Anthropomorphic World Champion, or: BAAAANZAAAAI!!!!! [Archive] - Wizards Community

Anthropomorphic World Champion, or: BAAAANZAAAAI!!!!! [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
tsuyoshikentsu
06-20-06, 04:11 AM First off, World Champion is a weapon from Final Fantasy X. I like the visual, and the Final Fantasy reference is sort of a tie-in to the fact that this is basically a lancer build. It gets nowhere near the record on charge attacks, but on the other hand, it's much more well-rounded.

Half-Minotaur Orc Orc Paragon 3/Barbarian 1/Fighter 2/War Hulk 10/X 3

Feats:

01: Power Attack
03: Cleave
F1: Weapon Focus (Spiked Armor)
F2: Weapon Focus (Spiked Shield)
06: Blood-Spiked Charger
09: Snow-Tiger Berserker
12: Two-Weapon Fighting
15: Endurance
18: Steadfast Determination

Sure, your BAB will be +8/+3 at level 20, assuming a BAB +1 class at the end -- but since you'll be pretty much dumping every mental stat, you can afford to put a 17 in STR.

So, here's some math:

17 STR
+8 Racial
+12 Size increase (woohoo!)
+5 Levels
+24 classes (WOOHOO!)
+6 Belt of Giant Strength

=72 STR

When you charge, double your STR mod (+31, I think) and add that to damage. So, 1d8+67, incluing various enhancement bonuses. I'm not absolutely sure, but I think if you have a Spiked or Horned Helmet in there, you can hit with that too -- if not, replace Snow-Tige Berserker with Improved Shield Bash or something.

Now, there are two reasons why I prefer this over the typical lancer. The first is that this thing's AC doesn't end up in the tank so much. You'll be wearing +5 mithral heavy plate and carrying a +5 heavy steel shield -- both with +5 defending spikes. You'll also be fighting defensively all the time past your initial charge. Why?

The second reason: you can make a large attack every round. The third part of BSC allows you to move into your opponent's space and perform a shield bash, doubling your Strength and adding it to damage. This does provoke an AoO, but 1) you'll be fighting defensively, 2) your spikes will be set to AC mode, and 3) if you have a 32 point buy, there's no reason your CON should be below 20 and your Hit Dice are large anyway. Plus, you'll be dealing 2d8 + 175 damage on these attacks. The attack bonus is at +36, though -- but that's still good enough to hit most things. (It'll be at +38 if the second part of BSC went off -- likely if they miss, since the shield is +12's worth of your AC!)

To finish it, you could probably take Berserk or something -- but it's 1:11 AM here and I don't want to figure two sets of equations. (That's an implied invitation to check my math, by the way.) This build suffers the inability to take mental-based skills and just asking for Sunder attempts.

So: thoughts?

EDIT #1: I just realized that Orc is pretty much strictly superior, and I hate half-orcs anyway.

EDIT #2: Thanks for helping me to not look stupid, Surreal. :D
Xeraph
06-20-06, 07:40 AM 2 levels of Psychic Warrior for Expansion and one level of Fighter. Then you will have room for Endurance and Steadfast Determination which gives you a will save worth noting. Oh yeah, and a size increase.

Its Blood Spiked Charger, not Soaked.
DarthDave
06-20-06, 03:21 PM Because the character might fear sunder attempts, why not try a Warforged race, taking the Spiked Body feat?

I agree with Xeraph, and look to add Endurance & Steadfast Determination, so I suggest dropping Cleave. How important is Snow Lodge Berserker to the build (side question: from where is this feat drawn?)? I see the need for 2-Weapon Fighting (Armour & Shield), though. Does having a Spiked Body reduce the need for this feat (although I suspect that having a bristle body doesn't mean one is skilled at using said body as a weapon.)?
PhoenixInferno
06-20-06, 03:30 PM Snow Tiger Berserker (Unapproachable East) gives you Pounce with Light weapons, so its pretty handy, although I think that means you can't use a Heavy Steel Shield - gotta be a Light one, but that's no big deal.

No Leap Attack?
Khazra Reborn
06-20-06, 03:45 PM Urgh...i dont understand the logic behind the warhulk?
If you took fighter levels, cut out human paragon and took only 3 warhulk (so you still get 16BaB) and two more TWF feats you'd have 4 more attacks/charge. 7 attacks and 18 less strength results in 728 damage from str/round (compared to the current 525/round). If you find further bonuses such as say use activated expansion item or the girallions blessing/fuse arms trick, the difference will continue to increase.

Basicly, warshaper absolutely sucks!
tsuyoshikentsu
06-20-06, 04:34 PM 2 levels of Psychic Warrior for Expansion and one level of Fighter. Then you will have room for Endurance and Steadfast Determination which gives you a will save worth noting. Oh yeah, and a size increase.Certainly an option. I'll put in a note about it.
Its Blood Spiked Charger, not Soaked.Ithought I had fixed that. Oh well -- 1:11 AM post. :P Noted and corrected.
Because the character might fear sunder attempts, why not try a Warforged race, taking the Spiked Body feat?Certainly an option -- you'd lose 4 STR from the paragons and a bonus feat, but Fighter 2/Psywar 2/Barbarian 2 would make up for it.
I agree with Xeraph, and look to add Endurance & Steadfast Determination, so I suggest dropping Cleave.Cleave is a prerequisite to War hulk. ;-)
How important is Snow Lodge Berserker to the build (side question: from where is this feat drawn?)?It's from Unapproachable East, and for the purposes of this build it ups your attack count by one.
I see the need for 2-Weapon Fighting (Armour & Shield), though. Does having a Spiked Body reduce the need for this feat (although I suspect that having a bristle body doesn't mean one is skilled at using said body as a weapon.)?Off the top of my head, no.
No Leap Attack?Trust me, I looked there first. Turns out it only multiplies Power Attack damage. I assure you, I'm as disappointed as you are.
Urgh...i dont understand the logic behind the warhulk?
If you took fighter levels, cut out human paragon and took only 3 warhulk (so you still get 16BaB) and two more TWF feats you'd have 4 more attacks/charge. 7 attacks and 18 less strength results in 728 damage from str/round (compared to the current 525/round). If you read Blood-Spiked Charger, you'll notice that the shield attack yoiu'll be using in subsequent rounds is in fact a full attack action to make one attack. As such, it pays to use more War Hulk than anything else. Plus, it'll still work in an antimagic/psionic field and even in dead magic zones -- outside of the items, there's no magic trickery going on here. The majority of this build is based on class levels alone.
Surreal
07-04-06, 10:28 PM I'm confused as to where the huge damage on the charge attacks (spiked avalanche) is coming from. You add twice your strength bonus... which with a 72 Str is 62 extra damage, so 1d8 + 62 + enhancement?
tsuyoshikentsu
07-04-06, 11:47 PM No, no, no. Not twice your Strength bonus -- twice your Strength.

This will probably be errata'd, but I hope not. :D
Surreal
07-05-06, 12:36 AM Just doublechecked... for the Spiked Avalanche manouevre, it's twice your "Str bonus". For the Spiked Slam, it's twice your "Strength".
tsuyoshikentsu
07-05-06, 01:53 AM Hm. You're right.

Oh well, I'll just put in Imrpoved Shield Bash until I think of something better.
Surreal
07-05-06, 02:13 AM Well... in the land of argumentative interpretation, it does say you do "extra damage equal to twice your strength bonus". Since regular damage would be 1d6 + Str, adding on the extra damage gives you 1d6 + 3xStr :D

edit: hmm, can you put spikes on an exotic shield, then pick up uncanny blow from EWM, for a total of 4xStr?

I was toying with the idea of some sort of pouncing build that took advantage of this, but haven't really delved into it.
Zemyla
07-05-06, 07:44 AM I don't know where I read this, but you can take two levels of Warhulk and then take 10 levels of Legacy Champion, which gives you 8/10 levels of "class features". This gives you a +7 BAB over twelve levels, which is better than the +2 you'd normally be getting.
tsuyoshikentsu
07-05-06, 04:50 PM I don't know where I read this, but you can take two levels of Warhulk and then take 10 levels of Legacy Champion, which gives you 8/10 levels of "class features". This gives you a +7 BAB over twelve levels, which is better than the +2 you'd normally be getting.Alas, Legacy Champion requires ranks in Knowledge (History) -- which a War Hulk is treated as having 0 ranks in. :-(

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
tsuyoshikentsu 06-20-06, 04:11 AM	First off, World Champion is a weapon from Final Fantasy X. I like the visual, and the Final Fantasy reference is sort of a tie-in to the fact that this is basically a lancer build. It gets nowhere near the record on charge attacks, but on the other hand, it's much more well-rounded. Half-Minotaur Orc Orc Paragon 3/Barbarian 1/Fighter 2/War Hulk 10/X 3 Feats: 01: Power Attack 03: Cleave F1: Weapon Focus (Spiked Armor) F2: Weapon Focus (Spiked Shield) 06: Blood-Spiked Charger 09: Snow-Tiger Berserker 12: Two-Weapon Fighting 15: Endurance 18: Steadfast Determination Sure, your BAB will be +8/+3 at level 20, assuming a BAB +1 class at the end -- but since you'll be pretty much dumping every mental stat, you can afford to put a 17 in STR. So, here's some math: 17 STR +8 Racial +12 Size increase (woohoo!) +5 Levels +24 classes (WOOHOO!) +6 Belt of Giant Strength =72 STR When you charge, double your STR mod (+31, I think) and add that to damage. So, 1d8+67, incluing various enhancement bonuses. I'm not absolutely sure, but I think if you have a Spiked or Horned Helmet in there, you can hit with that too -- if not, replace Snow-Tige Berserker with Improved Shield Bash or something. Now, there are two reasons why I prefer this over the typical lancer. The first is that this thing's AC doesn't end up in the tank so much. You'll be wearing +5 mithral heavy plate and carrying a +5 heavy steel shield -- both with +5 defending spikes. You'll also be fighting defensively all the time past your initial charge. Why? The second reason: you can make a large attack every round. The third part of BSC allows you to move into your opponent's space and perform a shield bash, doubling your Strength and adding it to damage. This does provoke an AoO, but 1) you'll be fighting defensively, 2) your spikes will be set to AC mode, and 3) if you have a 32 point buy, there's no reason your CON should be below 20 and your Hit Dice are large anyway. Plus, you'll be dealing 2d8 + 175 damage on these attacks. The attack bonus is at +36, though -- but that's still good enough to hit most things. (It'll be at +38 if the second part of BSC went off -- likely if they miss, since the shield is +12's worth of your AC!) To finish it, you could probably take Berserk or something -- but it's 1:11 AM here and I don't want to figure two sets of equations. (That's an implied invitation to check my math, by the way.) This build suffers the inability to take mental-based skills and just asking for Sunder attempts. So: thoughts? EDIT #1: I just realized that Orc is pretty much strictly superior, and I hate half-orcs anyway. EDIT #2: Thanks for helping me to not look stupid, Surreal. :D
Xeraph 06-20-06, 07:40 AM	2 levels of Psychic Warrior for Expansion and one level of Fighter. Then you will have room for Endurance and Steadfast Determination which gives you a will save worth noting. Oh yeah, and a size increase. Its Blood Spiked Charger, not Soaked.
DarthDave 06-20-06, 03:21 PM	Because the character might fear sunder attempts, why not try a Warforged race, taking the Spiked Body feat? I agree with Xeraph, and look to add Endurance & Steadfast Determination, so I suggest dropping Cleave. How important is Snow Lodge Berserker to the build (side question: from where is this feat drawn?)? I see the need for 2-Weapon Fighting (Armour & Shield), though. Does having a Spiked Body reduce the need for this feat (although I suspect that having a bristle body doesn't mean one is skilled at using said body as a weapon.)?
PhoenixInferno 06-20-06, 03:30 PM	Snow Tiger Berserker (Unapproachable East) gives you Pounce with Light weapons, so its pretty handy, although I think that means you can't use a Heavy Steel Shield - gotta be a Light one, but that's no big deal. No Leap Attack?
Khazra Reborn 06-20-06, 03:45 PM	Urgh...i dont understand the logic behind the warhulk? If you took fighter levels, cut out human paragon and took only 3 warhulk (so you still get 16BaB) and two more TWF feats you'd have 4 more attacks/charge. 7 attacks and 18 less strength results in 728 damage from str/round (compared to the current 525/round). If you find further bonuses such as say use activated expansion item or the girallions blessing/fuse arms trick, the difference will continue to increase. Basicly, warshaper absolutely sucks!
tsuyoshikentsu 06-20-06, 04:34 PM	2 levels of Psychic Warrior for Expansion and one level of Fighter. Then you will have room for Endurance and Steadfast Determination which gives you a will save worth noting. Oh yeah, and a size increase.Certainly an option. I'll put in a note about it. Its Blood Spiked Charger, not Soaked.Ithought I had fixed that. Oh well -- 1:11 AM post. :P Noted and corrected. Because the character might fear sunder attempts, why not try a Warforged race, taking the Spiked Body feat?Certainly an option -- you'd lose 4 STR from the paragons and a bonus feat, but Fighter 2/Psywar 2/Barbarian 2 would make up for it. I agree with Xeraph, and look to add Endurance & Steadfast Determination, so I suggest dropping Cleave.Cleave is a prerequisite to War hulk. ;-) How important is Snow Lodge Berserker to the build (side question: from where is this feat drawn?)?It's from Unapproachable East, and for the purposes of this build it ups your attack count by one. I see the need for 2-Weapon Fighting (Armour & Shield), though. Does having a Spiked Body reduce the need for this feat (although I suspect that having a bristle body doesn't mean one is skilled at using said body as a weapon.)?Off the top of my head, no. No Leap Attack?Trust me, I looked there first. Turns out it only multiplies Power Attack damage. I assure you, I'm as disappointed as you are. Urgh...i dont understand the logic behind the warhulk? If you took fighter levels, cut out human paragon and took only 3 warhulk (so you still get 16BaB) and two more TWF feats you'd have 4 more attacks/charge. 7 attacks and 18 less strength results in 728 damage from str/round (compared to the current 525/round). If you read Blood-Spiked Charger, you'll notice that the shield attack yoiu'll be using in subsequent rounds is in fact a full attack action to make one attack. As such, it pays to use more War Hulk than anything else. Plus, it'll still work in an antimagic/psionic field and even in dead magic zones -- outside of the items, there's no magic trickery going on here. The majority of this build is based on class levels alone.
Surreal 07-04-06, 10:28 PM	I'm confused as to where the huge damage on the charge attacks (spiked avalanche) is coming from. You add twice your strength bonus... which with a 72 Str is 62 extra damage, so 1d8 + 62 + enhancement?
tsuyoshikentsu 07-04-06, 11:47 PM	No, no, no. Not twice your Strength bonus -- twice your Strength. This will probably be errata'd, but I hope not. :D
Surreal 07-05-06, 12:36 AM	Just doublechecked... for the Spiked Avalanche manouevre, it's twice your "Str bonus". For the Spiked Slam, it's twice your "Strength".
tsuyoshikentsu 07-05-06, 01:53 AM	Hm. You're right. Oh well, I'll just put in Imrpoved Shield Bash until I think of something better.
Surreal 07-05-06, 02:13 AM	Well... in the land of argumentative interpretation, it does say you do "extra damage equal to twice your strength bonus". Since regular damage would be 1d6 + Str, adding on the extra damage gives you 1d6 + 3xStr :D edit: hmm, can you put spikes on an exotic shield, then pick up uncanny blow from EWM, for a total of 4xStr? I was toying with the idea of some sort of pouncing build that took advantage of this, but haven't really delved into it.
Zemyla 07-05-06, 07:44 AM	I don't know where I read this, but you can take two levels of Warhulk and then take 10 levels of Legacy Champion, which gives you 8/10 levels of "class features". This gives you a +7 BAB over twelve levels, which is better than the +2 you'd normally be getting.
tsuyoshikentsu 07-05-06, 04:50 PM	I don't know where I read this, but you can take two levels of Warhulk and then take 10 levels of Legacy Champion, which gives you 8/10 levels of "class features". This gives you a +7 BAB over twelve levels, which is better than the +2 you'd normally be getting.Alas, Legacy Champion requires ranks in Knowledge (History) -- which a War Hulk is treated as having 0 ranks in. :-(