Any use to being a Blackguard at CL 2? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Any use to being a Blackguard at CL 2? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Curious
02-20-04, 02:05 AM Consider the following:

Ex-Paladin 10, takes a level of Blackguard.

This allows him to trade levels of ex-Paladin for levels of Blackguard, becoming a

Ex-Paladin 1, BlackGuard 10

His levels are drained, he becomes:

Ex-Paladin 1 / BlackGuard 1

Go ahead from there - but is there any build that could use access to the PrC at level 2?
JosephKell
02-20-04, 02:12 AM Look at the prequisites for the Blackguard, if someone has enough skill ranks, feats, and Base Attack Bonus (+5) after only level 1 to meet or beat those, then yes. They can go Whatever 1/Blackguard 1 at Character Level 2.

FYI: The answer is an emphatic "NO."
catharz
02-20-04, 02:48 AM Originally posted by JosephKell
Look at the prequisites for the Blackguard, if someone has enough skill ranks, feats, and Base Attack Bonus (+5) after only level 1 to meet or beat those, then yes. They can go Whatever 1/Blackguard 1 at Character Level 2.

FYI: The answer is an emphatic "NO."

JK, what exactly is your point?

Originally posted by Curious
Go ahead from there - but is there any build that could use access to the PrC at level 2?

There are probably plenty of builds that could benefit, but it isn't worth min/maxing: loosing nine levels just sucks.

The 'best' thing to do from Pal 1/Blk 10 is to just advance that, and be happy that you get 19 levels of PrCs in 20 levels (possibly 21 at level 21!).

If, by unfortunate circumstance you do get level drained, Blackguard 7 is still the best cut-off next to 10. 4th level spells gets you nito Nar demonbinder, which you can advance with Arcane trickster :drool:

A Pal 1/Blk 7/ND 2/Arcane trickster 10 = 7th level ND casting, 9th level Blk casting, great Sneak attack, great skills, and epic ready. Of course, Blk 10 and more meele-type casses for BAB+16 might be even better. Depends on your style.
Laelenie
02-20-04, 04:50 AM Originally posted by JosephKell
Look at the prequisites for the Blackguard, if someone has enough skill ranks, feats, and Base Attack Bonus (+5) after only level 1 to meet or beat those, then yes. They can go Whatever 1/Blackguard 1 at Character Level 2.

FYI: The answer is an emphatic "NO."

JK.
You think you are cool.
You think you are right.
You think you are good at min/maxing.

You think you can shout out with size 7 posts.

But you should start reading the rules and other members' posts.

From the SRD:
"
Fallen Paladins
Fallen Paladins
Blackguards who have levels in the paladin class (that is to say, are now ex-paladins) gain extra abilities the more levels of paladin they have.
A fallen paladin who becomes a blackguard gains all of the following abilities that apply, according to the number of paladin levels the character has.

1–2: Smite good 1/day. (This is in addition to the ability granted to all blackguards at 2nd level.
3–4: Lay on hands. Once per day, the blackguard can use this supernatural ability to cure himself or his fiendish servant of damage equal to his Charisma bonus x his level.
5–6: Sneak attack damage increased by +1d6. Smite good 2/day.
7–8: Fiendish summoning. Once per day, the blackguard can use a summon monster I spell to call forth an evil creature. For this spell, the caster level is double the blackguard’s class level.
9–10: Undead companion. In addition to the fiendish servant, the blackguard gains (at 5th level) a Medium-size skeleton or zombie as a companion. This companion cannot be turned or rebuked and gains all special bonuses as a fiendish servant when the blackguard gains levels. Smite good 3/day.
11 or more: A fallen paladin of this stature immediately gains a blackguard level for each level of paladin he trades in.
The character level of the character does not change. With the loss of paladin levels, the character no longer gains as many extra abilities for being a fallen paladin.
"

Yes he is WRONG cause the maximum possible is Paladin 2/Blkguard 10, you cannot "lose" levels it specifically says your CL does not change.

Still you have grossly misunderstood.

Think before posting. And think befor putting size 7 comments in your post.

Word.
strenoth
02-20-04, 04:58 AM With the new rule that no longer meeting prerequisites for a PrC doesn't mean loosing the PrC abilities. I guess you can do spirit-of-the-rules breaking stuff like that, but IMC I would never let any character drop their total non-blackguard levels to the point where the BaB would be less than +5 w/o black guard levels.

Anyway, given the situation you propose (technicalities of if you can get there asside), and you are playing in the Forgotten Realms, there was a kinda nice Domination oriented PrC for Bane if I remember correctly. Just take leadership when you reach 6th (5 levels of black guard) level again, and what ever the other prerequites are, and you can actually get into the class with a full BaB by level 7 I think. Don't remember the PrC's details, but it was in a dragon magazine. Fun if you want to play the Dark Knight type and actually have more than 1 Cohort type NPC.
Funny Slaughter
02-20-04, 05:24 AM With the new rule that no longer meeting prerequisites for a PrC doesn't mean loosing the PrC abilities.

can you give a reference for this?
if not, read CW p. 16 left paragraph.

in my opinion the trade-in of paladin-levels is a bad idea by design and quite unclear.
lets say a paladin 11 loses his faith and qualifies for the blakguard-PrC. if you say that the level-trade forms an exception in regards of meeting PrC-prerequisites you can trade 10 levels in and you could become a level-drained pal1/blg1.
i think this is a rule loophole, nothing more.
if a DM is stupid enough to allow a pal1/blg1 as a starting character i would go and look for some other gaming group, simple solution.
if you advance your character to 12th level and hang around with some vampires all night to get leveldrained: no problem with me, have fun playing with your 12th-level-group, i am quite sure you will lose your other 2 levels within a blink.

gs
Funny
JosephKell
02-20-04, 04:28 PM I can admit when I am wrong.

I read the first post as "Can I become a Blackguard at level 2"

To that, "no."

But being a Blackguard at CL 2 because of level drain? Okay... I guess you could be one, it is just as "good" as being a Paladin at level 2 (mostly), but you are evil.

However, if you switch back to logic for a second. How likely is a guy that got level drained from at least character level 11 to just 2 be to surviving the rest of the encounter? (If something can drain 9+ levels, I think it can take out a level 2 PC)

FYI: I don't think I am cool, I think I am a very bitter young man because my life is full of irony, self-loathing and guilt.
nihility
02-20-04, 06:23 PM FYI: I don't think I am cool, I think I am a very bitter young man because my life is full of irony, self-loathing and guilt. Doesn't that mean that you're cool?
JosephKell
02-20-04, 07:10 PM Originally posted by nihility
Doesn't that mean that you're cool? I think it means two things.

1. That I am a hair dying, skin bleaching, and dark clothing shopping trip away from being a fake goth.

2. The topic of this thread is slipping because you only responded to the list important part of a post.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Curious 02-20-04, 02:05 AM	Consider the following: Ex-Paladin 10, takes a level of Blackguard. This allows him to trade levels of ex-Paladin for levels of Blackguard, becoming a Ex-Paladin 1, BlackGuard 10 His levels are drained, he becomes: Ex-Paladin 1 / BlackGuard 1 Go ahead from there - but is there any build that could use access to the PrC at level 2?
JosephKell 02-20-04, 02:12 AM	Look at the prequisites for the Blackguard, if someone has enough skill ranks, feats, and Base Attack Bonus (+5) after only level 1 to meet or beat those, then yes. They can go Whatever 1/Blackguard 1 at Character Level 2. FYI: The answer is an emphatic "NO."
catharz 02-20-04, 02:48 AM	Originally posted by JosephKell Look at the prequisites for the Blackguard, if someone has enough skill ranks, feats, and Base Attack Bonus (+5) after only level 1 to meet or beat those, then yes. They can go Whatever 1/Blackguard 1 at Character Level 2. FYI: The answer is an emphatic "NO." JK, what exactly is your point? Originally posted by Curious Go ahead from there - but is there any build that could use access to the PrC at level 2? There are probably plenty of builds that could benefit, but it isn't worth min/maxing: loosing nine levels just sucks. The 'best' thing to do from Pal 1/Blk 10 is to just advance that, and be happy that you get 19 levels of PrCs in 20 levels (possibly 21 at level 21!). If, by unfortunate circumstance you do get level drained, Blackguard 7 is still the best cut-off next to 10. 4th level spells gets you nito Nar demonbinder, which you can advance with Arcane trickster :drool: A Pal 1/Blk 7/ND 2/Arcane trickster 10 = 7th level ND casting, 9th level Blk casting, great Sneak attack, great skills, and epic ready. Of course, Blk 10 and more meele-type casses for BAB+16 might be even better. Depends on your style.
Laelenie 02-20-04, 04:50 AM	Originally posted by JosephKell Look at the prequisites for the Blackguard, if someone has enough skill ranks, feats, and Base Attack Bonus (+5) after only level 1 to meet or beat those, then yes. They can go Whatever 1/Blackguard 1 at Character Level 2. FYI: The answer is an emphatic "NO." JK. You think you are cool. You think you are right. You think you are good at min/maxing. You think you can shout out with size 7 posts. But you should start reading the rules and other members' posts. From the SRD: " Fallen Paladins Fallen Paladins Blackguards who have levels in the paladin class (that is to say, are now ex-paladins) gain extra abilities the more levels of paladin they have. A fallen paladin who becomes a blackguard gains all of the following abilities that apply, according to the number of paladin levels the character has. 1–2: Smite good 1/day. (This is in addition to the ability granted to all blackguards at 2nd level. 3–4: Lay on hands. Once per day, the blackguard can use this supernatural ability to cure himself or his fiendish servant of damage equal to his Charisma bonus x his level. 5–6: Sneak attack damage increased by +1d6. Smite good 2/day. 7–8: Fiendish summoning. Once per day, the blackguard can use a summon monster I spell to call forth an evil creature. For this spell, the caster level is double the blackguard’s class level. 9–10: Undead companion. In addition to the fiendish servant, the blackguard gains (at 5th level) a Medium-size skeleton or zombie as a companion. This companion cannot be turned or rebuked and gains all special bonuses as a fiendish servant when the blackguard gains levels. Smite good 3/day. 11 or more: A fallen paladin of this stature immediately gains a blackguard level for each level of paladin he trades in. The character level of the character does not change. With the loss of paladin levels, the character no longer gains as many extra abilities for being a fallen paladin. " Yes he is WRONG cause the maximum possible is Paladin 2/Blkguard 10, you cannot "lose" levels it specifically says your CL does not change. Still you have grossly misunderstood. Think before posting. And think befor putting size 7 comments in your post. Word.
strenoth 02-20-04, 04:58 AM	With the new rule that no longer meeting prerequisites for a PrC doesn't mean loosing the PrC abilities. I guess you can do spirit-of-the-rules breaking stuff like that, but IMC I would never let any character drop their total non-blackguard levels to the point where the BaB would be less than +5 w/o black guard levels. Anyway, given the situation you propose (technicalities of if you can get there asside), and you are playing in the Forgotten Realms, there was a kinda nice Domination oriented PrC for Bane if I remember correctly. Just take leadership when you reach 6th (5 levels of black guard) level again, and what ever the other prerequites are, and you can actually get into the class with a full BaB by level 7 I think. Don't remember the PrC's details, but it was in a dragon magazine. Fun if you want to play the Dark Knight type and actually have more than 1 Cohort type NPC.
Funny Slaughter 02-20-04, 05:24 AM	With the new rule that no longer meeting prerequisites for a PrC doesn't mean loosing the PrC abilities. can you give a reference for this? if not, read CW p. 16 left paragraph. in my opinion the trade-in of paladin-levels is a bad idea by design and quite unclear. lets say a paladin 11 loses his faith and qualifies for the blakguard-PrC. if you say that the level-trade forms an exception in regards of meeting PrC-prerequisites you can trade 10 levels in and you could become a level-drained pal1/blg1. i think this is a rule loophole, nothing more. if a DM is stupid enough to allow a pal1/blg1 as a starting character i would go and look for some other gaming group, simple solution. if you advance your character to 12th level and hang around with some vampires all night to get leveldrained: no problem with me, have fun playing with your 12th-level-group, i am quite sure you will lose your other 2 levels within a blink. gs Funny
JosephKell 02-20-04, 04:28 PM	I can admit when I am wrong. I read the first post as "Can I become a Blackguard at level 2" To that, "no." But being a Blackguard at CL 2 because of level drain? Okay... I guess you could be one, it is just as "good" as being a Paladin at level 2 (mostly), but you are evil. However, if you switch back to logic for a second. How likely is a guy that got level drained from at least character level 11 to just 2 be to surviving the rest of the encounter? (If something can drain 9+ levels, I think it can take out a level 2 PC) FYI: I don't think I am cool, I think I am a very bitter young man because my life is full of irony, self-loathing and guilt.
nihility 02-20-04, 06:23 PM	FYI: I don't think I am cool, I think I am a very bitter young man because my life is full of irony, self-loathing and guilt. Doesn't that mean that you're cool?
JosephKell 02-20-04, 07:10 PM	Originally posted by nihility Doesn't that mean that you're cool? I think it means two things. 1. That I am a hair dying, skin bleaching, and dark clothing shopping trip away from being a fake goth. 2. The topic of this thread is slipping because you only responded to the list important part of a post.