I still don't have access to my own computer, so a lot of this is from memory since I don't have my books with me as I type.) . . . . . . . . . . Mechanically, I chose daggers because of the Shadowblade feat, and the Invisible Blade class. Thematically, the daggers represent the fangs of the dragon that Hara Kaito envisions himself to be. With his deadly fangs, he cuts down his enemies. Staying true to both theme and mechanics, a cheesy weapon for Kaito to use would be the Many-Fang Dagger out of Serpent Kingdom. Slap two of those puppies in his hands and suddenly his damage leaps to 95 minimum on each attack, meaning he answers his enemy's strike with 190 damage. But mostly, I would choose those daggers for thematic reasons ;).
darkone7141981 11-24-06, 01:34 AM	In most cases I would really encourage someone to use the ToB classes, but in this case the fact that you chose to take 1 level in Swordsage and 3 in Monk instead of 4 in Monk lost you one point of BAB. I know your character plans on AoO damage, but having that last BAB nets you a guaranteed additional attack each full attack action. This is a guaranteed attack instead of a possible attack. If that is important to you, I would adjust the build. If not, well don't. (*You could achieve a similar result by taking a level in either Crusader or Warblade instead. Warblade would also help deal with your low hit points issue...) I am not a fan of Cleave or Sidestep. Instead of those, you could consider a high-critical-range weapon like the Kukri (which would still fit thematically) or the Scimitar (which is often used for Dragon God's favored weapons in place of the Claw for humanoids) and take Improved Critical and Telling Blow, allowing more frequent Sneak Attacks (and/or Bleeding Wounds). The sooner you work these in, the better I feel they become.
Part-Human2 11-24-06, 03:39 AM	Daggers are not special monk weapons and Decisive Strike is limited to special monk weapons.
Khan the Destroyer 11-25-06, 12:22 PM	Daggers are not special monk weapons and Decisive Strike is limited to special monk weapons. ... You're right. I thought weapon proficiency for the monk equated to special monk weapon. But it doesn't. Since Shadowhand weapons aren't compatible with the Invisible Blade weapons (outside of the dagger), I need to swap one out. I am leaning towards losing Swordsage/Shadowblade, since the the invisible blade combo has the benefit of always flanking, which equals a higher attack roll modifier. But the dex to damage is more reliable, and gets mutliplied. In most cases I would really encourage someone to use the ToB classes, but in this case the fact that you chose to take 1 level in Swordsage and 3 in Monk instead of 4 in Monk lost you one point of BAB. I know your character plans on AoO damage, but having that last BAB nets you a guaranteed additional attack each full attack action. This is a guaranteed attack instead of a possible attack. If that is important to you, I would adjust the build. If not, well don't. In this instance, the extra attack wasn't really an issue. For the most part, the monk should be relying on Decisive Strike, which sacrifices a full attack anyways. I know it's a guaranteed attack, but it would be at +1 BAB, meaning it is hardly a guaranteed hit. (*You could achieve a similar result by taking a level in either Crusader or Warblade instead. Warblade would also help deal with your low hit points issue...) Actually, it had to be Swordsage. In order to grab the Shadowblade feat, you need a Shadowhand stance. Only Swordsage has access to the Shadowhand discipline. Also, I was using Discipline Focus as Weapon Focus for Invisible Blade. I am not a fan of Cleave or Sidestep. Cleave is needed for Tactical Soldier, and Tactical Soldier is what allows the character to Flank anyone he strikes (in conjunction with Adaptable Flanker). This means a higher to-hit modifier and reliable sneak attack damage. Sidestep is actually a bonus feat from Tactical Soldier 2. I think I might just lose the whole flanking/SA damage part of the build. I may have been attempting too much. That frees up 3 feats and 4 levels. I don't know what I would put in though. I would like to maintain full BAB in those last 4 levels, just to keep my to-hit up. If I use the Sai as a weapon, I could go into Exotic Weapon Master. That would maintain the full BAB, and lessen the two-weapon fighting penalty by 1. But that seems a little bland :). Thanks for the help so far, any more suggestions?
wolfie-kun 11-25-06, 01:02 PM	... You're right. I thought weapon proficiency for the monk equated to special monk weapon. But it doesn't. Since Shadowhand weapons aren't compatible with the Invisible Blade weapons (outside of the dagger), I need to swap one out. I am leaning towards losing Swordsage/Shadowblade, since the the invisible blade combo has the benefit of always flanking, which equals a higher attack roll modifier. But the dex to damage is more reliable, and gets mutliplied. In this instance, the extra attack wasn't really an issue. For the most part, the monk should be relying on Decisive Strike, which sacrifices a full attack anyways. I know it's a guaranteed attack, but it would be at +1 BAB, meaning it is hardly a guaranteed hit. Actually, it had to be Swordsage. In order to grab the Shadowblade feat, you need a Shadowhand stance. Only Swordsage has access to the Shadowhand discipline. Also, I was using Discipline Focus as Weapon Focus for Invisible Blade. Cleave is needed for Tactical Soldier, and Tactical Soldier is what allows the character to Flank anyone he strikes (in conjunction with Adaptable Flanker). This means a higher to-hit modifier and reliable sneak attack damage. Sidestep is actually a bonus feat from Tactical Soldier 2. I think I might just lose the whole flanking/SA damage part of the build. I may have been attempting too much. That frees up 3 feats and 4 levels. I don't know what I would put in though. I would like to maintain full BAB in those last 4 levels, just to keep my to-hit up. If I use the Sai as a weapon, I could go into Exotic Weapon Master. That would maintain the full BAB, and lessen the two-weapon fighting penalty by 1. But that seems a little bland :). Thanks for the help so far, any more suggestions? Why did you go to monk 3, instead of swordsage 2? The only reason I can think of is the +10ft bonus to speed, which isn't at all needed for this build. The second level of Swordsage would instead give you another maneuver (both known and readied, I believe, but I don't have my books) as well as another stance, +1 to two saves, and no loss to BAB. You do end up doubling on the AC bonuses (which don't stack), but that won't make a significant difference, particularly if you take the second level of Swordsage after the two monk levels (netting you higher level maneuvers than normal, thanks to a slightly improved initiator level). Unarmed strikes can get pretty useful without too much effort, and they're also Shadow Hand weapons. I'd suggest simply using those (though your attack and damage bonuses drop by about five points each), particularly when you're doubling up on damage via Decisive Strike. The flank/SA could be dropped, and for those four levels freed up you could just take a few levels of Warblade. One of the free feats can go to Adaptive Style (for much better Swordsage recovery earlier, then to recover Warblade and Swordsage at the same time later on). This gives you 4d12 instead of d8 to help with hit points, full BAB, and a good selection of maneuvers (counters are the ones to be specifically interested in here). Having the maneuvers helps keep the build from being a one-trick pony, and gives even more versatility to a build that already owns pretty much everything in melee. Or, if you want to keep the Wis synergy (though Int seriously isn't necessary to a Warblade, it only helps a bit), you could take two levels of Swordsage (keeping full BAB) to add +Wis to damage on strikes (like you'll use any) and more maneuvers known and readied of even higher levels. From there, EWM with sai would work well. Though not in that order. :P