Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Havrani 09-07-05, 08:04 PM	Are there any feats out there that give you the Charm Person ability/spell/spell-like-ability? I'm trying to get my Warlock to qualify for Mindbender by 6th level (so I need the charm person ability at 1st or 3rd level) without having to take any class dips. So far I only know of: Aberrant Dragonmark (charm person) Necropolitan Template with Spell Stitching
X-Codes 09-07-05, 08:33 PM	Your Charm invocation qualifies you.
Havrani 09-07-05, 08:39 PM	Your Charm invocation qualifies you.But you can't actually get that invocation until 6th level, so it doesn't quailify you in this circumstance. I need to take 5 levels of Warlock, then take Mindbender as my 6th level (which would give me Charm if I wanted it, but only when I take the Mindbender level). Besides I really had my heart set on Flee the Scene at 6th.
X-Codes 09-07-05, 08:43 PM	It's just a plain bad idea. Even in the short-run, you are only going to get a charming ability 1 level earlier, and then you will have a completely wasted feat as it will be eclipsed by the power of your Charm invocation. If you insist on it, I'm fairly certain theres some way to get it in Races of Faerun.
Havrani 09-07-05, 08:55 PM	It's just a plain bad idea. Even in the short-run, you are only going to get a charming ability 1 level earlier, and then you will have a completely wasted feat as it will be eclipsed by the power of your Charm invocation. If you insist on it, I'm fairly certain theres some way to get it in Races of Faerun.Here's my diabolical plan: take 5 levels of Warlock and then take Mindbender as my 6th level. Then I'd take Flee the Scene as my 6th level invocation and Mindsight as my 6th level feat. I'd have 3 least invocations, 1 lesser invocation, telepathy, and mindsight all at 6th level! hee hee. If I could just find another way to get Charm Person as a feat so I could play an Umbragen Drow, my evil scheme would be complete...
Illithid13 09-07-05, 09:57 PM	what is the reason for absolutly needing to take Mindbender at 6th level? Is this part of the over all goal? I'm confused by all of this...
Havrani 09-07-05, 10:43 PM	what is the reason for absolutly needing to take Mindbender at 6th level? Is this part of the over all goal? I'm confused by all of this...To take the Mindsight feat at 6th level I need to have the telepathy ability by 6th level. If I took Mindbender any later, I'd have to wait until 9th level to get Mindsight.
K 09-07-05, 11:59 PM	Yes, but its not pretty. Planar Touchstone(Catalogues of Enlightenment[Charm Domain]). You need to take the feat, travel to Nirvana and the Touchstone site, beat a +18 Knowledge check in one of four different knowledges, and convince your DM. Good luck.
Surreal 09-08-05, 03:01 AM	Grr, I think I'm rolling a 1 on my spot checks... Mindsight is in Lords of Madness right? I can't find it for the life of me (page number please?). Oh, and while I know it's not quite what you're looking for, Half-Vampire template (Libris Mortis) can grant you charm monster at will. I happen to quite like half-vampire warlocks. It just... fits :)
Havrani 09-08-05, 08:19 AM	Grr, I think I'm rolling a 1 on my spot checks... Mindsight is in Lords of Madness right? I can't find it for the life of me (page number please?). Oh, and while I know it's not quite what you're looking for, Half-Vampire template (Libris Mortis) can grant you charm monster at will. I happen to quite like half-vampire warlocks. It just... fits :)I hadn't thought of the half-vampire, same cost as taking a drow too, thanks! Mindsight is one of those "hidden" feats, like precocious apprentice....it's on page 126 in Libris Mortis in the Wearers of Flesh section.
kingrat55 09-08-05, 08:29 AM	Mindsight is one of those "hidden" feats, like precocious apprentice....it's on page 126 in Libris Mortis in the Wearers of Flesh section. It's on page 126 in Lord of Madness not in Libris Mortis
Lilt 09-08-05, 09:02 AM	Sadly, the half-vampire's ability is supernatural so it doesn't qualify you by the RAW. (It's also based on Charm Monster, whilst Mindbender requires Charm Person) Half Fey, however, from the Fiend Folio gives you charm person at-will amongst other abilities. That's for the LA of +2 as your Drow or Half-Vampire options.
Havrani 09-08-05, 09:06 AM	It's on page 126 in Lord of Madness not in Libris MortisOops, sorry had Libris Mortis on the brain after looking at the half-vampire
K 09-08-05, 02:27 PM	Sadly, the half-vampire's ability is supernatural so it doesn't qualify you by the RAW. (It's also based on Charm Monster, whilst Mindbender requires Charm Person) Half Fey, however, from the Fiend Folio gives you charm person at-will amongst other abilities. That's for the LA of +2 as your Drow or Half-Vampire options. I'll do yu one better. Fey-touched is a +1 LA race that gets Charm Person as a spell-like, and its immune to all mind-affecting spells.
Lilt 09-08-05, 04:20 PM	I'll do yu one better. Fey-touched is a +1 LA race that gets Charm Person as a spell-like, and its immune to all mind-affecting spells.Hmm. Where's that one from again? Doh... Fiend Folio also.
jedrious 09-08-05, 04:20 PM	I'll do yu one better. Fey-touched is a +1 LA race that gets Charm Person as a spell-like, and its immune to all mind-affecting spells. and hey look, your bloodline was "corrupted" by a fey meaning it fits perfecty with the warlock concept
Lilt 09-08-05, 04:35 PM	Well you can go with the +1LA version of the half-fey here (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/sp/20040213a). Although it doesn't get the immunity to mind-affecting it's a template rather than a race. What does tha mean? Well it means you can stack it with a standard race and gain the benefits of that too. Stacking it with Human gives you, for example, a free feat and +1 skill point per level. The spell-likes are also better, getting charm person at will rather than 1/day and gradually gaining batter ones as you progress (like mass invisibility). Furthermore, you can take the second level giving you +2 charisma (+1 on save DCs FTW), Dominate Person 1/day at 11th adding to your mindbenderishness (this is real 1 day/level domination... dammn that sounds dodgy), wings (no need for fell flight), ETC.
Illithid13 09-08-05, 04:43 PM	To take the Mindsight feat at 6th level I need to have the telepathy ability by 6th level. If I took Mindbender any later, I'd have to wait until 9th level to get Mindsight. That is why I'm confused... I don't have the book with Mindsight in it.
ancalimohtar 09-08-05, 04:49 PM	Savage Progressions is often quite cheesy. The purpose is to provide progressions for acquired templates so you don't mess up the power balance in a party; however, they said normally inherited templates can also be acquired under special circumstances; only then should you use the savage progressions levels for them. How are you going to acquire the half-fey template mid-campaign? If not, go back to being fey-touched. It's much less cheesy.
Havrani 09-08-05, 06:52 PM	This is all good stuff, thanks everyone! I like the feytouched template because for a single LA you get the charm person SLA plus you're fey so you can create feycraft items and I just can't say no to the immunity to mind-affecting effects. The half-fey's butterfly wings are just too "fey" for my warlock concept (as cool as it would be to get the ability to fly). It's so unfair that the half vampire is over qualified for Mindbender...especially since if you put the Supernatural Transformation feat on your Charm invocation, you'd lose access to Mindbender for the same reason.
Havrani 09-08-05, 07:28 PM	Well you can go with the +1LA version of the half-fey here (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/sp/20040213a). Although it doesn't get the immunity to mind-affecting it's a template rather than a race. What does tha mean? Well it means you can stack it with a standard race and gain the benefits of that too. Stacking it with Human gives you, for example, a free feat and +1 skill point per level. The spell-likes are also better, getting charm person at will rather than 1/day and gradually gaining batter ones as you progress (like mass invisibility). Furthermore, you can take the second level giving you +2 charisma (+1 on save DCs FTW), Dominate Person 1/day at 11th adding to your mindbenderishness (this is real 1 day/level domination... dammn that sounds dodgy), wings (no need for fell flight), ETC.Ah, I see what you mean, I could be a human with one level of half-fey to get the charm person SLA on top of the free human stuff, then I could take a second level later on to get all the half-fey goodies like immunity to enchantments and flight (maybe I'll tweak it to say he has raven wings instead of insect wings). Except this would blow up my goal of getting Mindbender by 6th level...
Havrani 09-08-05, 07:31 PM	That is why I'm confused... I don't have the book with Mindsight in it.With a name like Illithid13 you haven't bought Lords of Madness yet?!?!? Take an immediate detour to Amazon.com!
IceFractal 09-08-05, 07:42 PM	If you go with the Feytouched, you can, at some point, take a level of Rogue and the Craven feat. The sneak attack balances out the EB damage you lose evenly, but with the Craven feat you also get +1 point/character level of extra damage. And, since you're immune to mind-affecting stuff, the penalty to saves against fear barely matters - there's like, what, 2? 3? non-magical sources of fear in the whole game, it may never come up. Of course, Necropolitan + Utterdark Blast = Infinite self-healing at up to 9d6/round. Get The Dead Walk and Eldritch Doom too and you can be damaging your enemies, healing your minions, and healing yourself, all at the same time.
Havrani 09-08-05, 08:30 PM	If you go with the Feytouched, you can, at some point, take a level of Rogue and the Craven feat. The sneak attack balances out the EB damage you lose evenly, but with the Craven feat you also get +1 point/character level of extra damage. And, since you're immune to mind-affecting stuff, the penalty to saves against fear barely matters - there's like, what, 2? 3? non-magical sources of fear in the whole game, it may never come up. Of course, Necropolitan + Utterdark Blast = Infinite self-healing at up to 9d6/round. Get The Dead Walk and Eldritch Doom too and you can be damaging your enemies, healing your minions, and healing yourself, all at the same time.Shweet! What book is Craven in, I can't find it?
runestar 09-08-05, 10:08 PM	Craven is in Champions of Ruin. Isn't there a ritual in LoD that nets you charm person 1/day?
fade` 09-08-05, 10:23 PM	One of the cyricist rituals in lords of darkness gives it to you as a spell like ability, costs a lot of XP though ;)
Lilt 09-09-05, 07:21 AM	Ah, I see what you mean, I could be a human with one level of half-fey to get the charm person SLA on top of the free human stuff, then I could take a second level later on to get all the half-fey goodies like immunity to enchantments and flight (maybe I'll tweak it to say he has raven wings instead of insect wings). Except this would blow up my goal of getting Mindbender by 6th level...I'm confused... You need +1LA from Feytouched to get Charm Person, and you need +1LA from Half-fey to get charm peerson. If you start your character at level 1 as a human with the +1LA version of the half-fey template then it's practically identical to Feytouched, which is a race in its own right like Aasimar or Tiefling, except that you get the goodies associated with your base race as you describe. The only logical problem (big change) with adding the second part of half-fey are the wings, as you're gaining new spell-likes as you gain experience anyway. That's something to discuss with your DM, however, and may involve a cocoon and a week or so depending on how your DM wants it to work. You could also say that you had vestigal wings from birth but only then do you finally work-up the strength to fly with them. I personally would consider waiting until 11HD or so before adding the second LA so you can grab that Dominate Person or Hold Monster ability. Craven is nice, and immunity to mind-affecting is probably more effective than immunity to enchantments at blocking fear-effects, but do bear in mind that the extra damage from craven only applies on sneak-attacks. That gives you a choice between blasting away and maneuvering for sneak attacks, which might not always be the best option. The +20 damage from a sneak attack is worth less than 6d6 of eldrich blast, and as you have more EB damage than that then you're probably better-off blasting every round than maneuvering for a round then blasting for a few then maneuvering again. Note that you're also lacking the tumble skill which may cause problems when trying to flank indoors. Outdoors you can just fly, however.