Another Bladesinger Build [Archive] - Wizards Community

Another Bladesinger Build [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Kurama Youko
07-24-05, 09:14 AM Yeah so friend of mine wanted to be a Bladesinger once (he has fond memories of 2nd edition bladesingers, and reading lots of Forgotten Realms novels that had something to do with elves (drow or otherwise.) So I decided to pitch in and try to help him come up with one.

This is actually a return to idea from the first time he asked me (before 3.5 came out the the latest BS from Races of Faerun had its own spell list.) However after the new version in CW came out I decided to go a different route. Now the ones I've seen on the Gish board are fine and dandy, but Eldritch Knight with its D6 hit dice just aint cuttin it in my opinion if the class focuses on melee weapons and getting into the thick of things. So I looked around else where. Tell me if the following build floats anyones boat in terms of being a decent spellcaster as well as fighter.

Source Materials: PHB 3.5, Unearthed Arcana, Complete Warrior, Unapproachable East (FR),

Requirements: Campaign Setting Forgotten Realms, Elf, Minimum Int 14, okayed use of the Feat SKill Knowledge (UA) Though this might not be nesscesary depending on Int or how you spend your skill points and the ruling on cross class skills stacking with class skills (i'll explain later.)

Anyway for the first half of the build its pretty tight withnot much room for alternation.

First the class break down.

Fighter 1/Wizard 2/Elf Paragon 3/Spell Sword 1/Bladesinger 9/Master of Yuirwood 4.

Ability Score: 32 point buy and Moon Elf
Str: 14, Dex: 14+2 (16), Con: 16-2 (14), Int: 14, Wis: 10, Cha: 10
After 20 lvs of Class: +2 to Str, +2 Con, +1 Int
Str: 16, Dex: 14+2 (16), Con: 16-2+2 (16), Int: 15, Wis: 10, Cha: 10
Ability Increase at 6th lv from Elf Pragaon 3. Int: 17,

Skill Break Down: Starting with a 14 Int (though this may not be the case for everyone else, but i just wanted to show with a suboptimal int one might still pull this off.) the Fighter Skill Points are spent on the 2 rank requirements for Bladesinger, the 2 levels of wizard skill points are spent on Concentration and Knowledge Arcana. (These break downs dont assume a 17 int from the start they assume a 14 from the start until the relative int increase would normally apply.) the skill points from Elf Paragon are spent on Knowledge Arcana and Knowledge Nature and Surivival. (Skill points described above are raised to the minimum needed to qualify for PrC's.) Spellsword Skill points are spent on Survival. (Check Feat Selection below. DM may have to rule if Spellsword Knowledge is Knowledge all or Knowledge Arcana) Bladesinger Skill Points are spent on Survival (until qualified for last PrC) and whatever else you feel like you want to have. Lastly Master of Yuirwood if the previous break is slightly used should be a go ahead and skill points can be spent as you please. (I prefer Spot, Listen and Survival at this point.)

Feat Break Down:
1st Combat Casting (B)Combat Expertise
2nd (B)Scribe Scroll (B)Alertness (from Familiar)
3rd Skill Knowledge (Survival and Knowledge) (choose the previously mentioned two from your Elf Paragon Class skills.)
4th (B) Weapon Focus (Longsword or Rapier)
6th Dodge
9th Track
12th Practice Spellcaster (Wizard)
15th Arcane Strike
18th Mobile Spellcasting

HD Breakdown: 1d10 plus 2d4 plus 17d8 + (Con Modifier x Level or HD)
This Example would average 142 HP.

Base Saves: Fort: +12 Ref: +10 Will: +13
BAB: +17
Caster Level: 18 with Practice Spellcaster with Access to 7th level spells.
:) 7 seems to be the key number here.

You could swop out one lv of Master of Yuirwood for the last lv of Bladesinger so that you can get Song of Fury for a extra attack around but you'd lose a caster lv. :(

So what do you guys think. I didnt post this on the Gish thread because I think I remember the originator saying that UA classes or feats would never be considered Gish or something. *Shrug*
Lord Zeb
07-24-05, 10:01 AM Not too shabby, though with EK and now the Knight Phantom out there, I really wish WOTC would do a final Bladesinger that had more than 1/2 caster progressions.... would make us Bladesinger fans much happier ;)

Even a non-standard CL increase, like 7/10 or somethin'

Oh well -- as to your build, looks like a good combo to reach the bladesinger idea -- good work getting in 9 levels of BS!

I suppose a viable alternative could be (for the sake of CL)

Ftr 1 / Wiz 3 / EP 3 / BS 3 / Master of Yuirwood 10

... for CL 17, but at that point you are more Master of Yuirwood than Bladesinger /shrug
Kurama Youko
07-24-05, 10:25 AM Thanks for the kind word.
Muddman
07-24-05, 11:18 AM What about dropping the Master of the Yuirwood class levels and the Spellsword level and replace them with Grey Hand Enforcer levels?

5 level progression. 4 levels of spell caster progression, DR 3/-, and SR of 5 + character level. Also, some DMs may allow for you to substitute Improved toughness instead of toughness since the original toughness feat sucks so much that there is no reason it should exist anymore
Kurama Youko
07-24-05, 01:13 PM Because It sounds like a Eberron PrC or maybe a Third Party Book to which I dont have. I have admit this is a Faerun Build, Forgotten Realms. If you could tell me where this PrC is I'd consider it.

I also got to think Changing Mobility to Mobile Spellcasting would be alot better, though i am still confused on the feat, so i cast a spell with a casting time of 1 action while moving all as a standard action and then i can move some more with my move action? I'm trying to think of ways of how this can be useful for a Bladesinger.

Also the Spellsword allows for early entrance without that one lv of Spellsword I would either have to take 2 more lvs of wizard or 1 more lv of Fighter to get the BAB requirements for Bladesinger. So the Spellsword is kind of vital in that it has low requirements and gives a +1 BAB and +1 Spellcaster Lv so soon.

Also I made a mistake, the Caster lv With Practiced Spellcaster is 18, im sure thats alot more appealing to your guys and your a 14th lv wizard in terms of spells per day and spells in your spell book.
Lord Zeb
07-24-05, 03:36 PM Gray Hand Enforcer is in the City of Waterdeep book that just came out. Looks pretty sweet (4/5 CL and full BAB).
Kurama Youko
07-24-05, 03:53 PM Well it sounds interesting.. I will have to try and get my hands on that book.

How could a Fighter 1/Wizard 2/EP 3/ qualify for it right away?

it has peeked my interest. It might be worth it despite missing another caster lv bring it down to 17 caster lv, so long as it gives full bab to make up for it.
Lord Zeb
07-24-05, 04:07 PM Well it sounds interesting.. I will have to try and get my hands on that book.

How could a Fighter 1/Wizard 2/EP 3/ qualify for it right away?

it has peeked my interest. It might be worth it despite missing another caster lv bring it down to 17 caster lv, so long as it gives full bab to make up for it.

In looking at it, requirements include +7 BAB OR 4th level spells -- so it'd be something you could tack on after Bladesinger, not before.

Ftr 1 / Wiz 2 / EP 3 / Spellsword 1 / Bladesinger 8 / Gray Hand 5

BAB 18, CL 13 ... eh, interesting idea, but doesn't quite hit the spot

F1/W2/EP3/SS1 / Bladesinger 3 / Grey Hand 5 / Master of Yuirwood 5 is a little bit better with BAB 16 and CL 16.
Muddman
07-24-05, 04:07 PM Ohh yes, very nice class, I recommend the Waterdeep book in general, its REALLY good
Kurama Youko
07-24-05, 04:16 PM hmm, I see. Caster lv 13, yeah.. but i guess it depends on what your needs are im sure a guy like me really want hp and bab, spellcasting is okay at 7th or 8th lv spells. Practice Spellcaster is a blessing in these situations.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Kurama Youko 07-24-05, 09:14 AM	Yeah so friend of mine wanted to be a Bladesinger once (he has fond memories of 2nd edition bladesingers, and reading lots of Forgotten Realms novels that had something to do with elves (drow or otherwise.) So I decided to pitch in and try to help him come up with one. This is actually a return to idea from the first time he asked me (before 3.5 came out the the latest BS from Races of Faerun had its own spell list.) However after the new version in CW came out I decided to go a different route. Now the ones I've seen on the Gish board are fine and dandy, but Eldritch Knight with its D6 hit dice just aint cuttin it in my opinion if the class focuses on melee weapons and getting into the thick of things. So I looked around else where. Tell me if the following build floats anyones boat in terms of being a decent spellcaster as well as fighter. Source Materials: PHB 3.5, Unearthed Arcana, Complete Warrior, Unapproachable East (FR), Requirements: Campaign Setting Forgotten Realms, Elf, Minimum Int 14, okayed use of the Feat SKill Knowledge (UA) Though this might not be nesscesary depending on Int or how you spend your skill points and the ruling on cross class skills stacking with class skills (i'll explain later.) Anyway for the first half of the build its pretty tight withnot much room for alternation. First the class break down. Fighter 1/Wizard 2/Elf Paragon 3/Spell Sword 1/Bladesinger 9/Master of Yuirwood 4. Ability Score: 32 point buy and Moon Elf Str: 14, Dex: 14+2 (16), Con: 16-2 (14), Int: 14, Wis: 10, Cha: 10 After 20 lvs of Class: +2 to Str, +2 Con, +1 Int Str: 16, Dex: 14+2 (16), Con: 16-2+2 (16), Int: 15, Wis: 10, Cha: 10 Ability Increase at 6th lv from Elf Pragaon 3. Int: 17, Skill Break Down: Starting with a 14 Int (though this may not be the case for everyone else, but i just wanted to show with a suboptimal int one might still pull this off.) the Fighter Skill Points are spent on the 2 rank requirements for Bladesinger, the 2 levels of wizard skill points are spent on Concentration and Knowledge Arcana. (These break downs dont assume a 17 int from the start they assume a 14 from the start until the relative int increase would normally apply.) the skill points from Elf Paragon are spent on Knowledge Arcana and Knowledge Nature and Surivival. (Skill points described above are raised to the minimum needed to qualify for PrC's.) Spellsword Skill points are spent on Survival. (Check Feat Selection below. DM may have to rule if Spellsword Knowledge is Knowledge all or Knowledge Arcana) Bladesinger Skill Points are spent on Survival (until qualified for last PrC) and whatever else you feel like you want to have. Lastly Master of Yuirwood if the previous break is slightly used should be a go ahead and skill points can be spent as you please. (I prefer Spot, Listen and Survival at this point.) Feat Break Down: 1st Combat Casting (B)Combat Expertise 2nd (B)Scribe Scroll (B)Alertness (from Familiar) 3rd Skill Knowledge (Survival and Knowledge) (choose the previously mentioned two from your Elf Paragon Class skills.) 4th (B) Weapon Focus (Longsword or Rapier) 6th Dodge 9th Track 12th Practice Spellcaster (Wizard) 15th Arcane Strike 18th Mobile Spellcasting HD Breakdown: 1d10 plus 2d4 plus 17d8 + (Con Modifier x Level or HD) This Example would average 142 HP. Base Saves: Fort: +12 Ref: +10 Will: +13 BAB: +17 Caster Level: 18 with Practice Spellcaster with Access to 7th level spells. :) 7 seems to be the key number here. You could swop out one lv of Master of Yuirwood for the last lv of Bladesinger so that you can get Song of Fury for a extra attack around but you'd lose a caster lv. :( So what do you guys think. I didnt post this on the Gish thread because I think I remember the originator saying that UA classes or feats would never be considered Gish or something. Shrug
Lord Zeb 07-24-05, 10:01 AM	Not too shabby, though with EK and now the Knight Phantom out there, I really wish WOTC would do a final Bladesinger that had more than 1/2 caster progressions.... would make us Bladesinger fans much happier ;) Even a non-standard CL increase, like 7/10 or somethin' Oh well -- as to your build, looks like a good combo to reach the bladesinger idea -- good work getting in 9 levels of BS! I suppose a viable alternative could be (for the sake of CL) Ftr 1 / Wiz 3 / EP 3 / BS 3 / Master of Yuirwood 10 ... for CL 17, but at that point you are more Master of Yuirwood than Bladesinger /shrug
Kurama Youko 07-24-05, 10:25 AM	Thanks for the kind word.
Muddman 07-24-05, 11:18 AM	What about dropping the Master of the Yuirwood class levels and the Spellsword level and replace them with Grey Hand Enforcer levels? 5 level progression. 4 levels of spell caster progression, DR 3/-, and SR of 5 + character level. Also, some DMs may allow for you to substitute Improved toughness instead of toughness since the original toughness feat sucks so much that there is no reason it should exist anymore
Kurama Youko 07-24-05, 01:13 PM	Because It sounds like a Eberron PrC or maybe a Third Party Book to which I dont have. I have admit this is a Faerun Build, Forgotten Realms. If you could tell me where this PrC is I'd consider it. I also got to think Changing Mobility to Mobile Spellcasting would be alot better, though i am still confused on the feat, so i cast a spell with a casting time of 1 action while moving all as a standard action and then i can move some more with my move action? I'm trying to think of ways of how this can be useful for a Bladesinger. Also the Spellsword allows for early entrance without that one lv of Spellsword I would either have to take 2 more lvs of wizard or 1 more lv of Fighter to get the BAB requirements for Bladesinger. So the Spellsword is kind of vital in that it has low requirements and gives a +1 BAB and +1 Spellcaster Lv so soon. Also I made a mistake, the Caster lv With Practiced Spellcaster is 18, im sure thats alot more appealing to your guys and your a 14th lv wizard in terms of spells per day and spells in your spell book.
Lord Zeb 07-24-05, 03:36 PM	Gray Hand Enforcer is in the City of Waterdeep book that just came out. Looks pretty sweet (4/5 CL and full BAB).
Kurama Youko 07-24-05, 03:53 PM	Well it sounds interesting.. I will have to try and get my hands on that book. How could a Fighter 1/Wizard 2/EP 3/ qualify for it right away? it has peeked my interest. It might be worth it despite missing another caster lv bring it down to 17 caster lv, so long as it gives full bab to make up for it.
Lord Zeb 07-24-05, 04:07 PM	Well it sounds interesting.. I will have to try and get my hands on that book. How could a Fighter 1/Wizard 2/EP 3/ qualify for it right away? it has peeked my interest. It might be worth it despite missing another caster lv bring it down to 17 caster lv, so long as it gives full bab to make up for it. In looking at it, requirements include +7 BAB OR 4th level spells -- so it'd be something you could tack on after Bladesinger, not before. Ftr 1 / Wiz 2 / EP 3 / Spellsword 1 / Bladesinger 8 / Gray Hand 5 BAB 18, CL 13 ... eh, interesting idea, but doesn't quite hit the spot F1/W2/EP3/SS1 / Bladesinger 3 / Grey Hand 5 / Master of Yuirwood 5 is a little bit better with BAB 16 and CL 16.
Muddman 07-24-05, 04:07 PM	Ohh yes, very nice class, I recommend the Waterdeep book in general, its REALLY good
Kurama Youko 07-24-05, 04:16 PM	hmm, I see. Caster lv 13, yeah.. but i guess it depends on what your needs are im sure a guy like me really want hp and bab, spellcasting is okay at 7th or 8th lv spells. Practice Spellcaster is a blessing in these situations.