Antimagic Barbarian [Archive] - Wizards Community

Antimagic Barbarian [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Nezkrul
03-12-06, 03:24 AM I was playing a straight barbarian until we hit 27th level and the psion in the party asked me if there was anything in my past that I'd like to change, upto and including everything to this point in time. I said yes much, so he used this history eraser / rewriter power on me and I turned into the most fun barbarian I've ever played, and here's the build (please hold the laughs)

13 Barbarian / 13 Wizard / 1 Archmage

High Arcana power: Mastery of Shaping
27th level epic feat: Permanent Emanation - Antimagic Field (apply mastery of shaping to it to not include my 5' cube)

75% of my wizard spells are very good close range or single target buffs/combat spells, and the other 25% are utilitarian.

The Monk player in my party started screaming shenanigans everytime I'd "help" him beat down a bad guy, as he finds most of his supernatural and magic abilities cease to function; and the warmage absolutely hates it when im near his artillery target.

Now some of you will undoubtely say when I swing my weapon at a target, they are technically within 5' of me and not in an antimagic field, but see thats using a houserule, because the RAW say I attack you in your square from my square and magical effects don't move with the attack. Now, add on to this the fact that I had acquired an Adamantine Souldrinker Great Axe +5 (ELH) prior to making this change (with a dm house rule that I take 1d6 nonlethal damage for each negative level i bestow, rather than gaining temporary hp).

My DM sighed, double and triple checked all my math and feats, spells, levels, everything, sighed again, and said "ok, its using all legal rules, and you guys already fought against stuff that used antimagic field, so yes the power works for those choices"

And since that time a few weeks ago, I've managed incredible feats of combat prowess against superiorly magicked foes, who frowned when they came within the reach of my axe :)
PhoenixInferno
03-12-06, 03:35 AM So what you're trying to say is that the real crux of your characters "unbelievable" power is from a DM house rule? What exactly is it you're looking for?
runestar
03-12-06, 03:51 AM I would like to why no foe has yet spammed disjunction against you? :rolleyes:
HaikenEdge
03-12-06, 12:02 PM I would like to know why no foes has used an antimagic field against you. They cancel each other out, ya know.
hork
03-12-06, 12:11 PM A bunch of house rules going on here. Also, you're in the emanation...even you are without magic stuff...
lostone
03-12-06, 12:14 PM I'd like to know how you're pulling off Permanent Emanation when it looks to me like you shouldn't have more than 23 ranks in Spellcraft with that build. Unless I did my math wrong.
Blade2718
03-12-06, 12:16 PM When you swing your weapon, it becomes nonmagical. And God forbid you should try to grapple someone- suddenly they're as buffed as you are.

By the way, this would have been just as achievable with Runescarred Berserker, a PrC from Unapproachable East.

[EDIT]
Oh, wait...no shaping. Nevermind.
hork
03-12-06, 12:25 PM regardless, you are in the emanation. The spell doesn't say that the caster's magic continues to function. Since the caster is in the emanation all magic is gone...no healing, no magic weapons, no magic soup ups, etc.
Blade2718
03-12-06, 12:37 PM regardless, you are in the emanation. The spell doesn't say that the caster's magic continues to function. Since the caster is in the emanation all magic is gone...no healing, no magic weapons, no magic soup ups, etc.

13 Barbarian / 13 Wizard / 1 Archmage

High Arcana power: Mastery of Shaping
27th level epic feat: Permanent Emanation - Antimagic Field (apply mastery of shaping to it to not include my 5' cube)Literacy is good for you.

Extraordinary Spell Aim and Initiate of Mystra allow you to do similar things.
hork
03-12-06, 12:43 PM DOH! I thought a dragon that had antimagic field was bad enough, now let him shape it to not include himself...ack...that is bad stuff.
Prominence
03-12-06, 12:48 PM disjunction, conjuration spells, initiate of mystra, big monsters with grapple, frenzied berserkers, anything that shoots arrows (as the arrow hits you it'll regain its magic...), tiny creatures that can fight in your square.... there's several weaknesses. A lucky pseudodragon could always poison you and send you to sleep^^
PhaedrusXY
03-12-06, 01:17 PM Wow. Alot of naysayers and armchair critics in this thread. Glad you're having fun with your character. It looks pretty legal to me. I've certainly seen people talk about doing the same thing on here with AMF and Mastery of Shaping. There are probably more optimized ways of doing it if you throw in a bunch of splat books, but your build is entirely core. Bravo. :clap: I'd like to know how you're pulling off Permanent Emanation when it looks to me like you shouldn't have more than 23 ranks in Spellcraft with that build. Unless I did my math wrong.He is a 27th level character, and Spellcraft is a class skill for one of his classes. So his max ranks are 30. What are you talking about?
lostone
03-12-06, 01:27 PM He is a 27th level character, and Spellcraft is a class skill for one of his classes. So his max ranks are 30. What are you talking about? :doh: I'm mixing up one of our house rules with the RAW again. Sorry. We track class skills seperately, so the max he could get in spellcraft in our game is 23, 6 ranks for cross-class barbarian and 17 ranks for his 14 levels of spellcaster. (it's been one of those days, I'm sick :surrender)
Nezkrul
03-13-06, 02:46 AM I was looking for optimization feedback, for the future, what can I do to make him better? His experiences have led him to dislike enemy spell casters because on more than one occasion he was dominated by the enemy and had to attack his friends, but now that I've got this anti magical barrier around me, they can't fling those dominate spells at me. And yes, the dm used a reaping mauler / barbarian troll against me and I got pwnd, because even I have my weaknesses.
Nezkrul
03-13-06, 02:52 AM disjunction, conjuration spells, initiate of mystra, big monsters with grapple, frenzied berserkers, anything that shoots arrows (as the arrow hits you it'll regain its magic...), tiny creatures that can fight in your square.... there's several weaknesses. A lucky pseudodragon could always poison you and send you to sleep^^

I tried to pick spells that could counter most of those weaknesses for my spells known (including protection from arrows, windwall, freedom of movement, repulsion (if I memorize antimagic field I can cast it again and mastery of shape it to my 10' cube, making this spell very good), and lots of combat spells to stop things that may not be a good idea to melee with; after all for a free action I can turn off my emanation, cast my spell, free action turn it back on.
runestar
03-13-06, 04:02 AM I think a dragon is actually larger than the diameter of the AMF, so it won't really offer too much protection since parts of him will be sticking out like sore thumbs. A widened AMF, however... :)
Endar45
03-13-06, 05:01 AM Aside from the anti-synergy with your magically inclined party members, that sounds most amusing to me. A common gish tactic is using magic to augment his combat viability verseus pure fighters and using magical counters (including antimagic) to fight pure spellcasters using their martial prowess alone.

@lostone
My DM's do the same thing with skills, so I know the feeling. It's occasionally trying to undo the little quirks DM's apply to builds when posting them to the CO boards without missing something somewhere.
dougemes
03-13-06, 11:45 AM [snip]
Now some of you will undoubtely say when I swing my weapon at a target, they are technically within 5' of me and not in an antimagic field, but see thats using a houserule, because the RAW say I attack you in your square from my square and magical effects don't move with the attack.
[snip]

No, by the RAW, when you swing your weapon it is in the area 5' from
your body, and thus inside the AMF. It ceases to exert its magic, just
like a summoned creature would wink out when it crossed the AMF fields
plane. It has nothing to do with "magical effects don't move with the
attack" because its not a magical effect. Ignore your AMF for a moment
and consider what happens when you attack something else that has an
AMF up. Does your weapon continue to "exert its magical properties"
in its field? Nope. Ergo, it doesnt inside yours as well (outside of your
square).
Grey_Wulf
03-14-06, 09:29 AM Here's an idea: Have the psion manifest psychic reformation again on you then pick Extraordinary Spell Aim (feat, Complete Adventurer). It's better than the Archmage's Mastery of Shaping since ESA specifically states that you are not affected by whatever you cast with it. Extraordinarily Aim the antimagic field to not include you. Now, regardless of how close the opponent is, he's affected by the field and you are not (yes, even while grappling). Grab a Starmantle Cloak or get access to starmantle spell (both from Book of Exalted Deeds) so all physical attacks at you blink out of existence (yes, including natural weapons). Grab a Rod of Absorption and always lug it around 'coz Conjurations with instantaneous durations (such as the Orbs from Complete Arcane and the Crystal Shard from Expanded Psionics Handbook) still go through the field, so the Rod will come in handy.

Mordenkainen's Disjunction will work, but it only suppresses the field as it is already a Permanent Emanation. And of course, if the DM decides to put you up with your mirror-image, you're gonna take the whole day to resolve the battle. :)
Prominence
03-14-06, 09:55 AM I was looking for optimization feedback, for the future, what can I do to make him better? His experiences have led him to dislike enemy spell casters because on more than one occasion he was dominated by the enemy and had to attack his friends, but now that I've got this anti magical barrier around me, they can't fling those dominate spells at me. And yes, the dm used a reaping mauler / barbarian troll against me and I got pwnd, because even I have my weaknesses.
Well, pointing out what might beat you easily should give you an idea of what you have to plan against.

That said, your AMF shouldn't stop domination... you are not in your antimagic field, so the spell should work normally. If you're saying it stops LoS spells, the conjurations still get through so the enemy caster should still have LoS.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Nezkrul 03-12-06, 03:24 AM	I was playing a straight barbarian until we hit 27th level and the psion in the party asked me if there was anything in my past that I'd like to change, upto and including everything to this point in time. I said yes much, so he used this history eraser / rewriter power on me and I turned into the most fun barbarian I've ever played, and here's the build (please hold the laughs) 13 Barbarian / 13 Wizard / 1 Archmage High Arcana power: Mastery of Shaping 27th level epic feat: Permanent Emanation - Antimagic Field (apply mastery of shaping to it to not include my 5' cube) 75% of my wizard spells are very good close range or single target buffs/combat spells, and the other 25% are utilitarian. The Monk player in my party started screaming shenanigans everytime I'd "help" him beat down a bad guy, as he finds most of his supernatural and magic abilities cease to function; and the warmage absolutely hates it when im near his artillery target. Now some of you will undoubtely say when I swing my weapon at a target, they are technically within 5' of me and not in an antimagic field, but see thats using a houserule, because the RAW say I attack you in your square from my square and magical effects don't move with the attack. Now, add on to this the fact that I had acquired an Adamantine Souldrinker Great Axe +5 (ELH) prior to making this change (with a dm house rule that I take 1d6 nonlethal damage for each negative level i bestow, rather than gaining temporary hp). My DM sighed, double and triple checked all my math and feats, spells, levels, everything, sighed again, and said "ok, its using all legal rules, and you guys already fought against stuff that used antimagic field, so yes the power works for those choices" And since that time a few weeks ago, I've managed incredible feats of combat prowess against superiorly magicked foes, who frowned when they came within the reach of my axe :)
PhoenixInferno 03-12-06, 03:35 AM	So what you're trying to say is that the real crux of your characters "unbelievable" power is from a DM house rule? What exactly is it you're looking for?
runestar 03-12-06, 03:51 AM	I would like to why no foe has yet spammed disjunction against you? :rolleyes:
HaikenEdge 03-12-06, 12:02 PM	I would like to know why no foes has used an antimagic field against you. They cancel each other out, ya know.
hork 03-12-06, 12:11 PM	A bunch of house rules going on here. Also, you're in the emanation...even you are without magic stuff...
lostone 03-12-06, 12:14 PM	I'd like to know how you're pulling off Permanent Emanation when it looks to me like you shouldn't have more than 23 ranks in Spellcraft with that build. Unless I did my math wrong.
Blade2718 03-12-06, 12:16 PM	When you swing your weapon, it becomes nonmagical. And God forbid you should try to grapple someone- suddenly they're as buffed as you are. By the way, this would have been just as achievable with Runescarred Berserker, a PrC from Unapproachable East. [EDIT] Oh, wait...no shaping. Nevermind.
hork 03-12-06, 12:25 PM	regardless, you are in the emanation. The spell doesn't say that the caster's magic continues to function. Since the caster is in the emanation all magic is gone...no healing, no magic weapons, no magic soup ups, etc.
Blade2718 03-12-06, 12:37 PM	regardless, you are in the emanation. The spell doesn't say that the caster's magic continues to function. Since the caster is in the emanation all magic is gone...no healing, no magic weapons, no magic soup ups, etc. 13 Barbarian / 13 Wizard / 1 Archmage High Arcana power: Mastery of Shaping 27th level epic feat: Permanent Emanation - Antimagic Field (apply mastery of shaping to it to not include my 5' cube)Literacy is good for you. Extraordinary Spell Aim and Initiate of Mystra allow you to do similar things.
hork 03-12-06, 12:43 PM	DOH! I thought a dragon that had antimagic field was bad enough, now let him shape it to not include himself...ack...that is bad stuff.
Prominence 03-12-06, 12:48 PM	disjunction, conjuration spells, initiate of mystra, big monsters with grapple, frenzied berserkers, anything that shoots arrows (as the arrow hits you it'll regain its magic...), tiny creatures that can fight in your square.... there's several weaknesses. A lucky pseudodragon could always poison you and send you to sleep^^
PhaedrusXY 03-12-06, 01:17 PM	Wow. Alot of naysayers and armchair critics in this thread. Glad you're having fun with your character. It looks pretty legal to me. I've certainly seen people talk about doing the same thing on here with AMF and Mastery of Shaping. There are probably more optimized ways of doing it if you throw in a bunch of splat books, but your build is entirely core. Bravo. :clap: I'd like to know how you're pulling off Permanent Emanation when it looks to me like you shouldn't have more than 23 ranks in Spellcraft with that build. Unless I did my math wrong.He is a 27th level character, and Spellcraft is a class skill for one of his classes. So his max ranks are 30. What are you talking about?
lostone 03-12-06, 01:27 PM	He is a 27th level character, and Spellcraft is a class skill for one of his classes. So his max ranks are 30. What are you talking about? :doh: I'm mixing up one of our house rules with the RAW again. Sorry. We track class skills seperately, so the max he could get in spellcraft in our game is 23, 6 ranks for cross-class barbarian and 17 ranks for his 14 levels of spellcaster. (it's been one of those days, I'm sick :surrender)
Nezkrul 03-13-06, 02:46 AM	I was looking for optimization feedback, for the future, what can I do to make him better? His experiences have led him to dislike enemy spell casters because on more than one occasion he was dominated by the enemy and had to attack his friends, but now that I've got this anti magical barrier around me, they can't fling those dominate spells at me. And yes, the dm used a reaping mauler / barbarian troll against me and I got pwnd, because even I have my weaknesses.
Nezkrul 03-13-06, 02:52 AM	disjunction, conjuration spells, initiate of mystra, big monsters with grapple, frenzied berserkers, anything that shoots arrows (as the arrow hits you it'll regain its magic...), tiny creatures that can fight in your square.... there's several weaknesses. A lucky pseudodragon could always poison you and send you to sleep^^ I tried to pick spells that could counter most of those weaknesses for my spells known (including protection from arrows, windwall, freedom of movement, repulsion (if I memorize antimagic field I can cast it again and mastery of shape it to my 10' cube, making this spell very good), and lots of combat spells to stop things that may not be a good idea to melee with; after all for a free action I can turn off my emanation, cast my spell, free action turn it back on.
runestar 03-13-06, 04:02 AM	I think a dragon is actually larger than the diameter of the AMF, so it won't really offer too much protection since parts of him will be sticking out like sore thumbs. A widened AMF, however... :)
Endar45 03-13-06, 05:01 AM	Aside from the anti-synergy with your magically inclined party members, that sounds most amusing to me. A common gish tactic is using magic to augment his combat viability verseus pure fighters and using magical counters (including antimagic) to fight pure spellcasters using their martial prowess alone. @lostone My DM's do the same thing with skills, so I know the feeling. It's occasionally trying to undo the little quirks DM's apply to builds when posting them to the CO boards without missing something somewhere.
dougemes 03-13-06, 11:45 AM	[snip] Now some of you will undoubtely say when I swing my weapon at a target, they are technically within 5' of me and not in an antimagic field, but see thats using a houserule, because the RAW say I attack you in your square from my square and magical effects don't move with the attack. [snip] No, by the RAW, when you swing your weapon it is in the area 5' from your body, and thus inside the AMF. It ceases to exert its magic, just like a summoned creature would wink out when it crossed the AMF fields plane. It has nothing to do with "magical effects don't move with the attack" because its not a magical effect. Ignore your AMF for a moment and consider what happens when you attack something else that has an AMF up. Does your weapon continue to "exert its magical properties" in its field? Nope. Ergo, it doesnt inside yours as well (outside of your square).
Grey_Wulf 03-14-06, 09:29 AM	Here's an idea: Have the psion manifest psychic reformation again on you then pick Extraordinary Spell Aim (feat, Complete Adventurer). It's better than the Archmage's Mastery of Shaping since ESA specifically states that you are not affected by whatever you cast with it. Extraordinarily Aim the antimagic field to not include you. Now, regardless of how close the opponent is, he's affected by the field and you are not (yes, even while grappling). Grab a Starmantle Cloak or get access to starmantle spell (both from Book of Exalted Deeds) so all physical attacks at you blink out of existence (yes, including natural weapons). Grab a Rod of Absorption and always lug it around 'coz Conjurations with instantaneous durations (such as the Orbs from Complete Arcane and the Crystal Shard from Expanded Psionics Handbook) still go through the field, so the Rod will come in handy. Mordenkainen's Disjunction will work, but it only suppresses the field as it is already a Permanent Emanation. And of course, if the DM decides to put you up with your mirror-image, you're gonna take the whole day to resolve the battle. :)
Prominence 03-14-06, 09:55 AM	I was looking for optimization feedback, for the future, what can I do to make him better? His experiences have led him to dislike enemy spell casters because on more than one occasion he was dominated by the enemy and had to attack his friends, but now that I've got this anti magical barrier around me, they can't fling those dominate spells at me. And yes, the dm used a reaping mauler / barbarian troll against me and I got pwnd, because even I have my weaknesses. Well, pointing out what might beat you easily should give you an idea of what you have to plan against. That said, your AMF shouldn't stop domination... you are not in your antimagic field, so the spell should work normally. If you're saying it stops LoS spells, the conjurations still get through so the enemy caster should still have LoS.