Another Spear Wielding Character... :) [Archive] - Wizards Community

Another Spear Wielding Character... :) [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Ashianyl
02-24-05, 11:34 AM I've been trying hard to optimize a kung fu movie style long spear wielding character and have gone through various builds I saw in the FAQ.

This is the result... can someone just go over it and tell me how I can improve it further?

Restrictions:
Would like to keep with the flavor of the character though, so I prefer not to class dip too much. This character will not touch Divine stuff for RP reasons. (She has nothing against the gods, but thinks the Faerunian gods act like puppeteers who play around with the lives of the people)

3.5 materials only with most books allowed.

Character starting at Level 6 based in FR, with mapped out progression in the event we do go Epic.

Stats: 28 point buy
STR 14, DEX 15, CON 14, INT 8, WIS 15, CHA 8

01 Monk1 - Imp Unarm Strike, Stun Fist, Stand Still (1st), Track (Human)
02 Monk2 - Combat Reflexes
03 Psyw1 - Overchannel, Talented
04 Psyw2 - Hold the Line, Wis+1
05 Psyw3
06 Psyw4 - Deft Opportunist
07 Slayer1
08 Slayer2 - Wis+1
09 Slayer3 - Weakening Strike
10 Slayer4
11 Slayer5
12 Slayer6 - Sun School Tactical, Wis+1
13 Slayer7
14 Slayer8
15 Slayer9 - Enduring Life
16 Slayer10 - Wis+1
17 Psyw5 - Ancestral Relic – Long Spear
18 Psyw6 - Ex. Knowledge – Fiery Discorporation
19 Psyw7
20 Psyw8 - Ex. Knowledge – Psionic Plane Shift, Wis+1

Notes on tactics:
This character kinda fights during opponent's turn, using her own actions to buff and moving into position.

Standstill, Combat Reflexes, Hold the Line and Deft Opportunist is used to control the battlefield - I plan on using Strength of My Enemy in conjunction with Hold the Line and Standstill to sap 2 pts of Str against anyone charging me. I plan on using my opponent's Str against them, kinda like an Aikido/Taichi fighting style concept. :D

At level 9, if opponent gets within 5ft, I will go for a Weakening Strike AoO to sap their Str by another 6pts.

Choice of other feats after Level 9 are mostly for flavor, except for Ancestral Relic feat because that's how I intend to take down Antimagic Field Undead characters (faced one before, didn't like feeling helpless against one).

Power Progression:
03 Psyw1 - Inertial Armor
04 Psyw2 - Expansion
05 Psyw3 - Metaphysical Weapon
06 Psyw4 - Strength of My Enemy
08 Slayer2 - Prowess
09 Slayer3 - Energy Adaptation, Specified
10 Slayer4 - Dimensional Slide
11 Slayer5 - Concealing Amorpha, Greater
12 Slayer6 - Empathic Transfer, Hostile
13 Slayer7 - Freedom of Movement
14 Slayer8 - Body Purification
15 Slayer9 - Body Adjustment
16 Slayer10 - Inertial Barrier
17 Psyw5 - Adapt Body
18 Psyw6 - Ectoplasmic Form
19 Psyw7 - Dispelling Buffer
20 Psyw8 - Form of Doom

Thanks! :)
Tempest Stormwind
02-24-05, 02:01 PM Well, for what it's worth, we just did Li Mu Bai (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=384380), and that build works just fine with a spear. It's all 3.5 -- the OA update to 3.5 states that unless it addresses material explicitly, it can be used in 3.5 without a problem, and the blade dancer isn't addressed.

It's pretty much just bare bones, though, so you can alter the feats as you see fit.
Lord Likk
02-24-05, 02:25 PM overchannel is really hard to use at the low level you get it at, and doesn't it have a cl cap anyway? i'd wait until you can at least buff your cl by 2, since 1 doesn't make much of a difference. in place of it, taking ancestral relic a lot sooner would definitely be beneficial, i think. part of the fun of it is progressing with the weapon, you know? also, instead of saving lots of useless items until lvl.17, you can use them to enhance your weapon as you find them.

for the ability scores, unless you really need 16 dex and wis by lvl.8, or something, leaving dex at 14 and bringing wis up to 16 would prove highly beneficial.

there's a 2nd lvl psywar power in the mind's eye compendium that adds 5' to your reach. it's called reach (heh), and you can augment to give it a nice duration. is prowess the power that gives you an extra attack of opportunity? if not, you should take that power. i'd also think about expanded knowlesge (schism). you could use that sort of like the 3.0 bladesinger; make as many attacks as you can and buff yourself once per turn, until, around the middle of combat, your nigh-unstoppable to all the low-duration buffs. vigor is also a good power you should consider, especially at low levels. can psywars change out powers known? if so, you could think taking it only at first, but i can't find any powers you can easily do without early on.
Tempest Stormwind
02-24-05, 03:02 PM overchannel is really hard to use at the low level you get it at, and doesn't it have a cl cap anyway? i'd wait until you can at least buff your cl by 2, since 1 doesn't make much of a difference. in place of it, taking ancestral relic a lot sooner would definitely be beneficial, i think. part of the fun of it is progressing with the weapon, you know? also, instead of saving lots of useless items until lvl.17, you can use them to enhance your weapon as you find them.
Manifester levels are relatively more important than caster levels, even if you have to pay for every increase, plus at level 1 overchanneling for 1 DOUBLES your ML, which is a big thing. The big problem with Overchannel at low levels is the 1d8 damage (as a 1st level psion has 4+CON HP. Only an 18 CON can guarantee overchanneling won't kill you, and even then you'll fall unconcious in a worst-case scenario.) That, plus repeated Overchanneling adding up the damage, is the reason why most overchannelers only do it in times of need, or rely on a metapsionicist's use of focus and the Talented feat.

Still, the rest of your advice is sound -- if one were to move Ancestral Relic sooner, then Overchannel would be one of the feats to delay, I think.

for the ability scores, unless you really need 16 dex and wis by lvl.8, or something, leaving dex at 14 and bringing wis up to 16 would prove highly beneficial. Agree fully. You lose 1 attack of opportunity per round, but gain more bonus PP (and AC is unchanged as a monk). The psywar has far too few PP to manifest frequently, and your original idea has a fair bit of manifesting (notably with many repeated buffs, and 1 round/level duration buffs, like Strength of My Enemy, factoring majorly into strategy).

there's a 2nd lvl psywar power in the mind's eye compendium that adds 5' to your reach. it's called reach (heh), and you can augment to give it a nice duration. is prowess the power that gives you an extra attack of opportunity? if not, you should take that power. i'd also think about expanded knowlesge (schism). you could use that sort of like the 3.0 bladesinger; make as many attacks as you can and buff yourself once per turn, until, around the middle of combat, your nigh-unstoppable to all the low-duration buffs. vigor is also a good power you should consider, especially at low levels. can psywars change out powers known? if so, you could think taking it only at first, but i can't find any powers you can easily do without early on.

Reach is indeed a good power, especially since it stacks with pretty much anything.

Prowess is the Immediate-Action, Gain-An-AoO power, yes. It's generally a waste of precious PP on the psywar, though.

Schism's -6 ML is HUGE. It's worth it if you don't plan on augmenting your powers much, though. On the other hand, psywars have so few power points that any way to blow through them even FASTER is, on the most part, either unwise or a very calculated move.

No psionic characters can ever swap out their powers known, although there are four powers which affect Powers Known -- Apopsi, Psychic Chirugery, Psychic Reformation, and Thieving Mindlink. Psychic Reformation is the most useful of these to you, but unless you blow an Expanded Knowledge feat on it, you'll have to have a friend use it on you, or manifest it from THEIR powers-known (which psionic characters can do. It's tricky, but here it'll save them the XP cost).
Welt
02-24-05, 03:11 PM You might want to look into Serpent Strike, from the Eberron Campaign Setting; it allows you to use longspears as a monk weapon.
Ashianyl
02-24-05, 08:09 PM Thanks for all the feedback and for redirecting me to Li Mu Bai... cool concept. Just what I was looking for.

As for the Dex 15 thingy, it's for the requirements for Deft Opportunist... Kinda like that +4 to hit... :D

But I see your point... time to redo some of the levels and add in Shou Disciple and Elocater.
PhoenixInferno
02-24-05, 08:36 PM If you can sneak in a level of War Mind and advance War Mind manifesting with Slayer, you can score WAY more power points than a Psychic Warrior of the same manifester level.
Ashianyl
02-25-05, 12:17 AM PhoenixInferno
If you can sneak in a level of War Mind and advance War Mind manifesting with Slayer, you can score WAY more power points than a Psychic Warrior of the same manifester level.

Ye read me mind! :D

I was thinking of going War Mind now that the class has moved away from manifesting powers to a martial prowess type.

But I would like to retain the Str of my Enemy combo cos that's the character flavor I had in mind.

Am messing around with the Level progression of the build to see how I can get the level 2 power while balancing it with battlefield uberness.

Sigh, min/maxing characters can be tough when you give yourself a concept to adhere to.

:)

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Ashianyl 02-24-05, 11:34 AM	I've been trying hard to optimize a kung fu movie style long spear wielding character and have gone through various builds I saw in the FAQ. This is the result... can someone just go over it and tell me how I can improve it further? Restrictions: Would like to keep with the flavor of the character though, so I prefer not to class dip too much. This character will not touch Divine stuff for RP reasons. (She has nothing against the gods, but thinks the Faerunian gods act like puppeteers who play around with the lives of the people) 3.5 materials only with most books allowed. Character starting at Level 6 based in FR, with mapped out progression in the event we do go Epic. Stats: 28 point buy STR 14, DEX 15, CON 14, INT 8, WIS 15, CHA 8 01 Monk1 - Imp Unarm Strike, Stun Fist, Stand Still (1st), Track (Human) 02 Monk2 - Combat Reflexes 03 Psyw1 - Overchannel, Talented 04 Psyw2 - Hold the Line, Wis+1 05 Psyw3 06 Psyw4 - Deft Opportunist 07 Slayer1 08 Slayer2 - Wis+1 09 Slayer3 - Weakening Strike 10 Slayer4 11 Slayer5 12 Slayer6 - Sun School Tactical, Wis+1 13 Slayer7 14 Slayer8 15 Slayer9 - Enduring Life 16 Slayer10 - Wis+1 17 Psyw5 - Ancestral Relic – Long Spear 18 Psyw6 - Ex. Knowledge – Fiery Discorporation 19 Psyw7 20 Psyw8 - Ex. Knowledge – Psionic Plane Shift, Wis+1 Notes on tactics: This character kinda fights during opponent's turn, using her own actions to buff and moving into position. Standstill, Combat Reflexes, Hold the Line and Deft Opportunist is used to control the battlefield - I plan on using Strength of My Enemy in conjunction with Hold the Line and Standstill to sap 2 pts of Str against anyone charging me. I plan on using my opponent's Str against them, kinda like an Aikido/Taichi fighting style concept. :D At level 9, if opponent gets within 5ft, I will go for a Weakening Strike AoO to sap their Str by another 6pts. Choice of other feats after Level 9 are mostly for flavor, except for Ancestral Relic feat because that's how I intend to take down Antimagic Field Undead characters (faced one before, didn't like feeling helpless against one). Power Progression: 03 Psyw1 - Inertial Armor 04 Psyw2 - Expansion 05 Psyw3 - Metaphysical Weapon 06 Psyw4 - Strength of My Enemy 08 Slayer2 - Prowess 09 Slayer3 - Energy Adaptation, Specified 10 Slayer4 - Dimensional Slide 11 Slayer5 - Concealing Amorpha, Greater 12 Slayer6 - Empathic Transfer, Hostile 13 Slayer7 - Freedom of Movement 14 Slayer8 - Body Purification 15 Slayer9 - Body Adjustment 16 Slayer10 - Inertial Barrier 17 Psyw5 - Adapt Body 18 Psyw6 - Ectoplasmic Form 19 Psyw7 - Dispelling Buffer 20 Psyw8 - Form of Doom Thanks! :)
Tempest Stormwind 02-24-05, 02:01 PM	Well, for what it's worth, we just did Li Mu Bai (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=384380), and that build works just fine with a spear. It's all 3.5 -- the OA update to 3.5 states that unless it addresses material explicitly, it can be used in 3.5 without a problem, and the blade dancer isn't addressed. It's pretty much just bare bones, though, so you can alter the feats as you see fit.
Lord Likk 02-24-05, 02:25 PM	overchannel is really hard to use at the low level you get it at, and doesn't it have a cl cap anyway? i'd wait until you can at least buff your cl by 2, since 1 doesn't make much of a difference. in place of it, taking ancestral relic a lot sooner would definitely be beneficial, i think. part of the fun of it is progressing with the weapon, you know? also, instead of saving lots of useless items until lvl.17, you can use them to enhance your weapon as you find them. for the ability scores, unless you really need 16 dex and wis by lvl.8, or something, leaving dex at 14 and bringing wis up to 16 would prove highly beneficial. there's a 2nd lvl psywar power in the mind's eye compendium that adds 5' to your reach. it's called reach (heh), and you can augment to give it a nice duration. is prowess the power that gives you an extra attack of opportunity? if not, you should take that power. i'd also think about expanded knowlesge (schism). you could use that sort of like the 3.0 bladesinger; make as many attacks as you can and buff yourself once per turn, until, around the middle of combat, your nigh-unstoppable to all the low-duration buffs. vigor is also a good power you should consider, especially at low levels. can psywars change out powers known? if so, you could think taking it only at first, but i can't find any powers you can easily do without early on.
Tempest Stormwind 02-24-05, 03:02 PM	overchannel is really hard to use at the low level you get it at, and doesn't it have a cl cap anyway? i'd wait until you can at least buff your cl by 2, since 1 doesn't make much of a difference. in place of it, taking ancestral relic a lot sooner would definitely be beneficial, i think. part of the fun of it is progressing with the weapon, you know? also, instead of saving lots of useless items until lvl.17, you can use them to enhance your weapon as you find them. Manifester levels are relatively more important than caster levels, even if you have to pay for every increase, plus at level 1 overchanneling for 1 DOUBLES your ML, which is a big thing. The big problem with Overchannel at low levels is the 1d8 damage (as a 1st level psion has 4+CON HP. Only an 18 CON can guarantee overchanneling won't kill you, and even then you'll fall unconcious in a worst-case scenario.) That, plus repeated Overchanneling adding up the damage, is the reason why most overchannelers only do it in times of need, or rely on a metapsionicist's use of focus and the Talented feat. Still, the rest of your advice is sound -- if one were to move Ancestral Relic sooner, then Overchannel would be one of the feats to delay, I think. for the ability scores, unless you really need 16 dex and wis by lvl.8, or something, leaving dex at 14 and bringing wis up to 16 would prove highly beneficial. Agree fully. You lose 1 attack of opportunity per round, but gain more bonus PP (and AC is unchanged as a monk). The psywar has far too few PP to manifest frequently, and your original idea has a fair bit of manifesting (notably with many repeated buffs, and 1 round/level duration buffs, like Strength of My Enemy, factoring majorly into strategy). there's a 2nd lvl psywar power in the mind's eye compendium that adds 5' to your reach. it's called reach (heh), and you can augment to give it a nice duration. is prowess the power that gives you an extra attack of opportunity? if not, you should take that power. i'd also think about expanded knowlesge (schism). you could use that sort of like the 3.0 bladesinger; make as many attacks as you can and buff yourself once per turn, until, around the middle of combat, your nigh-unstoppable to all the low-duration buffs. vigor is also a good power you should consider, especially at low levels. can psywars change out powers known? if so, you could think taking it only at first, but i can't find any powers you can easily do without early on. Reach is indeed a good power, especially since it stacks with pretty much anything. Prowess is the Immediate-Action, Gain-An-AoO power, yes. It's generally a waste of precious PP on the psywar, though. Schism's -6 ML is HUGE. It's worth it if you don't plan on augmenting your powers much, though. On the other hand, psywars have so few power points that any way to blow through them even FASTER is, on the most part, either unwise or a very calculated move. No psionic characters can ever swap out their powers known, although there are four powers which affect Powers Known -- Apopsi, Psychic Chirugery, Psychic Reformation, and Thieving Mindlink. Psychic Reformation is the most useful of these to you, but unless you blow an Expanded Knowledge feat on it, you'll have to have a friend use it on you, or manifest it from THEIR powers-known (which psionic characters can do. It's tricky, but here it'll save them the XP cost).
Welt 02-24-05, 03:11 PM	You might want to look into Serpent Strike, from the Eberron Campaign Setting; it allows you to use longspears as a monk weapon.
Ashianyl 02-24-05, 08:09 PM	Thanks for all the feedback and for redirecting me to Li Mu Bai... cool concept. Just what I was looking for. As for the Dex 15 thingy, it's for the requirements for Deft Opportunist... Kinda like that +4 to hit... :D But I see your point... time to redo some of the levels and add in Shou Disciple and Elocater.
PhoenixInferno 02-24-05, 08:36 PM	If you can sneak in a level of War Mind and advance War Mind manifesting with Slayer, you can score WAY more power points than a Psychic Warrior of the same manifester level.
Ashianyl 02-25-05, 12:17 AM	PhoenixInferno If you can sneak in a level of War Mind and advance War Mind manifesting with Slayer, you can score WAY more power points than a Psychic Warrior of the same manifester level. Ye read me mind! :D I was thinking of going War Mind now that the class has moved away from manifesting powers to a martial prowess type. But I would like to retain the Str of my Enemy combo cos that's the character flavor I had in mind. Am messing around with the Level progression of the build to see how I can get the level 2 power while balancing it with battlefield uberness. Sigh, min/maxing characters can be tough when you give yourself a concept to adhere to. :)