Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Pallin Rahl 06-23-06, 12:00 PM	I have a nifty concept for an NPC in an upcoming campaign of mine... Basically, to capture what I'm trying to with her, I'd like her to at least dip into both the Dervish and Shadowdancer PrCs... (and she'll be using one of those double-scimitars from Eberron). She will likely play a part over time in the campaign, so I'm building her through level 20... as she'll advance over time. The first time the PCs will probably encounter her is around level 9 or so... Though the character doesn't need to be optimized, I was just curious if there are any nice optimizations you might suggest, mixing Dervish and Shadowdancer? Any suggestions appreciated. :)
PhoenixInferno 06-23-06, 12:07 PM	If you're using a Double Scimitar, why not use Revenant Blade (Player's Guide to Eberron)? Its sick. Anyway, Shadowdancer isn't all that great except for relatively fast access to Hide in Plain Sight.
Pallin Rahl 06-23-06, 12:24 PM	If you're using a Double Scimitar, why not use Revenant Blade (Player's Guide to Eberron)? Its sick. Anyway, Shadowdancer isn't all that great except for relatively fast access to Hide in Plain Sight. Yeah, generally speaking Shadowdancer is not a "powerful" optimizing class... I was asking this more in a tone of "How would you suggest building a relatively optimized Dervish / Shadowdancer, if indeed dipping Shadowdancer was a requirement" :) A 1-level dip looks like it would be OK for hide in plain sight. ...2 gives you evasion, darkvision, and uncanny dodge (don't have my book on me at the moment, don't remember if Dervish gives you evasion or uncanny dodge). ...4 gives you shadow jump. Hmm... I don't remember thinking the Revenant Blade was that hot last I read it (only read it quickly once, as I don't personally own the book)... but admittedly I could just be remembering it wrong. ...will definitely look into it. ;)
PhoenixInferno 06-23-06, 12:36 PM	A 1-level dip looks like it would be OK for hide in plain sight. ...2 gives you evasion, darkvision, and uncanny dodge (don't have my book on me at the moment, don't remember if Dervish gives you evasion or uncanny dodge). ...4 gives you shadow jump. Hmm...Shadowdancer 2 is about as far as I've ever seen anyone recommend. I don't remember thinking the Revenant Blade was that hot last I read it (only read it quickly once, as I don't personally own the book)... but admittedly I could just be remembering it wrong. ...will definitely look into it. ;)3 bonus floating feats (from a set list), 1.5xSTR and 2:1 PA while TWF is good for you, if not disturbingly broken.
Zedraikis 06-23-06, 12:42 PM	Yeah, generally speaking Shadowdancer is not a "powerful" optimizing class... I was asking this more in a tone of "How would you suggest building a relatively optimized Dervish / Shadowdancer, if indeed dipping Shadowdancer was a requirement" :) A 1-level dip looks like it would be OK for hide in plain sight. ...2 gives you evasion, darkvision, and uncanny dodge (don't have my book on me at the moment, don't remember if Dervish gives you evasion or uncanny dodge). ...4 gives you shadow jump. Hmm... I don't remember thinking the Revenant Blade was that hot last I read it (only read it quickly once, as I don't personally own the book)... but admittedly I could just be remembering it wrong. ...will definitely look into it. ;) If I had to? I'd take a single dip in it for Hide In Plain Sight, then never look back at it. Uncanny Dodge and Evasion can be acquired by levels in Rogue or Scout, which are by far better classes to be taking levels in. Everything else the Shadowdancer PrC has to offer is essentially useless to a Dervish. Revenant Blade... not that hot? ... Yeah, you're remembering it wrong. Read it again. Rng 3/Ftr 2/RvB 5/Dvh 10. This build is a whirling frenzy of havoc and mayhem. Anything in it's way is going to need a lot of band-aids.
Pallin Rahl 06-23-06, 12:47 PM	Regarding Revenant Blade... 3 bonus floating feats (from a set list), 1.5xSTR and 2:1 PA while TWF is good for you, if not disturbingly broken. ...yes, yes it is. :blink: I must be thinking of another class that I skimmed from Eberron, as I can't see myself reading that and thinking it wasn't that good... I'll definitely look into Revenant Blade now :) Hmmm... crap, that means I'll have to either lose out on something by cutting Dervish or Revenant Blade short ...or change the character conceptually to drop out Shadowdancer (something that I didn't particularly want to do)... Fighter 5 (as a base to get into things) Dervish 10 (yummy final ability) Shadowdancer 2 (character concept ...hide in plain sight, evasion, darkvision, uncanny dodge) Revenant Blade 5 (more awesome goodies ...Revenant Blade is a 5-level PrC right?) Ouch... heh :)
PhoenixInferno 06-23-06, 12:52 PM	Fighter 5? C'mon - you know better than that. Ranger 3/Fighter 2.
Zedraikis 06-23-06, 12:56 PM	Fighter 5? No. Fighter 4, at most. 5th level Fighter does absolutely nothing for you. Either Ranger 3/Fighter 2, as I said in my previous post, or Swashbuckler 3/Fighter 2.
Pallin Rahl 06-23-06, 12:58 PM	Yeah, yeah... ;) ...it's early, the optimization portion of my brain is still half-asleep lol :D So I guess that's the long & short of it then... just play up any shadow-feel to the character via a magic item or two and then go: Ranger 3 / Fighter 2 / Dervish 10 / Revenant Blade 5
Pallin Rahl 06-23-06, 02:09 PM	Hmmm... Think it would be worth sacrificing something to add Tempest into the mix somehow? ...I'm assuming not, as I kinda like the final Dervish ability and (as you mention) all 5 levels of Revenant Blade rock... Still figured I'd ask, just in case there's some other optimization path that works well using Tempest and sacrificing something esle... If not, I'm cool with the full Dervish & R.Blade :)
LogicNinja 06-23-06, 02:34 PM	Tempest basically gives you 2 AB and 3 AC. Is that really worth 5 class levels? Never you mind the Tempest.
Zedraikis 06-23-06, 02:36 PM	Hmmm... Think it would be worth sacrificing something to add Tempest into the mix somehow? ...I'm assuming not, as I kinda like the final Dervish ability and (as you mention) all 5 levels of Revenant Blade rock... Still figured I'd ask, just in case there's some other optimization path that works well using Tempest and sacrificing something esle... If not, I'm cool with the full Dervish & R.Blade :) My opinion? Don't bother. The Tempest PrC may synergize well with the Dervish, but for the cost of five levels, there are better classes and PrCs worth taking over it for better abilities. Swa 3/Ftr 2/Drv 10/Tmp 5 is the standard Dervish-Tempest build. Revenant Blade > Tempest.
PhoenixInferno 06-23-06, 02:38 PM	Y'know, if you really wanted the feats, I might go Fighter 6/Dervish 7/Shadowdancer 2/Revenant Blade 5. A Thousand Cuts is cool, but its really Dervish Dance that makes the class.