Post/Author/DateTime	Post
adiaven 01-28-04, 04:45 PM	This time with a ranger vs juvenile red dragon... next week is the encounter. my party is busy with another encounter, so it is just me vs the dragon. Arena: I am pretty sure I will catch the dragon in it's den, a little off guard. If there is room for the dragon to fly, it won't be very high. It may have an escape hatch though, not sure. Tale of the Tape.. In the Red corner: Juvenile Red Dragon - stats unknown. All I know is the DM was chuckling while rolling for HP, etc. In the gold corner: Mitharwen, level 8 wood elf ranger Str 20 Dex 18 con 13 int 8 wis 13 cha 9 HP 48 (stop laughing, I am a 3.5 ranger) AC 24 (see below) Fort: +8 Reflex: +8 Will: +5 Right hand: Short Sword + 1 + Frost +13/8 To hit. 3D6+10 damage vs red dragon Left hand: Short Sword + 1 + Dragon Bane +15/10 To hit 1D6 + 9 damage vs dragons Composite Longbow (+4 str) - normal arrows (ugh) Armor: Platnium Chain Mail +4 + Fire Resistance 20 (given to the ranger just before entering the dragon's den by a celestial gold dragon. DM pitied me. I was wearing a plain chain shirt at this point. Armor will crumble to dust when the fight is over) Feats: Weapon Focus: Short sword Sacred Vow Vow of Obediance Normal Ranger stuff (1 level short of Evasion!!) Favored enemy: Dragon + 4 to damage, etc Other equipment: Potion of Cure Serious Wounds x3 Potion of Cure Lt wounds X2 Potion of Levitate Potion of Dark Vision Potion of Spider Climb Potion of Prot Elem Fire Potion of Haste Potion of Cat's Grace Potion of Blur Potion of Invisibilty (doesn't do much vs dragon blind sense, right?) Dust of Tracelessness Potion of Hide Potion of Sneak Rope of Climbing Only 6 of those potions get to be on my belt. Rest in my bag Anyone want to give this odds on this fight? I will post a round by round summary next week. Anyone got any tactics to use? Beforehand: Use potions of Hide, Sneak, Blur, Spider Climb, Prot Fire, Cat's Grace, and Levitate (just in case). Sneak up to 110' of dragon Opening with the bow (casting hunter's mercy) and then praying he does not spot me or hear me as hide again. Repeat until his blind sense is close enough. Then I hope my fire resistance will let me with no damge from the 1st breath attack. I will continue attacking with bow (ready vs spell casting) until it moves forward. If he does, I will then charge in with both swords. If all 4 attacks of mine hit (possible, but not likely) I can do an average of 62 points of damage per round against a red dragon. The problem is I don't know if I can stand up to a full round attack from him. If I had a cleric behind me healing, this fight could be won. Any tricks with the Rope of Climbing you think of?
Funny Slaughter 01-28-04, 07:13 PM	Anyone got any tactics to use? dont die :smirk: gs Funny
LordShade 01-28-04, 07:22 PM	Hmm. Who's writing your eulogy? Seriously, how many points will your protection potion absorb? This is important, I think. Second - Can you take Defensive Favored Enemy with your second ranger FE?
Previn 01-28-04, 11:13 PM	I can't see you coming close to killing the dragon like this. I doubt that you'll do significant damage to the beast as you are. First, it's got an AC of 24 on average, giving you under a 50% chance to hit. The dragon on the other hand has, well it missed you on a natural 1. And the dragon is going to do 4d8+6d6+38 on a full attack, meaning 1 round toe to toe with it will kill you, even if it rolls all 1s for damage. Given that it's breath weapon is practically useless, expect it to close very quickly. Moving on to items: Potion of Cure Serious Wounds x3 Potion of Cure Lt wounds X2 Drop those, it you need them, you're already dead. The dragon's damage output can kill you in one round. Potion of Levitate Drop this as well, it doesn't let you manuver, you can only go up or down. Pick up a potion of fly instead. Of course, neither potion will allow you to match the dragons' normal fly speed of 150', let alone full move by the dragon. Potion of Dark Vision Could come in handy, so keep it. Potion of Spider Climb Drop it. A potion of Fly is better. Potion of Prot Elem Fire Drop this as well. You've got Fire Resistance of 20 on your armor. The dragon can only do 48 max damage to you with it's breath weapon, which is actually only about 27 on average, and just under half of the time you'll make save. This means the dragon's breath weapon is basically 0 or 7 damage. Potion of Haste Drop it, it doesn't last long enough to be of any use. Potion of Cat's Grace Could help, but I doubt that it will make much difference. Means the draong misses on a 3 or less. You'll most likely win initiative anyways, and you're not using you dex to hit so the benifits are minimal. I would probibly drop this as well. Potion of Blur Drop it, blindsight negates it. Potion of Invisibilty (doesn't do much vs dragon blind sense, right?) Yup. Chuck it. The dragon will have blindsight out to 240'. Dust of Tracelessness Er, drop this. If the dragon is tracking you, you are a dead man. Potion of Hide Potion of Sneak Assuming this give a bonus for at least half an hour keep them, otherwise drop them. Rope of Climbing Drop it, you'd be far better of with an item that grants flying. Tactics: Beforehand: Use potions of Hide, Sneak, Blur, Spider Climb, Prot Fire, Cat's Grace, and Levitate (just in case). Sneak up to 110' of dragon Opening with the bow (casting hunter's mercy) and then praying he does not spot me or hear me as hide again. Repeat until his blind sense is close enough. Then I hope my fire resistance will let me with no damge from the 1st breath attack. I will continue attacking with bow (ready vs spell casting) until it moves forward. If he does, I will then charge in with both swords. If all 4 attacks of mine hit (possible, but not likely) I can do an average of 62 points of damage per round against a red dragon. First thing is the dragon's blind sight is 240' so you're going to have problems getting closer than that. If you do, and then attack from hiding, you get a -20 penality to your hide check. Given that dragons typically max out Spot, and Listen, he'll see you after your first attack almost assuredly. Thereafter you can't hide again because you will be under observation. Assuming that you do get up and get the hunter's mercy off (it having a verbal component that can be hear from 30' with no listen check), you do not automatically confirm the critical. You will to roll to do that, meaning that you're going to miss the critcal about a third of the time. Of course the dragon gets a listen check the round before you fire anyways. Closing is also ill advised. I see the combat going something like this (favoring you heavily): Surprise Round: You cast a hunter's mercy and dragon doesn't spot you. Round 1: You win initiative and fire at the dragon, striking and confirming a critical and dealing 48 points of damge (your maximum). The dragon then spots you, and closes to 40' with a fly and breaths on you. You make the save, and take no damage. At this point the dragon is in the air, and out of melee reach. Round 2: You take a full attack with the bow, and get two hits, but no critical, the dragon takes another 25 points of damage. At this point the dragon stops flying by way of falling 10' and taking no damage, and charges you, hits and deals 11 points of damage. Since you have the bow draw, no attacks are incured bu you. Round 3: You make an untrained tumble check to by-pass the dragon's 10' bite reach, draw both swords as part of the tumble, and engage the dragon with one (you've moved more than 5'). You hit and deal another normal hit for 12 points of damage. The dragon at this point is down 85 of it's 102 hp. The dragon full attacks you. You are dead. So three rounds on a good day. I think you'll get maybe half of it's HP if you're lucky and roll well.
pawsplay 01-28-04, 11:20 PM	Maybe if you had evasion, one more Feat, and a lot more potions you'd have a chance.
PheonixSunstar 01-29-04, 12:34 AM	Dragons have Blindsense not Blindsight in 3.5 so you may have better luck if your DM is using 3.5 stats. All in all, I'd say it really is going to depend on luck more than anything. But then again I am not very good at planning tactics so I could be wrong. At any rate I wish you the best of luck :)
Sisyfos 01-29-04, 01:40 AM	I don't think this will depend on luck. It will depend on the DM, how he will adjust his rolls. Your problem is that the opponent hits you with 95% propability so the DM cannot make him miss too often ;) Sisyfos PS. Can you get your hands on some arrows of slaying? Might be your best bet.
PhaedrusXY 01-29-04, 01:40 AM	Actually, the potion of Fly is a very good idea. The dragon has a very high movement rate while flying, but bad manuverability. If you stay in an area in it's lair where it can't really fly, but you can because of your Perfect manuverability, it will be forced into making flying jumps at you. It may try to grapple you to bring you to the ground, but hopefully the potion of Blur will help here. What feats do you have? Manyshot would come in very handy here. You could constantly move around and get multiple shots off at it to keep from taking a full attack from it. And the potion of Haste can still be useful. Just drink it last from hiding, right before you attack the dragon, heh.
Boondoggle 01-29-04, 08:32 AM	Umm, a level 8 character vs a CR 10 dragon... The dragon could probably wipe out your entire party with relative ease; you pose even less of a threat. That said, you need a potion of endurance and an item of fire shield (cold version) [read the spell] in order to have the slightest chance.
elijahsound 01-30-04, 03:50 AM	I believe you have a chance... don't let these naysayers deter you from going a head with it. I'll attempt to give you some pointers... and hopefully after the combat you can report that you vanquished the beast. Previn - I believe you were using a 3.0 dragon or something, cause I've got some way different stats in my Draconomicon. Item #1: Juvenile Red Dragon's Strengths a. Breath Weapon - 8d10 Reflex DC 22, Avg Damage 44 b. Full Attack Actions - Avg Damage = 65 near 90% probability +24(2d6+9), 2 x +20(1d8+4), 2 x +19(1d6+4), +19(1d8+13) c. HD - 16d12+64 = 168! d. Keen Senses - 120ft. Darkvision, 60ft. Blindsense, Spot +21, Listen +18 e. Sorcerer Spells - as 3rd Level Sorcerer f. Grapple/Sheer Strength - +29 Grapple g. Mobility - Fly 150ft.(poor) h. Others - too many strengths to mention, it's a DRAGON! Item #2: Juvenile Red Dragon's Weaknesses I. Vulnerability to Cold - Takes 2 X Cold damage. Ok, so we've got a bunch of things to worry about, and only one real key weakness. So the majority of our tactics will be to eliminate as many of these advantages as possible. Let's just go down the list. Potion of Protection from Energy(Fire)- if you can get one at Caster Level 10 it would cost 1500gp Would give you protection from 120 points of fire, negating the breath weapon for approximately 3 rounds. Potion of Displacement - gives 50% miss chance effectively giving you an AC in the 30s. Cost 750gp. This is not negated by Blindsense because blind sense just tells you that someone is "present" not a location. Also, since the amount of damage of just a standard attack is on average 16, you want to stick and move. If the dragon hits with a whole volley, you are dead. +1 Bane Arrows - 1d8+4str+4fav+3magic+2d6 = AVG 22 Get 6 of them for 1000gp Potion of Fire Shield - Try to get a potion of this, or a magic item that casts it. The potion would cost 1400 base, but since it's a 4th level spell you'll need to find a Master Alchemist(if they exist in your world). Exhaust all possible ways to get this spell, since it will probably be the difference. do not try to hide... you will fail. Use the Potion of visibility Can't do much about this... just be ready for a True Strike with full BAB into Power Attack. Stay away from it as best as you can. The Fire Shield Potion would protect you from the dragon grappling you. Poor Fly Maneuverability - they must move at least half move forward every round, Minimum 45 degree turns in a single space, fly min 20ft. to make a 180 degree turn. The idea mentioned by PhaedrusXY is a good one. The primary one in this category is the Lair. It might be trapped, protected, guarded by Ogres. Be prepared. [/list=a] Oh, I just thought of it, but get a scroll of Entangle. Ok, here's a brief "what I would do" for tactics: [list] Use Potion of Protection from Fire. Duration 50 or 100 mins. Use Potion of Invisibility to do recon in lair, to find a space that you can snipe it from, and to set up Hunter's Mercy with DragonBane Arrows OR find some plants to Entangle with. Surprise Round - Cast Entangle on Dragon, from just within 110ft. Dragon is reduced to half move for possibly 80ft. Take it 2 rounds to walk through it. If no plants, Round 1 is Surprise Round. Round 1 - Cast Hunter's Mercy. Round 2 - Shoot. Move. Avg Dam 20, 60% 60dam Round 3 - Drink Fire Shield Potion. Move away. Round 4 - Cast Hunter's Mercy. Move. Round 5 - Shoot. Move. Avg Dam 20, 60% 60dam Round 6 - Full Attack. 60% Dam 20 30% Dam 20 Round 7 - Move. Drink Potion of Displacement. Round 8 - Move. Shoot. 60% Dam 20 Round 9 - Move. Shoot. 60% Dam 20 Round 10- Drop bow, Keep moving and Attacking, until you die or it dies. Fire Shield will deal 2d6+14(avg 21) Cold Damage per hit, to the dragon. Purposely fail tumble checks to deal this damage to the dragon once every 2 or 3 rounds. Just think that on a full round action the dragon could take 6 x (2d6+14) Avg126 with all hits... Although... you'd probably be dead. This will work I think... but you'll need some dice on your side too. Oh ya... your Hit Points are BELOW Average. So you need an AMulet of Endurance, or something. I hope this helps. You do have a chance, but just play smart and do everything you can to not take full round actions. Good luck, Eli
adiaven 01-30-04, 04:04 AM	Well, I had the encounter. Here is how it went: As somewhat expected, dragon was in cavern backed up into a cavern where it couldn't fly (until it moved out to meet me). I had the following effects on me: Darkvision, Haste (5 rounds), Blur, Levitate (in case I fell), Spider Climb, Hiding, Sneak, Longstrider (40' speed), Bear's Endurance. Engagement started at greater than 110 feet, when we both made our listen checks. I won initiative, cast Hunter's Mercy. Dragon heard me and cast Protection from Good. 2nd round: I missed the critical roll, did 8 damage. Moved back 40' Dragon moved forward 80' 3rd round: Fired 1 shot from bow, moved back again 40'. Did 7 damage Dragon moved 40', used breath weapon.. no damge due to fire prot and fire resist armor. failed reflex save tho :( 4th round: Fired another arrow, moved back 40. did like 9 damage Dragon double moved to within 10' of me 5th round I take 5' step, draw both swords, do full 5 attack. hit twice with dragon bane sword, once with frost sword.. over 50 points of damage. Dragon does full round attack. Lands 4 hits, missing with wing and tail! Blur takes out 1 more attack (less than 20% on 1 roll). So 3 hits, including the bite do 35+ damage. I am more than half dead. 6th round: Tumble check succeeds (no ranks! heh), I tumble away, drink potion of cure critical wounds. Heals me for 29! Dragon closes to 10', takes bite attack for 17 damage 7th round: I take 5' foot step forward, another full round attack. I land twice with dragon bane sword, one a critical, and I land twice with frost sword. 74 damage!! but Dragon does not drop. Dragon takes full round attack, hits all 6. Blur does not affect any hits. Does enough damage to drop me to -6 HP. Dragon eats me for a snack :( DM told me I was 37 HP from killing it. (out of 168) If I could find a way to use a bow longer, or get 3 full round attacks in, I could kill it. I think my party could easily kill this CR10 dragon. I think my friend's 8th level paladin (who took dragon hunter and dragon hunter defence feats) could have a decent chance against it. I also think a 8th or 9th level Barb might have the HP to kill it too. Even with some lucky breaks for me (missing the first tail swipe, and blur taking out a hit or two. Also getting a critical and a lot of high attack rolls), I still didn't kill it. 3.5 Rangers just don't the HP to stand up to more than 1 full round attack, even with Bear's Endurance on. If I had to do it again, I would definitely get frost arrows. Man I wish I had those.
adiaven 01-30-04, 04:23 AM	Thanks for all the replies!! I will probably get another shot in a few levels, so the advice will be used one day. Few comments No access to frost arrows. Cleric in my party, who took Craft Arms and Armor was too low level to make them. No one in the dinky town nearby could make them. No such thing as a potion of Fire Shield (cold). It's a 5th level spell, and potions only go up to 3rd level spells. And I don't have access to any items of Fire Shield either. I thought about using Entangle (if there were plants in his cave) or Stone Spikes, but I looked at my DC vs a dragon's save (ok, I metagamed a little before hand :p) and I decided to go with the extra 16 HP Bear's Endurance gave me. I still think the entry for this prestige class is insane. Altho, that is what makes it a lot fun, doesn't it? I tried argueing with my DM that single handly killing a red dragon means my friends can assist me, I just have to do all the damage. She disagreed. If I had a cleric behind me healing, or anything really, I could have easily won the fight.
Elmaster of Thay 01-30-04, 04:26 AM	Well, if you are rolling for a new character we can help you there... :D Oh, and by the way, from the srd...TUMBLE (DEX; TRAINED ONLY; ARMOR CHECK PENALTY)
adiaven 01-30-04, 04:55 AM	I know, that's why i put the 'heh' in there. I got away with one there, but at that point the DM knew I was dead anyway... And Im hoping I won't have to roll a new character. Im hoping my party goes in there, slaughter's him, and pulls my partially digested body from the stomache.
Neonsamurai 01-30-04, 05:05 AM	You know, if i'd play the dragon you'd be grappled asap. Bye bye little ranger ^^ Honestly, i see no way how you can win 1on1 vs a juvenile red dragon below 11th level without a highly twinked out dragonkiller build. You had some amazing lucky rolls (and amazing unlucky rolls on the dragon's side) which is the only reason why you survived the 1st full attack at all. If you need advise on a new build just feel free to ask, we'll try our best to help you out.
rich2939 01-30-04, 07:19 AM	Even as it was... I think your DM played the dragon down a bit.
Previn 01-30-04, 10:49 AM	Originally posted by rich2939 Even as it was... I think your DM played the dragon down a bit. Yes, that would be in the second round where the dragon only moved 80' of its 150' fly speed, and thus wasted the entire round, rather than flying up and hosing with the breath weapon. It does the same thing on round four, taking double land move to get to with-in 10', when it should have flown and got an attack in. So he had two turns where the dragon basically did nothing.
adiaven 01-30-04, 10:55 AM	as stated before, DM made it so the Dragonw as sleeping in a cave that was too cramped to fly (giving me any advantage she could, really) If I continued to back up, the cavern would have opened up, letting the dragon fly. I also had a small body of water behind me back there too.
Previn 01-30-04, 02:58 PM	Originally posted by adiaven as stated before, DM made it so the Dragonw as sleeping in a cave that was too cramped to fly (giving me any advantage she could, really) If I continued to back up, the cavern would have opened up, letting the dragon fly. I also had a small body of water behind me back there too. Ignoring that dragons sleep in large caves, which is specifically stated in the red dragon entry in the MM, it still had no reason not to run (160' max) up next to you in the second round. You would have gotten no attacks of opportunity, and it get's its full round attack earlier. This would have skipped rounds 3 and 4 completely. So in the '6th' round, when you tried to tumble away untrained, the dragon would have gotten an AoO and killed you. In three rounds.
rich2939 01-30-04, 04:19 PM	Plus, with all of it's bonuses to hit, there's no way (short of a bunch of 1's) that it would have missed you that much.
LordShade 01-30-04, 04:45 PM	Originally posted by rich2939 Even as it was... I think your DM played the dragon down a bit. Still, he fought the good fight and deserves congratulations for that. If a DM intends to allow a PC to take Vassal of B at a reasonable (7-10) level, he basically HAS to cut that player some slack.
AviLazar 01-30-04, 05:32 PM	You may just well die, so you might as well use your prep potions. All of them. Try and get some items that are dragon specific (dragon slaying arrows) if your DM will not give you this, try and get some custom items that will help do Bane type damage on dragons, or give you some kind of hiding sense from dragons. Find a niche in that cave the dragon can't reach, hide in there like a little baby and fire your arrows. The dragon can breath all he wants. If you do not have an area like that just try and stay out of his melee reach. Keep running (potion of expeditious retreat and haste?). Boots of springing and striding. Use your size to your advantage. He is big he is going to have a problem getting to you in a small cave (to him its small). I had a party go toe-to-toe with a dragon, they nearly died (the two wizards teleported the group out). Toe-to-toe you will die fast and hard. God speed, and i look forward to seeing your results! -Avi
adiaven 02-02-04, 02:08 AM	Originally posted by Previn Ignoring that dragons sleep in large caves, which is specifically stated in the red dragon entry in the MM, it still had no reason not to run (160' max) up next to you in the second round. You would have gotten no attacks of opportunity, and it get's its full round attack earlier. This would have skipped rounds 3 and 4 completely. So in the '6th' round, when you tried to tumble away untrained, the dragon would have gotten an AoO and killed you. In three rounds. The cave was quiet large. I had to navigate my way down to his lair, being extremely paranoid the entire time. I climbed down my rope to a large cavern with a pool of water. At one end the cavern narrowed and that is where the sleeping dragon lay. As explained to me by the DM later, this was the only spot in the lair that had an escape exit the dragon could fly up and out of in case it was overwhelmed (by an older dragon or a party of dragon hunters). Instead, it choose to fight the lone ranger attacking it, to my demise. Running was impossible in the cavern. Too many boulders and loose rocks. Trust me, I tried running away when I saw how little damage my bow was doing against it. About living through 1 full round attack. I had 64 HP (from Bear's Endurance), I had a really high AC of 24 (a gift from the DM to make winning improbably, not impossible), and Blur worked. So yea, I got lucky with a roll (either a claw or wing was a 2 or 3) and blur took out the tail swipe. Blur has a 1 in 5 chance of causing a miss, so making 1 miss in a full attack wasn't really a fluke. I think if I spent my money more focused on killing a dragon, and I knew it was comining in this adventure, I might have had a better chance with better equipment. I did make my 2 swords specifically for taking out a red dragon tho...
MegaPlex 02-02-04, 04:37 AM	There is only one way for an 8th level character to kill a CR 10 Dragon: Subterfuge! Here is one way: Key: Any dragon which can be hurt by fire. Items needed: -Bag of Holding -Magic item/Potion of Stone shape -Oil Each pint of Oil costs 1 sp, weighs 1 lb and does either 1d6 damage if ignited directly on a target or 1d3 dmg if poured onto the ground and lit. A 50 pint barrel should drop the cost even more. Tactics: Use divination magic to find a dragon with lair that can be sealed fairly easily. If you can't get that lucky, then do it the hard way. Load bag of holding with enough Oil to kill creature. I'd say 5-6 50 pint barrels of oil should do the trick. If you can't afford or get a bag of holding, have a friendly wizard cast Shrink Item on the casks (this makes the hard way easier) 1) Easy way Seal dragon in lair using stone shape -- be sure to leave hole large enough to pour in oil. Light Oil. If easy way is not possible, try to use sneakyness to accomplish same purpose. 2) Hard way Set up trap and lure dragon in. Sneak into chamber while dragon is out and attach the barrels to the ceiling with rigged rope, etc. If you have been able to use Shrink Item to make them small, you could use slippers of spider climb to position yourself on the ceiling and let the bomb drop. -- The point is, you can figure out devious ways to trap/kill a dragon. Remember, you need to find out everything you can about your target. Once you know, then look for a weakness and exploit it.
Laelenie 02-02-04, 05:52 AM	Originally posted by MegaPlex Each pint of Oil costs 1 sp, weighs 1 lb and does either 1d6 damage if ignited directly on a target or 1d3 dmg if poured onto the ground and lit. A 50 pint barrel should drop the cost even more. Yeah, sure. Fire damage to Red Dragons is what you really need:confused:...
Golem1972 02-02-04, 06:46 AM	Ask your DM if he'll (or she'll) let you have a rematch with the dragon. You could do it as a one off match with no campaign effect, i.e. no matter the outcome your still dead. Or, see if your DM will say that the first match was a vision from your celestial God - dragon as a lesson in what not to do against the dragon. Either way, say that this is your way of learning a way (not the best way, or even the only way) to be a dragon slayer. Changes are mostly minor, and mostly in your equipment. Attributes, try to shift one point from constitution to wisdom. Feats: at this point, you only have 3 feats, so I'd go with Weapon Focus Longbow, Sacred Vow, and either Improved initiative or Weapon Focus (shortsword, scimitar, or whatever weapon you will stick with later). Wait until your 9th level feat (ranger 9) to declare your obediance. Take combat style and improved combat style in archery. This will give you Point Blank Shot, Rapid Shot, and Many Shot. Favored enemy Dragons is good. You may want to take evil outsiders as your second favored enemy. Equipment: Armor - see if you can get that (very wonderful gift) switched from +4 chain to +1 (light) and add silent moves and shadow qualities instead. See if your DM will allow you to transfer the magic properties from this armor to your new DragonHide armor after the battle (if there is an after the battle) with an appropriate gift of dragon horde to your God-dragon. Swords - drop them to plain +1 weapons (perhaps one adamantine and one cold iron). Roll that money into bows and arrows. Bow: +1 Mighty (+5 strength) composite longbow (switch to shortbow if you'd like to try mounted later (possibly with a couple of levels in dragonrider)), Thundering. Arrows: (10) +1, Icy Burst. Get a couple of quivers of regular arrows. Keep 1 Cure Serious, both Cure lights, Darkvision, rope of climbing. Pick up 2 oils of bless weapon, 1 oil of greater magic weapon (+5) You should have about 2800 GP left after the changeover. Tactics, Memorize 3 hunter's mercy (or 2 + 1 scroll if attribute change is not possible). Use Darkvision, Oil of bless weapon, and oil of GMW +5. Sneak close enough to shoot, ready Manyshot. Cast hunters mercy (from scroll first), and fire readied shot (possible surprise round). Manyshot should be Icy Burst arrow as primary, and regular arrow as secondary. First round, cast hunter's mercy and use manyshot. Second round, repeat. Third round, or if dragon closes and melees, pray. Damage: 1d8 + 5 (mighty) + 5 (Greater Magic Weapon) + 4 (Favored enemy) x 3 (critical) + 2d8 (thundering) + 1d6 + 2d10 (Icy Burst) + 53 min / 88 average. Plus, 1d8 + 5 + 5 + 4 = 15 min / 18 average. For 68 min / 106 average (a good couple of rolls could end this battle in the first round). There are better ways to do this, but I tried to stick close to what you already had. Switch to Ranger2 / Fighter 4 / Deep Wood Sniper 2, and it works better. Happy hunting!
Previn 02-02-04, 09:59 AM	Originally posted by adiaven The cave was quiet large. I had to navigate my way down to his lair, being extremely paranoid the entire time. I climbed down my rope to a large cavern with a pool of water. At one end the cavern narrowed and that is where the sleeping dragon lay. As explained to me by the DM later, this was the only spot in the lair that had an escape exit the dragon could fly up and out of in case it was overwhelmed (by an older dragon or a party of dragon hunters). Instead, it choose to fight the lone ranger attacking it, to my demise. Running was impossible in the cavern. Too many boulders and loose rocks. Trust me, I tried running away when I saw how little damage my bow was doing against it. I'm reading mixed signals here. The dragon could fly out of the cave, through the narrow opening, but not through the main section of the cave? I also question any dragon limiting itself to a cave where it's only form of movement is walking. Though I mean nothing against you, but I'm taking offense at the encounter setup at this point.
adiaven 02-02-04, 11:14 AM	The DM was definitely giving me an easy time with the too low to fly part of the cave. Keep in mind this is a juvenile dragon. Not really old enough to kill other dragons and take thier lairs, or take over areas with great lairs. This spot had an escape tunnel to fly up and out of the mountain... and a 30-40 foot ceiling it could walk out of to the main cavern.