Any 1-level dip that could net my Rogue the following... [Archive] - Wizards Community

Any 1-level dip that could net my Rogue the following... [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Pallin Rahl
03-30-05, 02:23 AM Looking for a 1-level dip that could net my Rogue the following (note: I know there is a good chance it is NOT possible):

+1 BAB
A decent skill point increase (i.e. NOT the "fighter" standard 2 + Int Bonus)
A Bonus Feat (that could be spent on Combat Reflexes).

...any 1-level dip that could have all 3 of those?

Fighter 1 covers the +1 BAB and the Bonus Feat... but man that 2 + Int Bonus skill point progression is painful hehe

Any options? :)
PhaedrusXY
03-30-05, 02:25 AM Not that I know of...

The Rokugan Ninja gets Dodge (which I remember your build having), +1 BAB, +1d6 SA dice, and 4 skill points at first level. If you can use that, it's probably your best bet.
Purpledragonfire
03-30-05, 02:26 AM ranger +1 BAB ,6+int skills and free track feat
Pallin Rahl
03-30-05, 02:34 AM Have no use for Track ;) ...need Combat Reflexes for a pre-req to a PrC I'm considering for a 1-level dip :D

...oh well, will have to debate Fighter or nothing, then... but man those skill pts hurt :p
gabrion
03-30-05, 03:21 AM Thrall of Demogorgon. ;)

(btw, this should be humorous, and in all reality I think fighter is what you'll have to end up taking)
UMiskatonic
03-30-05, 12:04 PM 2 levels of monk might do it.

You get +1 Bab overall, +3 to all saves, 2d8 hit dice, 8+2INT skill points from the monk list, and three feats, one of which can be combat reflexes.

I did this with my rogue 6/ranger 1/monk 2/shadowdancer 2, and it's working quite well.
RogerWilco
03-30-05, 12:34 PM what feats do you have?
Pallin Rahl
03-30-05, 01:27 PM what feats do you have?

Don't have my character on me... but let's see if I can remember...
I know I have 7 normal feats + 3 epic...

Normal Feats:

Combat Expertise (pre-req for Improved Feint)
Improved Feint
Dodge
Mobility
Spring Attack
Improved Crit
Great Fortitude (pre-req for Void Incarnate ...but can't complain)

Epic Feats:

Dexterous Will (pre-req for Void Incarnate ...and darn nice to boot heh)
Epic Dodge
Lingering Damage

...believe that's what I have, feat-wise. :)
(note: He's a Halfling, so don't suggest "be a human for the free feat" hehe :p )
Skulan
03-30-05, 02:06 PM Someone's bound to say Strongheart halfling, then, for the free feat.

Swashbuckler's another almost-fit, as you get decent skills, +1 bab, and weapon finesse for free. Not quite there, but I like it better than fighter.

-Skulan
Pallin Rahl
03-30-05, 02:12 PM Crud... don't have my books on me... could you tell me precisely what a 1-level dip into Swashbuckler gives?

If it's just:

+1 BAB
Probably a bit of Fort or Reflex Save
Weapon Finesse

...then it can't help me get Combat Reflexes to help qualify for Shadowdancer... one of the main reasons I'd be dipping :p

Out of curiosity, though, what kind of skill point progression do Swashbucklers have? :)

Swashbuckler is one of the new base classes (i.e. not a PrC) from the Complete books, right? :)
youspoonybard
03-30-05, 02:16 PM Complete warrior.

Off the top of my head, +2 fort, weapon finesse, 4+int skill points. +1 BAB.

Curious. Is Improved Critical a requirement for anything you're going for? I didn't think sneak-attack fighters benefitted much from that feat, especially without keen stacking.
Pallin Rahl
03-30-05, 02:30 PM No... no specific need of the Improved Crit Feat... just nice to have, as I could have an increased crit rate when using non-Keen weapons (allowing the weapons to have other useful abilities other than Keen).

It's one feat I'm not married to, however. :)

I suppose I could just drop it for Combat Reflexes and then not "need" the bonus feat from the 1-level dip (basically, I'm just finding level 20, for a Rogue, to be a bit of a dead-end... Rogue 19 is useful for the extra Rogue Ability... Rogue 20 just seems a bit of a waste). :)
youspoonybard
03-30-05, 02:35 PM You are a strength-based combat rogue?
Pallin Rahl
03-30-05, 02:44 PM I wouldn't say that specifically...

...but at the Epic Level of 27 (for the epic mini adventurer theis character is being advance for) his STR and DEX are not that far off, considering my current +str and +dex gear.

Weapon Finesse would increase his attack bonus a bit... just not a ton.

If I drop Improved Crit (as I may, now that it was brought-up), I very well might take Combat Reflexes in its stead.... and then take a 1-level dip into Swashbuckler (getting, as was mentioned, Weapon Finesse in the process). :)
youspoonybard
03-30-05, 02:52 PM That's what I was going to suggest : )

Just wondering if Weapon Finesse would be worth it to you, and how valuable Improved Crit was (since of course the strength damage is multiplied, but not the SA damage).
Pallin Rahl
03-30-05, 02:55 PM With my gear, my Str is in the low-mid 20s. :)

My Dex, with gear, is in the mid-high 20s. :D

(forget exact stats... and sheet not on me hehe)

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Pallin Rahl 03-30-05, 02:23 AM	Looking for a 1-level dip that could net my Rogue the following (note: I know there is a good chance it is NOT possible): +1 BAB A decent skill point increase (i.e. NOT the "fighter" standard 2 + Int Bonus) A Bonus Feat (that could be spent on Combat Reflexes). ...any 1-level dip that could have all 3 of those? Fighter 1 covers the +1 BAB and the Bonus Feat... but man that 2 + Int Bonus skill point progression is painful hehe Any options? :)
PhaedrusXY 03-30-05, 02:25 AM	Not that I know of... The Rokugan Ninja gets Dodge (which I remember your build having), +1 BAB, +1d6 SA dice, and 4 skill points at first level. If you can use that, it's probably your best bet.
Purpledragonfire 03-30-05, 02:26 AM	ranger +1 BAB ,6+int skills and free track feat
Pallin Rahl 03-30-05, 02:34 AM	Have no use for Track ;) ...need Combat Reflexes for a pre-req to a PrC I'm considering for a 1-level dip :D ...oh well, will have to debate Fighter or nothing, then... but man those skill pts hurt :p
gabrion 03-30-05, 03:21 AM	Thrall of Demogorgon. ;) (btw, this should be humorous, and in all reality I think fighter is what you'll have to end up taking)
UMiskatonic 03-30-05, 12:04 PM	2 levels of monk might do it. You get +1 Bab overall, +3 to all saves, 2d8 hit dice, 8+2INT skill points from the monk list, and three feats, one of which can be combat reflexes. I did this with my rogue 6/ranger 1/monk 2/shadowdancer 2, and it's working quite well.
RogerWilco 03-30-05, 12:34 PM	what feats do you have?
Pallin Rahl 03-30-05, 01:27 PM	what feats do you have? Don't have my character on me... but let's see if I can remember... I know I have 7 normal feats + 3 epic... Normal Feats: Combat Expertise (pre-req for Improved Feint) Improved Feint Dodge Mobility Spring Attack Improved Crit Great Fortitude (pre-req for Void Incarnate ...but can't complain) Epic Feats: Dexterous Will (pre-req for Void Incarnate ...and darn nice to boot heh) Epic Dodge Lingering Damage ...believe that's what I have, feat-wise. :) (note: He's a Halfling, so don't suggest "be a human for the free feat" hehe :p )
Skulan 03-30-05, 02:06 PM	Someone's bound to say Strongheart halfling, then, for the free feat. Swashbuckler's another almost-fit, as you get decent skills, +1 bab, and weapon finesse for free. Not quite there, but I like it better than fighter. -Skulan
Pallin Rahl 03-30-05, 02:12 PM	Crud... don't have my books on me... could you tell me precisely what a 1-level dip into Swashbuckler gives? If it's just: +1 BAB Probably a bit of Fort or Reflex Save Weapon Finesse ...then it can't help me get Combat Reflexes to help qualify for Shadowdancer... one of the main reasons I'd be dipping :p Out of curiosity, though, what kind of skill point progression do Swashbucklers have? :) Swashbuckler is one of the new base classes (i.e. not a PrC) from the Complete books, right? :)
youspoonybard 03-30-05, 02:16 PM	Complete warrior. Off the top of my head, +2 fort, weapon finesse, 4+int skill points. +1 BAB. Curious. Is Improved Critical a requirement for anything you're going for? I didn't think sneak-attack fighters benefitted much from that feat, especially without keen stacking.
Pallin Rahl 03-30-05, 02:30 PM	No... no specific need of the Improved Crit Feat... just nice to have, as I could have an increased crit rate when using non-Keen weapons (allowing the weapons to have other useful abilities other than Keen). It's one feat I'm not married to, however. :) I suppose I could just drop it for Combat Reflexes and then not "need" the bonus feat from the 1-level dip (basically, I'm just finding level 20, for a Rogue, to be a bit of a dead-end... Rogue 19 is useful for the extra Rogue Ability... Rogue 20 just seems a bit of a waste). :)
youspoonybard 03-30-05, 02:35 PM	You are a strength-based combat rogue?
Pallin Rahl 03-30-05, 02:44 PM	I wouldn't say that specifically... ...but at the Epic Level of 27 (for the epic mini adventurer theis character is being advance for) his STR and DEX are not that far off, considering my current +str and +dex gear. Weapon Finesse would increase his attack bonus a bit... just not a ton. If I drop Improved Crit (as I may, now that it was brought-up), I very well might take Combat Reflexes in its stead.... and then take a 1-level dip into Swashbuckler (getting, as was mentioned, Weapon Finesse in the process). :)
youspoonybard 03-30-05, 02:52 PM	That's what I was going to suggest : ) Just wondering if Weapon Finesse would be worth it to you, and how valuable Improved Crit was (since of course the strength damage is multiplied, but not the SA damage).
Pallin Rahl 03-30-05, 02:55 PM	With my gear, my Str is in the low-mid 20s. :) My Dex, with gear, is in the mid-high 20s. :D (forget exact stats... and sheet not on me hehe)