Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Shandrakor 08-24-04, 10:23 AM	Howdy! I'm not an expert on monk creation, and after reading the guides, I'm convinced I need help. This is for a game starting at level 12. I'm planning on being an Anthropomorphic Squid Monk with the Saint, Half-Minotaur, and Insectile Templates. I'd like to tack on Feral too, but that might just be silly. I'll have 12 arms from the Squid + Insectile, all tentacles (I think) tipped with hands. Saint is the only one I'm really set on, for all the nifty Immunitites, Fast Healing...well, because it's great. I'd like Insectile so I can get another 12 attacks with Greater TWF. If I'm just the Squid, then I need Half-Minotaur to become Large. If ya'll decide to have me go the Giant Squid route, then we can skip Half-Minotaur and possibly Feral too. I'm open to being an Octopus-man if that'll work out better. Both Squid and Octopus (and their Giant variants) start with nify WIS bonuses. All the templates add to WIS, but does that justify their LAs? Due to the synergistic effect of WIS on the Monk, the Saint, and the Shiba Protector, I'm interested in Maximizing that. We'll be using Flaws and Traits, and Level Buyoff too, though for me it might be quite a challenge. My stats are: 18, 17, 16, 16, 16, 15. I was thinking something like this: 1 Squid Multigrab, Greater Multigrab, Rending Constriction, Flaw: Vulnerable, Flaw: ??? 2 Squid 3 Monk 1 Weapon Focus: Unarmed Strike 4 Monk 2 5 Monk 3 Iron Will 6 Monk 4 Expertise, Dodge 7 Shou Disciple 1 8 Shou Disciple 2 Power Attack 9 Shiba Protector 1 10 Shintao Monk 1-4? I'll use the Ioun Stone to get Alertness to qualify for Shiba Protector, though with so many juicy monk feats I don't know if I should burn 2 just to get WIS to attack and damage. I'd like to tack on a level of Pious Templar for Mettle, and use the spellcasting granted by that to take 1 level of Blade Dancer for extra-speediness. I'd also like to take Extended Reach, so I can grapple even more often. If Circle Kick exists in 3.5, that might be good too. Or the Unbalancing Strike/Falling Star Strike + Expert Tactician combo. For that matter, Choke Hold is required for Empty Hand Mastery, which is even more goodness. 2 Levels of Ninja Spy would get me Improved Evasion, which is always good. I have a serious overabundance of choices here. Can anyone cite me a source for the ability to do monk damage with natural weapons? For that matter, can I do monk damage when I Constrict? Planned Items: Fanged Ring = 10K Sparring Dummy of the Masters = 30K Monk's Belt. = 13K Gloves of Fearsome Grip or Ki Straps, or a slotless Item of both Dark Blue and Iridescent Ioun Stones (for the fish out of water and to get into the Shiba Protector) = 46K Slotless Item of Expansion, always on (augmented to 7 PP to become Gargantuan) = 56K ((Could it be cheaper if the guy who created it used a Torc of Power Preservation? Or if it was made by a Wilder using Wild Surge?)) I'm already over my starting cash of 88K GP, and I don't know what to drop. I'd really appreciate it if ya'll could help me out with a build, the source for monk damage replacing natural attack damage, and which Items I should take. Thanks! Happy Gaming!
mean_liar 08-24-04, 10:34 AM	I don't think its possible to swap monk unarmed damage for natural weapon damage. That said, anything that gives a bonus to your hit and damage overall without regard to source is a good thing. Shiba Protector seems a good idea in this case, but I'm not convinced that a Monk is the best. Improved Multiattack works for a squid, yes?
El_Machinae 08-24-04, 11:01 AM	Get into Kensai QUICK! And then enchant your tentacles to be defending. +12, +24 ... to AC ... wow.
big bear 08-24-04, 11:48 AM	all you need is a magic item that lets you breathe air, since anthro squids are watrer breathers.
Alratan 08-24-04, 12:25 PM	The extra-arms granted by Insectile don't let you make extra attacks...
Sammaster 08-24-04, 12:43 PM	All anthropomorphic animals have humanoid arms and hands, so you'd actually have arms instead of tentacles. They also lose all special attacks that depend on a nonhumanoid shape, so you're going to lose the constrict ability, and (most likely) improved grab. And, as was mentioned, insectile won't grant any extra attacks. There's also the issue that the Shiba Protector has Human (Pheonix clan) as one of the prerequisites to take the PRC.
catharz 08-30-04, 10:09 PM	Anthro Giant squid is generally better, because you actually can do damage with your tentacles. Still just LA+1. Add Feral to that. You gain two claw attacks (keep in mind that you don't loose any tentacles attacks). LA+2 Add Saint. LA+4. If you like, slap on Half-ogre (LA+0, as you're already large). Monks can't combine unarmed attacks and natural weapons, and can't flurry with natural weapons. Apparently natural weapons 'aren't as handy.' But Monk is still good for Wisdom to AC. AGS 3/LA 4/Monk 2/Fighter 2/Shiba protector 1 is a good place to start at. Go for the Improved grapple/Multigrab/Greater multigrab/Rending constriction feat tree, as well as extended reach. You'll have 8 tentacle attacks, two claw attacks, and a bite. Use them well.
Savani 08-30-04, 11:28 PM	your other flaw should be inattentive... -4listen -4 spot... thats nothing to give up for an entire feat... id consider taking shaky -2ranged instead of vulnerable keep your ac if your gonna be into melee for all your attacks anyways...
Endarire 08-31-04, 03:52 AM	From where is the Shiba Protector? I see it not in Magic of Rokugan nor Oriental Adventures. -EE
Shandrakor 08-31-04, 04:59 AM	You'll find it towards the end of OA in the Clans section; IDHMBWM but IIRC it's on page 222.
catharz 08-31-04, 04:59 AM	From where is the Shiba Protector? I see it not in Magic of Rokugan nor Oriental Adventures. -EE Its in Oriental adventures.
Shandrakor 08-31-04, 05:46 AM	Catharz, I'm afraid I'm simply not following. I realize that the Anthro. GS is generally considered better, but wouldn't the size change drop the damage down to 1d4? Imp. NA could up that to 1d6, and the Fanged Ring might (possibly) up that further to 1d8, but wouldn't I be stuck there? A Giant Octopus's tentacles do 1d4, making the Anthro's damage nonexistant, yes? After applying the Feral and Saint Templates to the Giant Octopus, with 'Enlarge Critter' permanencied on it, a Fanged Ring, a Monk's Belt, and the Improved Natural Attack feat, I'm flurrying and Multiweapon Fighting with 8 attacks; 2 @ +19 to hit, 6 @ +14. The damage is (assuming I've calculated it correctly; the SRD lacks tables for Huge, G, and C monks) 4d6 per blow; with 3 adding + 15 damage (flurry) and 5 adding + 12 damage. The 5, being TWF attacks, only get half STR damage but full WIS damage. My stats are 20, 20, 18, 12, 30, 17, after slaying an Aleax. That would of course be for a Giant Octopus 2/Monk 3/Saint +2 LA/Shou Disciple 3/Shiba Protector 1, doing damage as a 10th level monk. I wanted to go the Rending Constriction route as you suggested, but it just didn't seem like I'd be doing enough damage. What am I missing? Happy Gaming!