Any Optimized Scout Threads? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Any Optimized Scout Threads? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Lioneking
02-26-06, 02:57 PM Howdy all,

Been looking for any Scout info (Core class from CAd) and haven't had much luck finding anything.

Anyone done any work already on this. I realize the Scout may not be that strong a class but I have a friend who really wanted to play one.

Thanks!
Brad
lostone
02-26-06, 03:23 PM It hasn't been highly discussed lately because it isn't the New Big Thing(TM).

I'll give you some thoughts from memory:
You either need some kind of pouncing ability (there is a thread around that has a list of 13+ ways to get pounce) or other way to move the 10ft so you can still get a full attack of skirmish.

One way I like is the Sparring Dummy of the Master in A&EG. It allows monks to move 10ft whenever they could take a 5ft step and still take the full attack action. Just circle around your opponent or switch between them (have mobility and other ways to prevent AoO). It does require you to take a level dip into monk, but I like monks. :D

Other people have combined Scout with the Dervish prestige class which takes a 5ft move between each attack. After the first attack you get skirmish every attack.

Edit: Found the pounce thing, it may be outdated as I don't have the link to the original thread, just saved the post to a .txt file.

The Grand Compilation of Full-Attack Charging PC Tricks
(by approximate level of availability; missing Sandstorm, Lost Empires of Faerun, Lords of Madness, Heroes of Battle, Champions of Ruin)

NO TEMPLATES ARE LISTED HERE.

Also, certain abilities only work in the first round of combat. Others work any time they are used.

1) Snow Tiger Berserker feat (berserker lodge feat (RP restriction), light weapons only, Unapproachable East)
1) Lion Tribe Warrior (Regional feat, human only, single light weapon only, Shining South)
2) Catfolk Pounce feat (Racial feat: Catfolk, Races of the Wild. Available at character level 1, but listed at level 2 because of Catfolk's +1 LA)
4) Psionic Lion's Charge (2nd level psywar power, augments to add damage to each attack, Expanded Psionic's Handbook)
5) Lion's Charge (3rd level druid / 4th level ranger spell, most recent version Miniatures Handbook)
5) Wild Shape (Fleshraker, Monster Manual III)
6) Lion's Pounce Wild Feat (Complete Divine)
7) Polymorph spell (many forms grant Pounce or similar abilities)
7) Metamorphosis power (as Polymorph, but might require Supernatural Transformation)
8) Wild Shape (Tiger) (If Core-only.)
8) Weretouched II: Tiger (Weretouched Master prestige class ability, Shifter only and only while shifting, Eberron CS)
10) Pouncing Ambush (5th level Reachrunner prestige class ability, Shifter only and only while shifting, against flat-footed opponent only, Races of Eberron)
11) Lion's Pounce (4th level Sigh Rager prestige class ability, Oriental Adventures)
12) Lion's Pounce (5th level Lion of Talisid prestige class ability, Book of Exalted Deeds)
13) Drift 4: Pounce like a leopard (7th level Geomancer drift, Complete Divine)
17) Shapechange spell (many forms grant Pounce or an extra move action, or something sicker (Chronotryn (FF), Choker).)
17) Greater Metamorphosis power (As Shapechange, but may require Metamorphic Transfer feat)
21) Dire Charge epic feat (Widely accepted as at least slightly underpowered, but works regardless of your equipment or magic availability. Draconomicon)

Variable level: Claws of the Leopard (spiked gauntlets, Complete Adventurer, priced at 38,305. Only works with the claws themselves).

Note that the Great Granddaddy of Wild Shape, the Mulhorandi Divine Minion, may be able to pull off some of these far earlier than other characters.

With sufficient cheatery twinks, anything is possible.

Runner-ups (those with similar abilities that do not exactly count as charging):
Full Mounted Attack (Cavalier and Halfling Outrider, CW; Kishi Charger, OA, possibly others)
Dervish Dance (Dervish, CW)
Hustle (Psychic Warrior / Egoist power, XPH)
Wild Plains Offensive (Wild Plains Outrider, CV)
Shadow Pounce (Teflammar Shadowlord, UE)
Lion Tribe Warrior (Regional feat, two light weapons only, Shining South)
Two-Weapon Spring Attack (Tempest, CV)
Dimension Spring Attack (Elocator, XPH)
Black Magic Oil: Malign Fury (Warrior of Darkness, BoVD)
So, add something like bracers of Psionic Lion's Charge if you so choose, and pogo-stick on the guy's head. For some reason, though (likely Smash Brothers and Soul Calibur 2), this reminds me more of Link than Kain. ^_^
(Still, I've added them in as "would be nice" items, in the true Miles O'Brien style).

EDIT -- By the way, the Pentathrust-type abilities are new to FFXI, at least as I've seen them. There's only two other examples that I'm aware of -- one was another relic in FFVI that made a character with Jump do it multiple times (but that superspecialized the character (they could only wear two relics, and the other would have to be the jump boots), and only two people could use the spears/lances that made Jump worthwhile), and FFVII had Cid's Dragon Dive limit break (multiple explosive Jump attacks; best used on a large/medium group, as his other limit at that level, Big Brawl, did more damage, but with weaker individual hits, so you'd want it to concentrate on one guy). Mind you, the way I played Kain, if he was on the ground, he was either immediately ordered to jump, or dead. (I've been known to beat Bahamut, for kicks, using no one but Kain. It's surprisingly easy, since you just Jump right over his MegaNuke in that game).

Impeesa: Why shouldn't I have used it? Like you said, it dovetailed nicely, and had some pretty good synergy. If it ain't broke...
My only complaint with the blade dancer here is how late Acrobatic Attack comes into play. Since it's really just rounding out the build, though, that's paltry.

That said, I'm using literally every feat slot but one already. 2 levels of psywar aren't that hot when dipping, as you lose out on base attack and your power points are pretty poor (although you DO have better Wisdom synergy). If you want to tweak it, go ahead.

As for pulling out of a charge, there's ways like the power Hustle (gives you an extra move action). Alternately, I'm not sure about this one, but by disabling some of those feats (like Leap Attack), could you do something like this as your normal Spring-Attack attack action? Or would the mere act of falling prevent you from pulling this off? (Bear in mind, normally, on a charge, you have to move in a straight line. Here, you move into position (up), and then fall, and the fall is treated as a charge).
Lioneking
02-26-06, 03:34 PM Thanks muchly :)

She (the player) wants to stick with mostly archery stuff so going to have to see what else I can find for her...but pounce is a good start for looking at things.

Brad
lostone
02-26-06, 03:39 PM Thanks muchly :)

She (the player) wants to stick with mostly archery stuff so going to have to see what else I can find for her...but pounce is a good start for looking at things.I'm sure there are better options for archer scouts but a good start would be Shot on the Run and Manyshot combined with a Splitting enhanced bow (splitting is in champions of ruin I think). A 20th level scout should be firing off 6 effective arrows that way.
PonTelon
02-26-06, 03:53 PM Many people think to go mount, but the Errata have stated that skirmish damage doesn't apply to mounted combat. So basically go with what Iostone said for easiest. Otherwise, Shot on the Run is a good feat choice.
stanfield
02-26-06, 04:10 PM try this build is fun one that is highly flexible human build that i have found to be very adaptable to any situation or playstyle.

1st scout
2nd fighter
3rd scout
4th monk
5th monk
6th scout
7th fighter
8th scout

from here you have a massive amount of options for prc's and a strong broad base for any character progressions :)
Nifft
02-26-06, 04:28 PM Check out the XPH (Expanded Psionics Handbook), or the Psionics section of the SRD: http://d20srd.org/indexes/psionicFeats.htm

The feat she wants is Greater Manyshot, and it's not even a [Psionic] feat. :)

Cheers, -- N
AramilWindwalker
02-26-06, 05:25 PM and a splitting bow of speed(or a haste item/ability), nastyness, 8 arrows in one standard action, with skirmish on each tasty arrow, sign me up.
neantollo
02-26-06, 06:27 PM Tempest Stormwind has this fun, fun scout build (though its not a ranged build):

http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=5436939

See if you can get some Bracers of Psionic Lion's Charge; according to the DMG item creation rules, they are rather cheap.

Also, Elocators (XPH) and scouts work very well together.
X-Codes
02-26-06, 07:02 PM and a splitting bow of speed(or a haste item/ability), nastyness, 8 arrows in one standard action, with skirmish on each tasty arrow, sign me up.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm fairly certain Splitting is a volley attack, and Skirmish adds precision damage. Also, haste effects don't add arrows to a Greater Manyshot since it is not a full attack, so only 3 applications of Skirmish here with 6 arrows with other damage mods you can pick up.

The simplified rule about precision damage is you get to add it once with each successful attack roll. Since I don't remember where Splitting is to look it up, I can't say for certain whether or not each arrow gets the damage.
Che
02-26-06, 07:18 PM depending on your starting level, there can be good synergy between Ranger, Scout, and Highland Stalker. The build I am currently using (in world's largst dungeon) is: http://d20.mattylee.com/dungeons/optimized_archer.php

That build was made specifically for seventh level character, but it works pretty well all the way through.

Ranger is great for all-purpose ranged fighters. Their ability to use wands to cure, their various combat style feats, animal companions, and high BAB make them a very balanced party member. Cross-classing with Scout and Highland Stalker gives them the ability to disable traps and gives them quite a bit of precision damage.
Surreal
02-27-06, 02:24 AM Here's a link for you: http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=584572
Khan the Destroyer
02-27-06, 02:42 AM Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm fairly certain Splitting is a volley attack, and Skirmish adds precision damage. Also, haste effects don't add arrows to a Greater Manyshot since it is not a full attack, so only 3 applications of Skirmish here with 6 arrows with other damage mods you can pick up.

The simplified rule about precision damage is you get to add it once with each successful attack roll. Since I don't remember where Splitting is to look it up, I can't say for certain whether or not each arrow gets the damage.
Splitting is found in Champions of Ruin. I just checked it out and you make a seperate attack roll for each arrow, and each arrow is exactly identical to the original arrow. Following the precedent set by Greater Manyshot, the fact that you make a seperate attack roll for each splitting arrow would seem to indicate that you get precision damage on each one.

That is what I would guess anyways. Seems pretty powerful. The user must possess the Precise Shot feat to use it.

Also, going back to the Sparring Master of the Dummy... a halfling monk can take the substitution level found in Races of the Wild and actually gain Skirmish damage instead of Flurry of Blows at 1st level. While this would still require multi-classing, you will gain one damage die of Skirmish damage in the process. So a Halfling Monk 1/Scout 19 would end up with 6d6 Skirmish damage, and the ability to move 10' as a 5' step. (He would also have some xp penalties :)).

The only problem with Greater Manyshot is the penalty to attack that you take for using it. A -8 to attack for 4 arrows is pretty steep. I tried to optimize a Raptoran Scout with Flyby Attack but I couldn't get the attack roll to a decent enough number.
Lioneking
02-27-06, 02:49 AM Nice stuff, thanks all! :)

Brad

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Lioneking 02-26-06, 02:57 PM	Howdy all, Been looking for any Scout info (Core class from CAd) and haven't had much luck finding anything. Anyone done any work already on this. I realize the Scout may not be that strong a class but I have a friend who really wanted to play one. Thanks! Brad
lostone 02-26-06, 03:23 PM	It hasn't been highly discussed lately because it isn't the New Big Thing(TM). I'll give you some thoughts from memory: You either need some kind of pouncing ability (there is a thread around that has a list of 13+ ways to get pounce) or other way to move the 10ft so you can still get a full attack of skirmish. One way I like is the Sparring Dummy of the Master in A&EG. It allows monks to move 10ft whenever they could take a 5ft step and still take the full attack action. Just circle around your opponent or switch between them (have mobility and other ways to prevent AoO). It does require you to take a level dip into monk, but I like monks. :D Other people have combined Scout with the Dervish prestige class which takes a 5ft move between each attack. After the first attack you get skirmish every attack. Edit: Found the pounce thing, it may be outdated as I don't have the link to the original thread, just saved the post to a .txt file. The Grand Compilation of Full-Attack Charging PC Tricks (by approximate level of availability; missing Sandstorm, Lost Empires of Faerun, Lords of Madness, Heroes of Battle, Champions of Ruin) NO TEMPLATES ARE LISTED HERE. Also, certain abilities only work in the first round of combat. Others work any time they are used. 1) Snow Tiger Berserker feat (berserker lodge feat (RP restriction), light weapons only, Unapproachable East) 1) Lion Tribe Warrior (Regional feat, human only, single light weapon only, Shining South) 2) Catfolk Pounce feat (Racial feat: Catfolk, Races of the Wild. Available at character level 1, but listed at level 2 because of Catfolk's +1 LA) 4) Psionic Lion's Charge (2nd level psywar power, augments to add damage to each attack, Expanded Psionic's Handbook) 5) Lion's Charge (3rd level druid / 4th level ranger spell, most recent version Miniatures Handbook) 5) Wild Shape (Fleshraker, Monster Manual III) 6) Lion's Pounce Wild Feat (Complete Divine) 7) Polymorph spell (many forms grant Pounce or similar abilities) 7) Metamorphosis power (as Polymorph, but might require Supernatural Transformation) 8) Wild Shape (Tiger) (If Core-only.) 8) Weretouched II: Tiger (Weretouched Master prestige class ability, Shifter only and only while shifting, Eberron CS) 10) Pouncing Ambush (5th level Reachrunner prestige class ability, Shifter only and only while shifting, against flat-footed opponent only, Races of Eberron) 11) Lion's Pounce (4th level Sigh Rager prestige class ability, Oriental Adventures) 12) Lion's Pounce (5th level Lion of Talisid prestige class ability, Book of Exalted Deeds) 13) Drift 4: Pounce like a leopard (7th level Geomancer drift, Complete Divine) 17) Shapechange spell (many forms grant Pounce or an extra move action, or something sicker (Chronotryn (FF), Choker).) 17) Greater Metamorphosis power (As Shapechange, but may require Metamorphic Transfer feat) 21) Dire Charge epic feat (Widely accepted as at least slightly underpowered, but works regardless of your equipment or magic availability. Draconomicon) Variable level: Claws of the Leopard (spiked gauntlets, Complete Adventurer, priced at 38,305. Only works with the claws themselves). Note that the Great Granddaddy of Wild Shape, the Mulhorandi Divine Minion, may be able to pull off some of these far earlier than other characters. With sufficient cheatery twinks, anything is possible. Runner-ups (those with similar abilities that do not exactly count as charging): Full Mounted Attack (Cavalier and Halfling Outrider, CW; Kishi Charger, OA, possibly others) Dervish Dance (Dervish, CW) Hustle (Psychic Warrior / Egoist power, XPH) Wild Plains Offensive (Wild Plains Outrider, CV) Shadow Pounce (Teflammar Shadowlord, UE) Lion Tribe Warrior (Regional feat, two light weapons only, Shining South) Two-Weapon Spring Attack (Tempest, CV) Dimension Spring Attack (Elocator, XPH) Black Magic Oil: Malign Fury (Warrior of Darkness, BoVD) So, add something like bracers of Psionic Lion's Charge if you so choose, and pogo-stick on the guy's head. For some reason, though (likely Smash Brothers and Soul Calibur 2), this reminds me more of Link than Kain. ^_^ (Still, I've added them in as "would be nice" items, in the true Miles O'Brien style). EDIT -- By the way, the Pentathrust-type abilities are new to FFXI, at least as I've seen them. There's only two other examples that I'm aware of -- one was another relic in FFVI that made a character with Jump do it multiple times (but that superspecialized the character (they could only wear two relics, and the other would have to be the jump boots), and only two people could use the spears/lances that made Jump worthwhile), and FFVII had Cid's Dragon Dive limit break (multiple explosive Jump attacks; best used on a large/medium group, as his other limit at that level, Big Brawl, did more damage, but with weaker individual hits, so you'd want it to concentrate on one guy). Mind you, the way I played Kain, if he was on the ground, he was either immediately ordered to jump, or dead. (I've been known to beat Bahamut, for kicks, using no one but Kain. It's surprisingly easy, since you just Jump right over his MegaNuke in that game). Impeesa: Why shouldn't I have used it? Like you said, it dovetailed nicely, and had some pretty good synergy. If it ain't broke... My only complaint with the blade dancer here is how late Acrobatic Attack comes into play. Since it's really just rounding out the build, though, that's paltry. That said, I'm using literally every feat slot but one already. 2 levels of psywar aren't that hot when dipping, as you lose out on base attack and your power points are pretty poor (although you DO have better Wisdom synergy). If you want to tweak it, go ahead. As for pulling out of a charge, there's ways like the power Hustle (gives you an extra move action). Alternately, I'm not sure about this one, but by disabling some of those feats (like Leap Attack), could you do something like this as your normal Spring-Attack attack action? Or would the mere act of falling prevent you from pulling this off? (Bear in mind, normally, on a charge, you have to move in a straight line. Here, you move into position (up), and then fall, and the fall is treated as a charge).
Lioneking 02-26-06, 03:34 PM	Thanks muchly :) She (the player) wants to stick with mostly archery stuff so going to have to see what else I can find for her...but pounce is a good start for looking at things. Brad
lostone 02-26-06, 03:39 PM	Thanks muchly :) She (the player) wants to stick with mostly archery stuff so going to have to see what else I can find for her...but pounce is a good start for looking at things.I'm sure there are better options for archer scouts but a good start would be Shot on the Run and Manyshot combined with a Splitting enhanced bow (splitting is in champions of ruin I think). A 20th level scout should be firing off 6 effective arrows that way.
PonTelon 02-26-06, 03:53 PM	Many people think to go mount, but the Errata have stated that skirmish damage doesn't apply to mounted combat. So basically go with what Iostone said for easiest. Otherwise, Shot on the Run is a good feat choice.
stanfield 02-26-06, 04:10 PM	try this build is fun one that is highly flexible human build that i have found to be very adaptable to any situation or playstyle. 1st scout 2nd fighter 3rd scout 4th monk 5th monk 6th scout 7th fighter 8th scout from here you have a massive amount of options for prc's and a strong broad base for any character progressions :)
Nifft 02-26-06, 04:28 PM	Check out the XPH (Expanded Psionics Handbook), or the Psionics section of the SRD: http://d20srd.org/indexes/psionicFeats.htm The feat she wants is Greater Manyshot, and it's not even a [Psionic] feat. :) Cheers, -- N
AramilWindwalker 02-26-06, 05:25 PM	and a splitting bow of speed(or a haste item/ability), nastyness, 8 arrows in one standard action, with skirmish on each tasty arrow, sign me up.
neantollo 02-26-06, 06:27 PM	Tempest Stormwind has this fun, fun scout build (though its not a ranged build): http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=5436939 See if you can get some Bracers of Psionic Lion's Charge; according to the DMG item creation rules, they are rather cheap. Also, Elocators (XPH) and scouts work very well together.
X-Codes 02-26-06, 07:02 PM	and a splitting bow of speed(or a haste item/ability), nastyness, 8 arrows in one standard action, with skirmish on each tasty arrow, sign me up. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm fairly certain Splitting is a volley attack, and Skirmish adds precision damage. Also, haste effects don't add arrows to a Greater Manyshot since it is not a full attack, so only 3 applications of Skirmish here with 6 arrows with other damage mods you can pick up. The simplified rule about precision damage is you get to add it once with each successful attack roll. Since I don't remember where Splitting is to look it up, I can't say for certain whether or not each arrow gets the damage.
Che 02-26-06, 07:18 PM	depending on your starting level, there can be good synergy between Ranger, Scout, and Highland Stalker. The build I am currently using (in world's largst dungeon) is: http://d20.mattylee.com/dungeons/optimized_archer.php That build was made specifically for seventh level character, but it works pretty well all the way through. Ranger is great for all-purpose ranged fighters. Their ability to use wands to cure, their various combat style feats, animal companions, and high BAB make them a very balanced party member. Cross-classing with Scout and Highland Stalker gives them the ability to disable traps and gives them quite a bit of precision damage.
Surreal 02-27-06, 02:24 AM	Here's a link for you: http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=584572
Khan the Destroyer 02-27-06, 02:42 AM	Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm fairly certain Splitting is a volley attack, and Skirmish adds precision damage. Also, haste effects don't add arrows to a Greater Manyshot since it is not a full attack, so only 3 applications of Skirmish here with 6 arrows with other damage mods you can pick up. The simplified rule about precision damage is you get to add it once with each successful attack roll. Since I don't remember where Splitting is to look it up, I can't say for certain whether or not each arrow gets the damage. Splitting is found in Champions of Ruin. I just checked it out and you make a seperate attack roll for each arrow, and each arrow is exactly identical to the original arrow. Following the precedent set by Greater Manyshot, the fact that you make a seperate attack roll for each splitting arrow would seem to indicate that you get precision damage on each one. That is what I would guess anyways. Seems pretty powerful. The user must possess the Precise Shot feat to use it. Also, going back to the Sparring Master of the Dummy... a halfling monk can take the substitution level found in Races of the Wild and actually gain Skirmish damage instead of Flurry of Blows at 1st level. While this would still require multi-classing, you will gain one damage die of Skirmish damage in the process. So a Halfling Monk 1/Scout 19 would end up with 6d6 Skirmish damage, and the ability to move 10' as a 5' step. (He would also have some xp penalties :)). The only problem with Greater Manyshot is the penalty to attack that you take for using it. A -8 to attack for 4 arrows is pretty steep. I tried to optimize a Raptoran Scout with Flyby Attack but I couldn't get the attack roll to a decent enough number.
Lioneking 02-27-06, 02:49 AM	Nice stuff, thanks all! :) Brad