Post/Author/DateTime	Post
rleonardh 10-31-06, 11:26 PM	Trying to create an old fashion f/m/t. Books allowed are the 3 core, phb2, and all complete books. Ok so far I have this in mind. Rouge3/Fighter1/Wizard or Sorcerer 5/ Spellsword1/ArcaneTrickster5/AbjuanctChampion5. Give 16 BAB, 16 Caster level and spells, and rouge abilities of 8.
darkone7141981 11-22-06, 02:11 PM	Unseen Seer (Complete Mage) would be a good alternative to Arcane Trickster or Abjurant Champion. If you went with Swashbuckler 3/Rogue 1/Wizard 1/Unseen Seer 10/Spell Sword 1/? 3 you would get a nice build too. Lots of Intelligence synergy. You might even find the Arcane Duelist (online PrC, google it). It might be a good choice too. DarkOne7141981
hogarth 11-22-06, 02:36 PM	Trying to create an old fashion f/m/t. Books allowed are the 3 core, phb2, and all complete books. Ok so far I have this in mind. Rouge3/Fighter1/Wizard or Sorcerer 5/ Spellsword1/ArcaneTrickster5/AbjuanctChampion5. Give 16 BAB, 16 Caster level and spells, and rouge abilities of 8. I calculate 13 BAB for that build. How about Beguiler/Fighter/Eldritch Knight/Abjurant Champion? (needs Able Learner)
wingedcoyote 11-22-06, 03:30 PM	I calculate 13 BAB for that build. How about Beguiler/Fighter/Eldritch Knight/Abjurant Champion? (needs Able Learner) Beguiler is a great caster, but I probably wouldn't use it for a gish -- Wraithstrike is just too much fun. :) EDIT: This isn't optimized, but I might consider Rogue 3 / Wizard 2 / Unseen Seer 8 / Abjurant Champion 5 / Dragonslayer 1 / Spellsword 1. That gets you 9th level spells, 16 BAB, and pretty good rogue abilities.
amalcon 11-22-06, 04:47 PM	I'm surprised nobody has mentioned Daggerspell Mage (Cadventurer)! If only you didn't have to lose 3 BAB to get its best ability (meaning it's impossible to pick up 16 BAB unless you can get trapfinding and a sneak attack die from a full BAB class), it would practically be a F/M/T all by itself! Lead in with: Any Race (Sun Elf? Human, even though they couldn't be F/M/Ts?) 1. Rogue: Two-Weapon Fighting, [Free Feat] 2. Swashbuckler (Cwarrior): Weapon Finesse 3. Wizard: Practiced Spellcaster 4. Swashbuckler: 5. Wizard: 6. Swashbuckler: Weapon Focus: Dagger, (Int to Damage) This is a very Int-based build, with a lesser emphasis on Dexterity. At high levels, I would finish up with Eldritch Knight or something else with both BAB and casting. You get the following: - An average of nearly 4+Int mod skill points per level for the lead-in; this is pretty good if you take a high Int (which you should). Unfortunately, you have a pretty useless skill list most of the time. - Sneak Attack 1d6, plus whatever you get for your DSM levels - Int bonus to damage against anything Sneak Attack applies to The downsides: - Due to a horrible oversight, the DSM lacks the following as class skills: Search, Disable Device, and Sleight of Hand. I like Able Learner to repair this, but that's in Races of Destiny which is not on your allowed book list. Thus, the best way to fix it is to periodically take levels in Rogue, and dump all your points for those levels into these skills. - Relatively low BAB: You've only got 4 from the 6-level lead-in. You get an average of 3/4 from DSM, with your next three Rogue levels being worth 1 each. - Bad casting progression...but you're a F/M/T, you were expecting that.
Phoenix00 11-22-06, 05:16 PM	Modification of an above build Swashbuckler 3/Wizard 1/Rogue 1/Unseen Seer 7/Spellsword 1/Abjurant Champion 5/Arcane Trickster 2 BAB 17, 16th level Casting. Huge Int Synergy, int to damage, has decent AC due to Abjurant Champion, 1 level with 8 skill points, 7 levels with 6 skill points, 2 levels with 4 skill points. Grab Hunter Eye from the PHB2 with your Advanced Learning and you will also have 1d6+3d6+1d6+7d6=12d6 Sneak Attack
FriendlyFrog 11-23-06, 03:34 AM	Modification of an above build Swashbuckler 3/Wizard 1/Rogue 1/Unseen Seer 7/Spellsword 1/Abjurant Champion 5/Arcane Trickster 2 BAB 17, 16th level Casting. How on earth do you get a BAB of 17 out of that? Wizard loses one, Rogue loses one, Unseen seer loses two and Arcane trickster loses one point, so that's a BAB of 15. I like Rogue 3/Fighter 2/Wizard 2/Unseen seer 8/Abjurant champion 5 for the sheer simplicity of it. BAB 16, spells as a level 15 Wizard, avarage of 5+23*Int skill points per level, 4d6 sneak attack (can get 19d6 with Hunter's eye and Polymorphing into a kelvezu). Though a lot easier way would be using Chameleon. You'll lose higher level arcane spells, but get access to all arcane and divine spells of level 6 and lower. My favourite versatility build is (Feat) Rogue 2/Warblade 3/Chameleon 10/Warblade +5, for BAB of 16, 6th level arcane and divine spells, 7th level martial manouvers and good skills. This character is a party of his own! And there is the Artificer...
wingedcoyote 11-23-06, 03:14 PM	I like Rogue 3/Fighter 2/Wizard 2/Unseen seer 8/Abjurant champion 5 for the sheer simplicity of it. BAB 16, spells as a level 15 Wizard, avarage of 5+23*Int skill points per level, 4d6 sneak attack (can get 19d6 with Hunter's eye and Polymorphing into a kelvezu). Not bad, but are the Fighter levels really worth 9th level spells?
FriendlyFrog 11-23-06, 03:32 PM	Not bad, but are the Fighter levels really worth 9th level spells? If you can get them, 9th level spells are very, very good. But it's pretty hard to get +2 BAB and +2 arcane spellcasting in two levels without taking one level dips into prestige classes like Spellsword and Dragonslayer, which is what I tried to avoid.
wingedcoyote 11-23-06, 03:39 PM	If you can get them, 9th level spells are very, very good. But it's pretty hard to get +2 BAB and +2 arcane spellcasting in two levels without taking one level dips into prestige classes like Spellsword and Dragonslayer, which is what I tried to avoid. Aah, I get it. Religious differences. :) You're right, without the double-dip I don't think there's a way to accomplish it. And of course, 8th level spells are nothing to sneeze at. :)