anyone who knows a great wizard build(different variants). [Archive] - Wizards Community

anyone who knows a great wizard build(different variants). [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
klode_me
08-24-05, 09:11 AM i know this may be somewhere on these boards, but with the search funktion off it is a bit difficult to find so:

anyone who knows a great wizard build(different variants, which means defferent specializations and races mix(+ those from UnArc.).

if anyone think that i am shifting again then yes, but not the same place as before(my DM says that he needs a wizard).
Shandrakor
08-24-05, 09:32 AM Abjurer o' Doom:
Abjurer 5/Mindbender 1/Geometer 2/Fatespinner 2/IotSV 7/Archmage 3

Master o' Metamagic:
Specialist Wizard of Choice 5/Incantatrix 10/Halruaan Elder 5

Killer Gnome:
Illusionist 5/Shadow Adept 1/Mindbender 1/Shadowcraft Mage 5/Shadowcrafter 8.
Malfean
08-24-05, 09:50 AM Shanadrakor has the three main powerful wizard builds. I would avoid putting minbender and geometer in the same build though. They require 6 cross class skills at 4, that's too much IMO.
Also i wouldn't agree on using a specialist wizard for the first two builds.

The builds could be presented(if you don't like Mindbender with lots of cross class skills).

Wizard6/Geometer4/7Sevenfold Veil Initiative/3 archmage

Wizard6/Incantrix10/Archmage4

Illusionist5/Harper Mage(or shadow adept2)2/Shadowcraft Mage5/Shadowcrafter8 (this is Snow's Build) requires you to be a gnome, unless the adapation option is used.
Shandrakor
08-24-05, 10:03 AM Also i wouldn't agree on using a specialist wizard for the first two builds.Ordinarily, neither would I.

anyone who knows a great wizard build(different variants, which means defferent specializations and races mix(+ those from UnArc.)
The OP wanted Specialists.... ::Shrugs:: I reckon that's a mistake for the first two as well, but what the DM wants, the DM wants. For the first two, I'd actually prefer to be a Grey Elf Generalist Wiz using the Oh-So-Broken 1st and 3rd (I think..could be off on the exact levels) Racial Sub Levels. The ones that give you an extra highest-level spell/day and double the effect of your familiar.
klode_me
08-24-05, 10:22 AM For the first two, I'd actually prefer to be a Grey Elf Generalist Wiz using the Oh-So-Broken 1st and 3rd (I think..could be off on the exact levels) Racial Sub Levels. The ones that give you an extra highest-level spell/day and double the effect of your familiar.

where are those racial levels?
Malfean
08-24-05, 10:22 AM Ah i see, my mistake. Anyway i prsented the typical builds :) .
I also think i must take a look at that ef-wizard sub levels, i have seen them mentioned at least twice. They are in Races of the wild, right?
Erudite
08-24-05, 11:10 AM Correct, RotW for the elf stuff.

I'll post this one, not because it is the best wizard, but because it is the best way to get to be a Magelord...

Magelord Build:
Wizard 5/Divine Oracle 2/Ruathar 3( or Mindbender 1/Geometer 2)/Magelord 10

You have no free feats until you hit level 12, and you should be human or take Flaws.
aod318
08-26-05, 12:20 PM If you want to be really different, the Beholder Mage PrC is crazy. Ya gotta be a beholder though. Hmmm…
Shandrakor
08-26-05, 03:05 PM If you want to be really different, the Beholder Mage PrC is crazy. Ya gotta be a beholder though. Hmmm…
WOW... Just... wow. That's possibly the greatest PrC ever. Hmm...

The SS Ritual of Transformation can make you a beholder for purposes of qualifying for a PrC. The kicker is Special: Must put out central antimagic eye. So how does one obtain an antimagic eye, short of Wish? If you do have to use Wish, how would you word it so as to gain the eye but avoid actually becoming a beholder?
jameswilliamogle
08-26-05, 03:33 PM i don't think it actually says that it has to be your antimagic eye... lol.
Erudite
08-26-05, 05:25 PM I do not have Lords of Madness, but could you not cook up some sort of Beholder graft, and then put that out?
PhaedrusXY
08-26-05, 05:31 PM i don't think it actually says that it has to be your antimagic eye... lol. :heehee
I do not have Lords of Madness, but could you not cook up some sort of Beholder graft, and then put that out? Hmm... I can't remember for sure, but I think there is an antimagic beholder graft in the fiend folio. (Or maybe it was some other book. I haven't looked at LoM, so I have no idea on that one.)
WizardlyFriend
08-26-05, 05:41 PM what's the attraction to mindbender? i don't see it. 4 cross class skills isn't worht it to get telepathy. i think that that level can be spent elsewhere, i never really understood why people wanted it anyway.

EDIT: to answer the OP question everyone has a preference. my favorite build is either:
Wizard 6/Geometer 3/IotSV 7/Archmage 4 (or geometer 5/archmage 2)

Wizard 5/Divine Oracle 3/Fatespinner 5 (or 4 if you don't want to lose the level drop)/and then divide the rest b/t loremaster and harper mage, i usually just do loremaster till 20th level so that i can start taking epic loremaster by 24
Erudite
08-26-05, 05:47 PM :heehee
Hmm... I can't remember for sure, but I think there is an antimagic beholder graft in the fiend folio. (Or maybe it was some other book. I haven't looked at LoM, so I have no idea on that one.)

Found it! Fiend Folio, page 209. Third Eye graft, 165,000 gp. Reproduces the central eye, complete with AMF. The cost is prohibitive, though, delaying entry until later levels.

Of course, you will need 10 Eyestalk grafts to use the Beholder Mage abilities, at 195,000 gp each. Best saved for epic.
Snow Savant
08-26-05, 06:48 PM what's the attraction to mindbender? i don't see it. 4 cross class skills isn't worht it to get telepathy. i think that that level can be spent elsewhere, i never really understood why people wanted it anyway.
Go Harper Mage first. Which entails, like, no effort at all. Once in HM, Mindbender is child's play to enter (skill requirements that is).

Mindbender-1 is just pure no-brainerism. 2 good saves too, mind you. Note the 2 bad puns in the prior 2 sentences?
WizardlyFriend
08-26-05, 07:19 PM Go Harper Mage first. Which entails, like, no effort at all. Once in HM, Mindbender is child's play to enter (skill requirements that is).

Mindbender-1 is just pure no-brainerism. 2 good saves too, mind you. Note the 2 bad puns in the prior 2 sentences?

two good saves and telepathy. i don't see what makes that better than a level in any of the other PrC mentioned: IotSV, loremaster, HM, geometer, incantrix, and fatespinner

actually i think it is worse, the fort save is the only thing that might bring it up
Shandrakor
08-26-05, 08:31 PM two good saves and telepathy. i don't see what makes that better than a level in any of the other PrC mentioned: IotSV, loremaster, HM, geometer, incantrix, and fatespinner Because when combined with the Mindsight feat, you automatically detect creatures with an Int score within 100'. NEVER be surprised again.

Oh, and did I mention it's Telepathy? :D
Agitator1
08-26-05, 08:45 PM What book is the Mindsight feat in?
Craig C.
08-26-05, 08:49 PM two good saves and telepathy. i don't see what makes that better than a level in any of the other PrC mentioned: IotSV, loremaster, HM, geometer, incantrix, and fatespinner

actually i think it is worse, the fort save is the only thing that might bring it upYou gotta be kidding me. :uh-huh: Do you have any idea what kind of utility and tricks you can pull off with mindbender's Telepathy? Like when your wizard has to scout invisibily. Or has charmed or summoned monsters at his beck and call. Suprise factor, surprise factor, surprise factor. you can also communicate with your party's wildshaped druid. or your familiar who is waiting for a quiet trigger sign to set something on fire or start an ambush or whatever. Telepathy is STRONG.
Shandrakor
08-26-05, 08:53 PM What book is the Mindsight feat in?
LoM 126 (IIRC)
ninjarabbit
08-26-05, 09:37 PM what's the attraction to mindbender? i don't see it. 4 cross class skills isn't worht it to get telepathy. i think that that level can be spent elsewhere, i never really understood why people wanted it anyway.

In addition to all the other reasons mentioned it serves as a great way for a wizard to get into ur-priest faster because of the +2 fort and having bluff as a class skill. A wizard5/mindbender1/ur-priest2/mystictheurge8/x4 is pretty powerful.
WizardlyFriend
08-26-05, 10:37 PM i understand the ur-priest reason.

so the justifications so far listed are:
ur-priest
telepathy
enemies never surprise you

i knew about ur-priest, but this is a wizard build, there are spells that grant telepathy. the only reason i can think of entering this instead of taking levels in another PrC for a wizard is the last reason which requires a feat.
Shandrakor
08-26-05, 11:00 PM i understand the ur-priest reason.

so the justifications so far listed are:
ur-priest
telepathy
enemies never surprise you
That's not quite accurate. You can still be surprised by mindless creatures; some undead, oozes, constructs, etc. However, the likelihood of being surprised goes way down.
Erudite
08-27-05, 01:36 AM The only reason I would not take Mind Bender is if I am playing a good wizard. Telepathy and +2 Fortitude is too good to pass up. Well, some builds don't leave room for MB 1, but it is like Sacred Exorcist for a Sorcerer. Take it if there is nothing more pressing.
Shandrakor
08-27-05, 01:51 AM If I wanted to play a good wizard, I'd have an alignment shift after taking the PrC. Was there ever a definitive answer regarding the loss of class features if you lost one of the prerequisites for entry?
Erudite
08-27-05, 02:58 AM I believe as a general rule you lose those class features.
Shandrakor
08-27-05, 04:32 PM I believe as a general rule you lose those class features.
You keep BAB & saves gained though, right?
Erudite
08-28-05, 03:14 AM Yes, since BAB and Saves and Skills, while part of the class, are not class features, they are part of every character. But you would lose the otherstuff.
Erudite
08-28-05, 03:32 AM Someone had mentioned entry into Eldritch Knight at 2nd level. I forgot your identity, and browsing about, could not find your post. Please PM me so I can include your name for proper credit.

Using that idea...A nice combination of Wizard and Ranger:

Illumian with Improved Sigin (Krau) and Precocious Apprentice, Sacred Vow, Vow of Obedience, and Extend Spell

Wiz1/Eldritch Knight 4/Harper Mage 1/ Spellsword1/Ruathar3/ Harper Paragon 10/

BAB +14
SAVES +10/+11/+16
HD 2d4+5d6+3d8+10d10
Free Feats: 2
Good skills.
Bardic Knowledge 11
Favored Enemy
Animal Companion
Lots of other goodies.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
klode_me 08-24-05, 09:11 AM	i know this may be somewhere on these boards, but with the search funktion off it is a bit difficult to find so: anyone who knows a great wizard build(different variants, which means defferent specializations and races mix(+ those from UnArc.). if anyone think that i am shifting again then yes, but not the same place as before(my DM says that he needs a wizard).
Shandrakor 08-24-05, 09:32 AM	Abjurer o' Doom: Abjurer 5/Mindbender 1/Geometer 2/Fatespinner 2/IotSV 7/Archmage 3 Master o' Metamagic: Specialist Wizard of Choice 5/Incantatrix 10/Halruaan Elder 5 Killer Gnome: Illusionist 5/Shadow Adept 1/Mindbender 1/Shadowcraft Mage 5/Shadowcrafter 8.
Malfean 08-24-05, 09:50 AM	Shanadrakor has the three main powerful wizard builds. I would avoid putting minbender and geometer in the same build though. They require 6 cross class skills at 4, that's too much IMO. Also i wouldn't agree on using a specialist wizard for the first two builds. The builds could be presented(if you don't like Mindbender with lots of cross class skills). Wizard6/Geometer4/7Sevenfold Veil Initiative/3 archmage Wizard6/Incantrix10/Archmage4 Illusionist5/Harper Mage(or shadow adept2)2/Shadowcraft Mage5/Shadowcrafter8 (this is Snow's Build) requires you to be a gnome, unless the adapation option is used.
Shandrakor 08-24-05, 10:03 AM	Also i wouldn't agree on using a specialist wizard for the first two builds.Ordinarily, neither would I. anyone who knows a great wizard build(different variants, which means defferent specializations and races mix(+ those from UnArc.) The OP wanted Specialists.... ::Shrugs:: I reckon that's a mistake for the first two as well, but what the DM wants, the DM wants. For the first two, I'd actually prefer to be a Grey Elf Generalist Wiz using the Oh-So-Broken 1st and 3rd (I think..could be off on the exact levels) Racial Sub Levels. The ones that give you an extra highest-level spell/day and double the effect of your familiar.
klode_me 08-24-05, 10:22 AM	For the first two, I'd actually prefer to be a Grey Elf Generalist Wiz using the Oh-So-Broken 1st and 3rd (I think..could be off on the exact levels) Racial Sub Levels. The ones that give you an extra highest-level spell/day and double the effect of your familiar. where are those racial levels?
Malfean 08-24-05, 10:22 AM	Ah i see, my mistake. Anyway i prsented the typical builds :) . I also think i must take a look at that ef-wizard sub levels, i have seen them mentioned at least twice. They are in Races of the wild, right?
Erudite 08-24-05, 11:10 AM	Correct, RotW for the elf stuff. I'll post this one, not because it is the best wizard, but because it is the best way to get to be a Magelord... Magelord Build: Wizard 5/Divine Oracle 2/Ruathar 3( or Mindbender 1/Geometer 2)/Magelord 10 You have no free feats until you hit level 12, and you should be human or take Flaws.
aod318 08-26-05, 12:20 PM	If you want to be really different, the Beholder Mage PrC is crazy. Ya gotta be a beholder though. Hmmm…
Shandrakor 08-26-05, 03:05 PM	If you want to be really different, the Beholder Mage PrC is crazy. Ya gotta be a beholder though. Hmmm… WOW... Just... wow. That's possibly the greatest PrC ever. Hmm... The SS Ritual of Transformation can make you a beholder for purposes of qualifying for a PrC. The kicker is Special: Must put out central antimagic eye. So how does one obtain an antimagic eye, short of Wish? If you do have to use Wish, how would you word it so as to gain the eye but avoid actually becoming a beholder?
jameswilliamogle 08-26-05, 03:33 PM	i don't think it actually says that it has to be your antimagic eye... lol.
Erudite 08-26-05, 05:25 PM	I do not have Lords of Madness, but could you not cook up some sort of Beholder graft, and then put that out?
PhaedrusXY 08-26-05, 05:31 PM	i don't think it actually says that it has to be your antimagic eye... lol. :heehee I do not have Lords of Madness, but could you not cook up some sort of Beholder graft, and then put that out? Hmm... I can't remember for sure, but I think there is an antimagic beholder graft in the fiend folio. (Or maybe it was some other book. I haven't looked at LoM, so I have no idea on that one.)
WizardlyFriend 08-26-05, 05:41 PM	what's the attraction to mindbender? i don't see it. 4 cross class skills isn't worht it to get telepathy. i think that that level can be spent elsewhere, i never really understood why people wanted it anyway. EDIT: to answer the OP question everyone has a preference. my favorite build is either: Wizard 6/Geometer 3/IotSV 7/Archmage 4 (or geometer 5/archmage 2) Wizard 5/Divine Oracle 3/Fatespinner 5 (or 4 if you don't want to lose the level drop)/and then divide the rest b/t loremaster and harper mage, i usually just do loremaster till 20th level so that i can start taking epic loremaster by 24
Erudite 08-26-05, 05:47 PM	:heehee Hmm... I can't remember for sure, but I think there is an antimagic beholder graft in the fiend folio. (Or maybe it was some other book. I haven't looked at LoM, so I have no idea on that one.) Found it! Fiend Folio, page 209. Third Eye graft, 165,000 gp. Reproduces the central eye, complete with AMF. The cost is prohibitive, though, delaying entry until later levels. Of course, you will need 10 Eyestalk grafts to use the Beholder Mage abilities, at 195,000 gp each. Best saved for epic.
Snow Savant 08-26-05, 06:48 PM	what's the attraction to mindbender? i don't see it. 4 cross class skills isn't worht it to get telepathy. i think that that level can be spent elsewhere, i never really understood why people wanted it anyway. Go Harper Mage first. Which entails, like, no effort at all. Once in HM, Mindbender is child's play to enter (skill requirements that is). Mindbender-1 is just pure no-brainerism. 2 good saves too, mind you. Note the 2 bad puns in the prior 2 sentences?
WizardlyFriend 08-26-05, 07:19 PM	Go Harper Mage first. Which entails, like, no effort at all. Once in HM, Mindbender is child's play to enter (skill requirements that is). Mindbender-1 is just pure no-brainerism. 2 good saves too, mind you. Note the 2 bad puns in the prior 2 sentences? two good saves and telepathy. i don't see what makes that better than a level in any of the other PrC mentioned: IotSV, loremaster, HM, geometer, incantrix, and fatespinner actually i think it is worse, the fort save is the only thing that might bring it up
Shandrakor 08-26-05, 08:31 PM	two good saves and telepathy. i don't see what makes that better than a level in any of the other PrC mentioned: IotSV, loremaster, HM, geometer, incantrix, and fatespinner Because when combined with the Mindsight feat, you automatically detect creatures with an Int score within 100'. NEVER be surprised again. Oh, and did I mention it's Telepathy? :D
Agitator1 08-26-05, 08:45 PM	What book is the Mindsight feat in?
Craig C. 08-26-05, 08:49 PM	two good saves and telepathy. i don't see what makes that better than a level in any of the other PrC mentioned: IotSV, loremaster, HM, geometer, incantrix, and fatespinner actually i think it is worse, the fort save is the only thing that might bring it upYou gotta be kidding me. :uh-huh: Do you have any idea what kind of utility and tricks you can pull off with mindbender's Telepathy? Like when your wizard has to scout invisibily. Or has charmed or summoned monsters at his beck and call. Suprise factor, surprise factor, surprise factor. you can also communicate with your party's wildshaped druid. or your familiar who is waiting for a quiet trigger sign to set something on fire or start an ambush or whatever. Telepathy is STRONG.
Shandrakor 08-26-05, 08:53 PM	What book is the Mindsight feat in? LoM 126 (IIRC)
ninjarabbit 08-26-05, 09:37 PM	what's the attraction to mindbender? i don't see it. 4 cross class skills isn't worht it to get telepathy. i think that that level can be spent elsewhere, i never really understood why people wanted it anyway. In addition to all the other reasons mentioned it serves as a great way for a wizard to get into ur-priest faster because of the +2 fort and having bluff as a class skill. A wizard5/mindbender1/ur-priest2/mystictheurge8/x4 is pretty powerful.
WizardlyFriend 08-26-05, 10:37 PM	i understand the ur-priest reason. so the justifications so far listed are: ur-priest telepathy enemies never surprise you i knew about ur-priest, but this is a wizard build, there are spells that grant telepathy. the only reason i can think of entering this instead of taking levels in another PrC for a wizard is the last reason which requires a feat.
Shandrakor 08-26-05, 11:00 PM	i understand the ur-priest reason. so the justifications so far listed are: ur-priest telepathy enemies never surprise you That's not quite accurate. You can still be surprised by mindless creatures; some undead, oozes, constructs, etc. However, the likelihood of being surprised goes way down.
Erudite 08-27-05, 01:36 AM	The only reason I would not take Mind Bender is if I am playing a good wizard. Telepathy and +2 Fortitude is too good to pass up. Well, some builds don't leave room for MB 1, but it is like Sacred Exorcist for a Sorcerer. Take it if there is nothing more pressing.
Shandrakor 08-27-05, 01:51 AM	If I wanted to play a good wizard, I'd have an alignment shift after taking the PrC. Was there ever a definitive answer regarding the loss of class features if you lost one of the prerequisites for entry?
Erudite 08-27-05, 02:58 AM	I believe as a general rule you lose those class features.
Shandrakor 08-27-05, 04:32 PM	I believe as a general rule you lose those class features. You keep BAB & saves gained though, right?
Erudite 08-28-05, 03:14 AM	Yes, since BAB and Saves and Skills, while part of the class, are not class features, they are part of every character. But you would lose the otherstuff.
Erudite 08-28-05, 03:32 AM	Someone had mentioned entry into Eldritch Knight at 2nd level. I forgot your identity, and browsing about, could not find your post. Please PM me so I can include your name for proper credit. Using that idea...A nice combination of Wizard and Ranger: Illumian with Improved Sigin (Krau) and Precocious Apprentice, Sacred Vow, Vow of Obedience, and Extend Spell Wiz1/Eldritch Knight 4/Harper Mage 1/ Spellsword1/Ruathar3/ Harper Paragon 10/ BAB +14 SAVES +10/+11/+16 HD 2d4+5d6+3d8+10d10 Free Feats: 2 Good skills. Bardic Knowledge 11 Favored Enemy Animal Companion Lots of other goodies.