Anyspell, arcane or divine spells? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Anyspell, arcane or divine spells? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
BarbeChenue
01-10-06, 04:26 AM Anyspell has been reprinted in the Spell Compendium, and is no longer Faerun-specific.

The description is the same as the one is the FRCS, so when you cast the arcane spell, it is treated just as if it had been cast by a Wizard of your Cleric level, except that wisdom instead of Int/Cha governs it.

Is this so called "arcane" spell (and they keep calling it "arcane" in the book), really an "Arcane" spell, or is it a "Divine" spell?

Consequences:

If the spell is completely arcane, then this opens up interesting options like:

Human Cleric 5/Sorcerer/True Necromancer 5/Mystic Theurge 9

Who qualifies for True Necromancer because he can cast "Command Undead" as an Arcane spell, and has the Death and Spell domains.

Divine Spellcaster level 18 (9th level spells), can get to CL 20 with Practiced Spellcaster (Cleric)
Arcane Spellcaster level 14 (7th level spells), can get to CL 18 with Practiced Spellcaster (Sorcerer)

Sorcerer is only a preference, for the sake of Cha synergy with Divine Metamagic.

On the other hand, if the spell is completely "Divine" (for all purpose and intent), feats like Divine Metamagic (Persistent) can apply to Draconic Polymorph, or other Arcane spells prepared through Anyspell, or Greater Anyspell.

Synthesis:

A. If Anyspell gives you an arcane spell that is completely Arcane, you could qualify for some prestige classes that require that you cast some spells as "Arcane".

B. On the other hand, if Anyspell gives you an arcane spell that is Divine for all other purposes, then you may apply feats like Divine Metamagic on it.
Esponer
01-10-06, 04:44 AM In my opinion, it looks an awful lot like an arcane spell.
BarbeChenue
01-11-06, 01:52 AM I'd like to have more people's view on the matter.

:bump:
James Wildspell
01-11-06, 03:09 AM I'd like to have more people's view on the matter.

:bump:

Arcane. It starts as Arcane, it stays Arcane, it ends Arcane.
BarbeChenue
01-11-06, 03:43 AM So it should never be used in conjunction with Divine Metamagic, right?
Caelic
01-11-06, 05:06 PM The official word--handed down quite some time ago--is that it remains divine.

And, yes, that means you could use Divine Metamagic on it, or (for instance) use it to get Lightning Bolt as a divine spell and thus qualify for Hexer.
BarbeChenue
01-11-06, 06:16 PM Thanks Caelic! Is that from a FAQ or CustServ, because I never heard of that ruling before, not that I have doubts about your honesty.

With Domain Spontaneity (Spell Domain), one could prepare a lot of Arcane Spells if he has them in a spellbook already. The potential abuse of this is quite incredible, as Anyspell Greater gives access to *all* arcane spells of 5th level or lower.
thorian
01-11-06, 07:32 PM With Domain Spontaneity (Spell Domain), one could prepare a lot of Arcane Spells if he has them in a spellbook already. The potential abuse of this is quite incredible, as Anyspell Greater gives access to *all* arcane spells of 5th level or lower.
It seems like this would be useful in certain situations. I need to make sure it works like I think it does: You would swap out a prepared spell of the proper level, then in its place cast Anyspell or Greater Anyspell. But, casting those spells takes 15 minutes, so this wouldn't be an effective tactic in the middle of battle. You must also spend a turning attempts. The nice thing about it, as you mentioned, is that you could place any 5th level or lower arcane spell in your spells prepared for the day. Persistent Draconic Polymorph and Persistent Empowered Mestil's Acid Sheath (using Empowered Greater Anyspell) sounds good to me.
Esponer
01-11-06, 07:37 PM You need to expend a turning attempt? Is that an update since Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting?

Another question on Anyspell for you all. As written in my copy, it occupies your domain spell slot. What if you gained access to a domain via a class like the contemplative, but never had domain slots in the first place? (i.e. you were never a cleric)
Caelic
01-11-06, 07:41 PM Thanks Caelic! Is that from a FAQ or CustServ, because I never heard of that ruling before, not that I have doubts about your honesty.

I'll have to see if I can find it. The issue needs to be revisited, anyway, with the introduction of Sword of the Arcane Order--we need to know if the Wizard spells memorized in Paladin/Ranger slots are arcane or divine.
Otto the Bugbear
01-11-06, 08:12 PM I'll have to see if I can find it. The issue needs to be revisited, anyway, with the introduction of Sword of the Arcane Order--we need to know if the Wizard spells memorized in Paladin/Ranger slots are arcane or divine.

Didn't it flop back and forth for a bit before landing on one and staying there? I seem to remember that ruling being changed a couple of times.

I know that there was a discussion about how no matter what ruling it landed on, it opened up some interesting options. Probably either the Lightning Bolt as a divine spell or the cast arcane spells of X level without actually having an arcane casting class.

Cheers

Otto :)
thorian
01-11-06, 11:13 PM You need to expend a turning attempt? Is that an update since Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting?Yes. It is updated in Complete Divine, pg. 80.
Another question on Anyspell for you all. As written in my copy, it occupies your domain spell slot. What if you gained access to a domain via a class like the contemplative, but never had domain slots in the first place? (i.e. you were never a cleric)For paladins, druids, etc., they are only allowed to prepare one domain spell per level. For sorcerers or favored souls, they may cast it freely if they choose to learn it as one of their spells known. This is in Complete Divine on page 20, under the Extra Domains heading.
BarbeChenue
01-12-06, 05:42 AM Thanks for the replies! For the moment is it okay to conclude the following:

1. Anyspell grants an arcane spell that may be used with Divine Metamagic as it is still a Divine Spell in essence.

And:

2. That you can't qualify for prestige classes with requirements like "must be able to cast [insert arcane spell below level 2 or 5]" without having a real Arcane Spellcasting class. Spells granted by Anyspell just won't qualify.

?
Esponer
01-12-06, 07:56 AM Yes. It is updated in Complete Divine, pg. 80.

Page 80 of Complete Divine has some divine feats. Nothing about anyspell, which isn't in the spell section either...

For paladins, druids, etc., they are only allowed to prepare one domain spell per level. For sorcerers or favored souls, they may cast it freely if they choose to learn it as one of their spells known. This is in Complete Divine on page 20, under the Extra Domains heading.

Thanks.
ronyon
01-12-06, 08:48 AM Could a cleric who already has Anyspell use Extra Spell to put it on his regular list?
josephk
01-12-06, 09:35 AM I have a sub-question, regarding the anyspells.

How do they function in relation with the warmage? I'm think mainly on taking arcane disciple with the spell domain? Seeing as warmages know all spells on their spell list, and arcane disciple adds the domain spells to the spell list, I cant really see why it wouldnt work.

Of course, using wisdom as the casting attribute is a problem, but really access to all spells in the book(below level 6 of course) is a huge boon, especially for a warmage, regardless. Even if it is only once per day per anyspell.
pfooti
01-12-06, 09:59 AM As a secondary, side-question. Could the spell you prepared using Anyspell be scribed as a (divine) scroll? I ask because of the Archivist, of course. CustServ said no, but it was a fiat ruling rather than one with any particular reason.
Esponer
01-12-06, 10:02 AM Could a cleric who already has Anyspell use Extra Spell to put it on his regular list?

Yes. If I remember rightly, Extra Spell lets you learn any one spell. Unless there was an errata, you could just get the feat to get Anyspell. Don't hold me to that though. Also bear in mind that there is Anyspell, and Greater Anyspell – you'd need two feats, or you'd need to restrict your options.

How do they function in relation with the warmage? I'm think mainly on taking arcane disciple with the spell domain? Seeing as warmages know all spells on their spell list, and arcane disciple adds the domain spells to the spell list, I cant really see why it wouldnt work.

It would work fine, but bear in mind you wouldn't be able to cast your new shiny arcane spells in combat very well due to the casting times and such.
tsuyoshikentsu
01-12-06, 11:05 AM As a secondary, side-question. Could the spell you prepared using Anyspell be scribed as a (divine) scroll? I ask because of the Archivist, of course. CustServ said no, but it was a fiat ruling rather than one with any particular reason.

I think anyspell casts the spell immediately after the completion of the casting of anyspell. Not sure, though, and am far from my books.
Esponer
01-12-06, 11:16 AM As a secondary, side-question. Could the spell you prepared using Anyspell be scribed as a (divine) scroll? I ask because of the Archivist, of course. CustServ said no, but it was a fiat ruling rather than one with any particular reason.

No. Firstly, Scribe Scroll requires that you "know" the spell. While it's not absolutely clear, you technically don't know the arcane spell which anyspell allows you to retain in the slot it occupied. Secondly, Scribe Scroll takes a minimum of one day. You'd have lost the spell by then.
BarbeChenue
01-12-06, 01:00 PM Anyspell requires:

a) A Wizard's spellbook, or a scroll with the arcane spell of choice. If a scroll is chosen, then it is consumed in the process of casting anyspell. Wizard spellbooks remain available for later use and are not consumed.

b) Preperation time of 15 minutes.
pfooti
01-12-06, 01:17 PM No. Firstly, Scribe Scroll requires that you "know" the spell. While it's not absolutely clear, you technically don't know the arcane spell which anyspell allows you to retain in the slot it occupied. Secondly, Scribe Scroll takes a minimum of one day. You'd have lost the spell by then.

The SRD, under scribing scrolls, says: "The creator must have prepared the spell to be scribed (or must know the spell, in the case of a sorcerer or bard) and must provide any material component or focus the spell requires ..."

Also, scrolls take 1 day to create, but that's just 8 hours of working time. I forget the duration of anyspell, but I think that should work just fine.
thorian
01-12-06, 05:52 PM Page 80 of Complete Divine has some divine feats. Nothing about anyspell, which isn't in the spell section either...Sorry, that was in reference to the Domain Spontaneity feat, not Anyspell, which is listed under the Spell domain in the Player's Guide to Faerun (pg. 91), but detailed in the Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting (pg. 67).

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
BarbeChenue 01-10-06, 04:26 AM	Anyspell has been reprinted in the Spell Compendium, and is no longer Faerun-specific. The description is the same as the one is the FRCS, so when you cast the arcane spell, it is treated just as if it had been cast by a Wizard of your Cleric level, except that wisdom instead of Int/Cha governs it. Is this so called "arcane" spell (and they keep calling it "arcane" in the book), really an "Arcane" spell, or is it a "Divine" spell? Consequences: If the spell is completely arcane, then this opens up interesting options like: Human Cleric 5/Sorcerer/True Necromancer 5/Mystic Theurge 9 Who qualifies for True Necromancer because he can cast "Command Undead" as an Arcane spell, and has the Death and Spell domains. Divine Spellcaster level 18 (9th level spells), can get to CL 20 with Practiced Spellcaster (Cleric) Arcane Spellcaster level 14 (7th level spells), can get to CL 18 with Practiced Spellcaster (Sorcerer) Sorcerer is only a preference, for the sake of Cha synergy with Divine Metamagic. On the other hand, if the spell is completely "Divine" (for all purpose and intent), feats like Divine Metamagic (Persistent) can apply to Draconic Polymorph, or other Arcane spells prepared through Anyspell, or Greater Anyspell. Synthesis: A. If Anyspell gives you an arcane spell that is completely Arcane, you could qualify for some prestige classes that require that you cast some spells as "Arcane". B. On the other hand, if Anyspell gives you an arcane spell that is Divine for all other purposes, then you may apply feats like Divine Metamagic on it.
Esponer 01-10-06, 04:44 AM	In my opinion, it looks an awful lot like an arcane spell.
BarbeChenue 01-11-06, 01:52 AM	I'd like to have more people's view on the matter. :bump:
James Wildspell 01-11-06, 03:09 AM	I'd like to have more people's view on the matter. :bump: Arcane. It starts as Arcane, it stays Arcane, it ends Arcane.
BarbeChenue 01-11-06, 03:43 AM	So it should never be used in conjunction with Divine Metamagic, right?
Caelic 01-11-06, 05:06 PM	The official word--handed down quite some time ago--is that it remains divine. And, yes, that means you could use Divine Metamagic on it, or (for instance) use it to get Lightning Bolt as a divine spell and thus qualify for Hexer.
BarbeChenue 01-11-06, 06:16 PM	Thanks Caelic! Is that from a FAQ or CustServ, because I never heard of that ruling before, not that I have doubts about your honesty. With Domain Spontaneity (Spell Domain), one could prepare a lot of Arcane Spells if he has them in a spellbook already. The potential abuse of this is quite incredible, as Anyspell Greater gives access to all arcane spells of 5th level or lower.
thorian 01-11-06, 07:32 PM	With Domain Spontaneity (Spell Domain), one could prepare a lot of Arcane Spells if he has them in a spellbook already. The potential abuse of this is quite incredible, as Anyspell Greater gives access to all arcane spells of 5th level or lower. It seems like this would be useful in certain situations. I need to make sure it works like I think it does: You would swap out a prepared spell of the proper level, then in its place cast Anyspell or Greater Anyspell. But, casting those spells takes 15 minutes, so this wouldn't be an effective tactic in the middle of battle. You must also spend a turning attempts. The nice thing about it, as you mentioned, is that you could place any 5th level or lower arcane spell in your spells prepared for the day. Persistent Draconic Polymorph and Persistent Empowered Mestil's Acid Sheath (using Empowered Greater Anyspell) sounds good to me.
Esponer 01-11-06, 07:37 PM	You need to expend a turning attempt? Is that an update since Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting? Another question on Anyspell for you all. As written in my copy, it occupies your domain spell slot. What if you gained access to a domain via a class like the contemplative, but never had domain slots in the first place? (i.e. you were never a cleric)
Caelic 01-11-06, 07:41 PM	Thanks Caelic! Is that from a FAQ or CustServ, because I never heard of that ruling before, not that I have doubts about your honesty. I'll have to see if I can find it. The issue needs to be revisited, anyway, with the introduction of Sword of the Arcane Order--we need to know if the Wizard spells memorized in Paladin/Ranger slots are arcane or divine.
Otto the Bugbear 01-11-06, 08:12 PM	I'll have to see if I can find it. The issue needs to be revisited, anyway, with the introduction of Sword of the Arcane Order--we need to know if the Wizard spells memorized in Paladin/Ranger slots are arcane or divine. Didn't it flop back and forth for a bit before landing on one and staying there? I seem to remember that ruling being changed a couple of times. I know that there was a discussion about how no matter what ruling it landed on, it opened up some interesting options. Probably either the Lightning Bolt as a divine spell or the cast arcane spells of X level without actually having an arcane casting class. Cheers Otto :)
thorian 01-11-06, 11:13 PM	You need to expend a turning attempt? Is that an update since Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting?Yes. It is updated in Complete Divine, pg. 80. Another question on Anyspell for you all. As written in my copy, it occupies your domain spell slot. What if you gained access to a domain via a class like the contemplative, but never had domain slots in the first place? (i.e. you were never a cleric)For paladins, druids, etc., they are only allowed to prepare one domain spell per level. For sorcerers or favored souls, they may cast it freely if they choose to learn it as one of their spells known. This is in Complete Divine on page 20, under the Extra Domains heading.
BarbeChenue 01-12-06, 05:42 AM	Thanks for the replies! For the moment is it okay to conclude the following: 1. Anyspell grants an arcane spell that may be used with Divine Metamagic as it is still a Divine Spell in essence. And: 2. That you can't qualify for prestige classes with requirements like "must be able to cast [insert arcane spell below level 2 or 5]" without having a real Arcane Spellcasting class. Spells granted by Anyspell just won't qualify. ?
Esponer 01-12-06, 07:56 AM	Yes. It is updated in Complete Divine, pg. 80. Page 80 of Complete Divine has some divine feats. Nothing about anyspell, which isn't in the spell section either... For paladins, druids, etc., they are only allowed to prepare one domain spell per level. For sorcerers or favored souls, they may cast it freely if they choose to learn it as one of their spells known. This is in Complete Divine on page 20, under the Extra Domains heading. Thanks.
ronyon 01-12-06, 08:48 AM	Could a cleric who already has Anyspell use Extra Spell to put it on his regular list?
josephk 01-12-06, 09:35 AM	I have a sub-question, regarding the anyspells. How do they function in relation with the warmage? I'm think mainly on taking arcane disciple with the spell domain? Seeing as warmages know all spells on their spell list, and arcane disciple adds the domain spells to the spell list, I cant really see why it wouldnt work. Of course, using wisdom as the casting attribute is a problem, but really access to all spells in the book(below level 6 of course) is a huge boon, especially for a warmage, regardless. Even if it is only once per day per anyspell.
pfooti 01-12-06, 09:59 AM	As a secondary, side-question. Could the spell you prepared using Anyspell be scribed as a (divine) scroll? I ask because of the Archivist, of course. CustServ said no, but it was a fiat ruling rather than one with any particular reason.
Esponer 01-12-06, 10:02 AM	Could a cleric who already has Anyspell use Extra Spell to put it on his regular list? Yes. If I remember rightly, Extra Spell lets you learn any one spell. Unless there was an errata, you could just get the feat to get Anyspell. Don't hold me to that though. Also bear in mind that there is Anyspell, and Greater Anyspell – you'd need two feats, or you'd need to restrict your options. How do they function in relation with the warmage? I'm think mainly on taking arcane disciple with the spell domain? Seeing as warmages know all spells on their spell list, and arcane disciple adds the domain spells to the spell list, I cant really see why it wouldnt work. It would work fine, but bear in mind you wouldn't be able to cast your new shiny arcane spells in combat very well due to the casting times and such.
tsuyoshikentsu 01-12-06, 11:05 AM	As a secondary, side-question. Could the spell you prepared using Anyspell be scribed as a (divine) scroll? I ask because of the Archivist, of course. CustServ said no, but it was a fiat ruling rather than one with any particular reason. I think anyspell casts the spell immediately after the completion of the casting of anyspell. Not sure, though, and am far from my books.
Esponer 01-12-06, 11:16 AM	As a secondary, side-question. Could the spell you prepared using Anyspell be scribed as a (divine) scroll? I ask because of the Archivist, of course. CustServ said no, but it was a fiat ruling rather than one with any particular reason. No. Firstly, Scribe Scroll requires that you "know" the spell. While it's not absolutely clear, you technically don't know the arcane spell which anyspell allows you to retain in the slot it occupied. Secondly, Scribe Scroll takes a minimum of one day. You'd have lost the spell by then.
BarbeChenue 01-12-06, 01:00 PM	Anyspell requires: a) A Wizard's spellbook, or a scroll with the arcane spell of choice. If a scroll is chosen, then it is consumed in the process of casting anyspell. Wizard spellbooks remain available for later use and are not consumed. b) Preperation time of 15 minutes.
pfooti 01-12-06, 01:17 PM	No. Firstly, Scribe Scroll requires that you "know" the spell. While it's not absolutely clear, you technically don't know the arcane spell which anyspell allows you to retain in the slot it occupied. Secondly, Scribe Scroll takes a minimum of one day. You'd have lost the spell by then. The SRD, under scribing scrolls, says: "The creator must have prepared the spell to be scribed (or must know the spell, in the case of a sorcerer or bard) and must provide any material component or focus the spell requires ..." Also, scrolls take 1 day to create, but that's just 8 hours of working time. I forget the duration of anyspell, but I think that should work just fine.
thorian 01-12-06, 05:52 PM	Page 80 of Complete Divine has some divine feats. Nothing about anyspell, which isn't in the spell section either...Sorry, that was in reference to the Domain Spontaneity feat, not Anyspell, which is listed under the Spell domain in the Player's Guide to Faerun (pg. 91), but detailed in the Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting (pg. 67).