Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Funny Slaughter 02-01-04, 03:04 PM	1. Dear Customer Service, i have a question concerning the spell "anyspell" from the Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting (p.67). With this spell my cleric can prepare on of his spells as an arcane spell. Does this mean my cleric gains the class feature to cast 2nd level arcane spell and would qualify for the Hathran prestige class or any other prestige class with the requirement: able to cast 2nd level arcane spells? Thank you in advance for any answer. Dear David, No, they would actually have to be a minimum 3rd-level wizard... or other class and level combination that would allow them to cast 2nd-level arcane spells. Good Gaming! **************************************** *** Chris Wizards of the Coast - Customer Support Website: <http://www.wizards.com> Game Support Phone: 1-800-324-6496 Monday through Friday, 9 AM - 6 PM PST Corporate Phone: (425) 226-6500 **************************************** *** No, I don't buy it. "Anyspell" is a divine spell. But that's a very sneaky argument. quote:Originally posted by Zechi Dear Rich, i have a question concerning the spell "anyspell" from the Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting (p.67). With this spell my cleric can prepare on of his spells as an arcane spell. Does this mean my cleric gains the class feature to cast 2nd level arcane spell and would qualify for the Hathran prestige class or any other prestige class with the requirement: able to cast 2nd level arcane spells? Thank you in advance for any answer. __________________ Rich Baker Senior Designer Roleplaying R&D Wizards of the Coast, Inc. (see here (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=2452561#post2452561) for the original post) --------------------------------------------------- while the boards were down neonsamurai gave me the URL of a german min/max-board and we both had fun mixing things up there, asking about nar demonbinders, anyspell and stuff. it was great fun to see the resident self-announced "demi-power of min/max" getting into trouble. anyhow, zechi as his nick is asked cust-serv and posted in a QA-thread and got answer, not unlikely for a demipower. dear fellow min/maxers, good to be here together with all the full-powered residents. seems that anyspell is out now, one less interesting loophole but still many to dig into. gs Funny
mean_liar 02-01-04, 03:13 PM	Originally posted by Funny Slaughter dear fellow min/maxers, good to be here together with all the full-powered residents. You know, I never understood why cultists would go for the Demipowers: "Yeah, you know, I thought about worshipping one of the Greater Gods, but I mean, hey, that's a lot of god right there. I kept asking myself, 'Do I need that much god?' And so yeah, thats when I started going for the Demipowers."
Endarire 02-01-04, 03:15 PM	I say we wait for official updates/eratta since CustServ has a legacy of inconsistency. -EE
Stoned Golem 02-01-04, 03:27 PM	On the other hand, if Anyspells remain divine, that means Greater Anyspell gets you into Hexer, and maybe has other advantages too. I see some Clr/MoS/Hex goodness on the horizon.
Caelic 02-01-04, 03:30 PM	Indeed--and this doesn't prevent the use of Anyspell to enable you to cast a specific spell when the type doesn't matter. (For instance, you could still use Anyspell to gain the ability to cast Mage Hand if aiming for Arcane Trickster.)
Snow Savant 02-01-04, 03:34 PM	Interesting .... conflicts the statement made by Sean K. Reynolds that it is legal. And he's the co-author of the book it appeared in. Perhaps Matt Neumann can shed some light on his conversation with him. Although honestly, it makes sense that the called-up Anyspell spell is indeed divine. XO, Snow :cloud9:
Funny Slaughter 02-01-04, 03:49 PM	SKR does not longer work for WotC was told me. i am not surprised that different people have different opinions, even while working for the same company. cust-serv is indeed a weak source, but i think Rich Baker is a viable one on the other hand. getting into hexer is a great idea, i am on the way to shock the demipowers with this new thing ;) gs Funny
Hanniball 02-01-04, 04:31 PM	godspeed on shocking your demipowers FS; i'd recommend at least 10 shocker lizards as cohorts... i've always taken what customer service says with a grain of salt. too many times have they contradicted themselves for me to take anything they say seriously. however, it's the most "official" response we will, more than likely, have access to for quite some time. unfortunate, but true. either way...just my 0.02 cp
catharz 02-01-04, 05:04 PM	Well, even if Anyspell dosen't work, you can get by with Sha'ir 3/Cleric 1, or better yet Sha'ir 3/Shugenja 1 ;)
Vecna 02-01-04, 05:10 PM	Well, try a Sha'ir 3/Mystic Theurge 10: caster level 23! :devil:
Hanniball 02-01-04, 05:17 PM	Well, try a Sha'ir 3/Mystic Theurge 10: caster level 23! ah, the wisdom of the customer service department has already claimed that Sha'irs are arcane casters, not divine. of course, they also told me about a year ago that monkey grip (S&F) allowed you to use a weapon two size categories larger than you in two hands...
Vecna 02-01-04, 05:23 PM	Originally posted by Hanniball ah, the wisdom of the customer service department has already claimed that Sha'irs are arcane casters, not divine. of course, they also told me about a year ago that monkey grip (S&F) allowed you to use a weapon two size categories larger than you in two hands... At least they didn't tell you that Shai'ir are psionic... ;)
Eisgowen 02-01-04, 05:35 PM	where can i find the Shai'ir class at? i recall it a bit from 2nd edition. And am interested in seeing it in 3rd
catharz 02-01-04, 05:44 PM	Originally posted by Eisgowen where can i find the Shai'ir class at? i recall it a bit from 2nd edition. And am interested in seeing it in 3rd Dragon 315, IIRC. And yes, customer service did stomp on my Shair 3/MT 7 hopes and dreams :rolleyes: However, S'r 3/Shu 1/MT 10 is a very nice 13 level build, with 7th level Sha'ir spells and 5th level Shugenja. The remaining 7 levels are best left to Cha-synergy!
Funny Slaughter 02-01-04, 06:53 PM	k, who brings up the first hexer-build using anyspell? ;) gs Funny
Caelic 02-01-04, 07:12 PM	I'll bite. How 'bout a nice, simple Cleric 7/Divine Oracle 4/Hexer 9? Simple, the classes work well together (the mad hermit of the wilderness, muttering prophecies and giving people the evil eye!) and it nets you some nice goodies. +16 BAB, caster level 20, saves of +9/+6/+15, and a fair amount of spell versatility via Anyspell, Greater Anyspell, and four bonus MU spells (probably of levels 7, 8, 9, and 9.)
mean_liar 02-01-04, 07:41 PM	Originally posted by Caelic +16 BAB, caster level 20, saves of +9/+6/+15, and a fair amount of spell versatility via Anyspell, Greater Anyspell, and four bonus MU spells (probably of levels 7, 8, 9, and 9.) Yay! I wonder what the spirit of the rules is regarding this? :D
PhaedrusXY 02-01-04, 08:51 PM	Originally posted by mean_liar Yay! I wonder what the spirit of the rules is regarding this? :D It doesn't matter. It's either one way, or the other. Either Anyspell allows you to cast an "Arcane" spell, or it is still a "Divine" spell. With the former, it opens up Mystic Theurge. With the latter, it opens up Hexer. Either way, the min/maxers still win. :D
Caelic 02-01-04, 08:57 PM	Hey...if they wanted the class to only be open to Adepts, they should've said, "Only open to Adepts" in the prerequisites. This seems like one of the most legitimate ways of qualifying for Hexer out there, to be honest. It doesn't need Dragon magazine material, it doesn't rely on the very vague description of the Geomancer's ability to combine spells, and it doesn't require an Oriental Adventures class that's supposed to be almost entirely human and cosmopolitan, coupled with a class that is entirely nonhuman and primitive.
ksbsnowowl 02-01-04, 08:59 PM	Cleric 7/Master of Shrouds 4/Hexer 9 (or Cleric 7/MoS 5/Hexer 8) of Savras? Don't know what deity w/ Spell domain would be better. BAB +18 Base Saves +9/+6/+15 20 caster levels 5 Domains: Spell, Protection, Death, Evil, and ? Can summon Shadows and Allips Much of the following was also mentioned in Caelic's build - spell versatility through Anyspell, Greater Anyspell, 4 extra arcane spells through hexer of levels 7/8/9/9, and extra spells available through MoS (Magic Jar, Enervation, and many more), and Limited Wish [which through a strict reading allows you to duplicate any sor/wiz spell of 6th level and lower.]
Caelic 02-01-04, 09:06 PM	MoS definitely gives more Domain power, as well as the better BAB; I'd have a hard time choosing between that and Prescient Sense/Uncanny Dodge (the main reason I took a full four levels of Divine Oracle. Both classes make a lot of sense coupled with Hexer, as well.
Matt Neuman 02-01-04, 10:03 PM	Sean's comments to me were in regards to my cleric/mage of the arcane order. I basically just asked him if he would allow it, if he were the DM. http://pub17.ezboard.com/fseankreynoldsboardsfrm5.showMessage?top icID=482.topic I don't think his response can be said to be official, since he no longer works on staff for WotC, but I figured he was a good one to ask about it. His answer works for our game, but really each DM should make their own decision about this, until a printed errata or faq entry is made (if ever). <rant> Customer service is far too likely to contradict themselves for my taste, especially since without a faq or errata on this, you are basically just trusting their judgement on these sorts of things. Since their judgement is no better than your own asking them for a call of that sort is really a waste of time. They are by far the least reliable 'official' source of information, since they base their answers on the faq, sage rulings and errata for the most part. It's entirely possible (probably even likely) that the sage would rule against anyspell being used this way, but since he hasn't, you are basically just asking for their opinion. </rant>
LordShade 02-02-04, 12:26 AM	Originally posted by PhaedrusXY It doesn't matter. It's either one way, or the other. Either Anyspell allows you to cast an "Arcane" spell, or it is still a "Divine" spell. With the former, it opens up Mystic Theurge. With the latter, it opens up Hexer. Either way, the min/maxers still win. :D hahahaha, that's the right attitude Phaedrus! Kudos to you. Give yourself a cookie. :rofl: btw, while custserv may be sketchy I consider Rich Baker to be a credible source. He's a Birthright guy and I have a lot of respect for him.
MikeN 02-02-04, 12:53 AM	A DM can say "no Spell domain". __________ No soup for you!! __________ That's a great looking Hexer build though I must admit...
Qaetar 02-02-04, 07:30 AM	What about using Miracle to duplicate a Wizard/Sorcerer spell? I know it's not very feasibly useful since it's a level 9 spell, but with some Ur-Priest goodness it might come into play. (Qaetar)
Funny Slaughter 02-02-04, 07:50 AM	miracle was clear all the time, its an divine spell and stays this. anyspell states that you can cast an arcane spell so it was a bit more difficult to resolve. gs Funny
Qaetar 02-02-04, 07:00 PM	But with Miracle you can cast arcane spells. Miracle, however, would definitely qualify you for Hexer?
Caelic 02-02-04, 07:02 PM	As definitely as anything. Next time you ask your DM what the odds are of him allowing you to take Hexer, and he responds with, "It'll take a miracle!" ...well, there you go. :)
Matt Neuman 02-02-04, 07:05 PM	No, since miracle doesn't let you cast lightning bolt as a divine spell (although it has the same effect). When you cast miracle you are just duplicating the effect of a lightning bolt. Think of it this way: If someone used spellcraft to identify the spell you cast it would be miracle, not lightning bolt. With anyspell, it would actually come up as the spell you cast, not anyspell (you actually cast the anyspell that morning or whatever).
Caelic 02-02-04, 07:09 PM	Given the power and sheer flexibility of Miracle, I've gotta go with "Yes, it would work." Think of it this way, Matt: "I use Miracle to be able to cast Greater Anyspell. The spell I want to use Anyspell for is Lightning Bolt."
Matt Neuman 02-02-04, 07:16 PM	Heh, now THAT I would allow ;-) Here, have a :cookie:
Hanniball 02-02-04, 07:16 PM	Hey...if they wanted the class to only be open to Adepts, they should've said, "Only open to Adepts" in the prerequisites. they pretty much did, as without the FRCS (a seperate setting entirely, much like OA) Adept is *still* the onlyconcrete way of qualifying for the Prc. i'm liking the latter ksbsnowowl...:cool: either way...just my 0.02 cp
Qaetar 02-02-04, 08:05 PM	Ah, k. The wording of "you prepare an arcane spell in your divine slot" is what clinches it, huh?
Matt Neuman 02-02-04, 08:39 PM	That's the basis of my belief, yes.