AoO Build [Archive] - Wizards Community - Pages Merged by Solauren

AoO Build [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Arabeth
11-13-06, 02:12 PM Hello, I play in a gestalt game and am going for an AoO build, I don't really know if this has been thought up or asked before, I'm sorry in advance if it has! =0)

Anyway, I would be using an Elan, and the focus of the build would be str and dex (for high damage and lots of AoO's with combat reflexes)... He would take monk / swordsage at first level, with the "Passive Way" UA Variant so I would gain combat reflexes at 1st level without having 13 int...

She would wield a spiked chain for AoO's before they reach me, and unarmed strikes for the AoO's caused by karmic strike!

Since the build involves being hit a LOT I really need Elan resilience, hopefully some DR, a lot of hp, and fast healing / regen if I can get my hands on it! =p

Feats:

Dodge (pre-req for Karmic Strike)
Combat Reflexes (DUH!)
Karmic Strike (For MAD AoO's!)
Superior Unarmed Strike and Improved Natural Attack (for very high unarmed damage)
Shadow Blade (Dex to damage while in a Shadow hand Stance)
Enhanced Elan Resilience (for absorbing more damage)
Improved Toughness (For obvious reasons)

Classes:

Monk (mostly for unarmed damage, speed and bonus feats)
Swordsage (for awesome maneuvers, and eventually thicket of blades!)
Psywarrior (more pp for Elan resilience and some very nice powers, like expansion, wich would give me a 20' reach with my spiked chain)
Fighter (Face it... I need feats!! A lot more than the essential ones I put in)

So that's basically what I have so far... I need some help figuring out the finer aspects, such as easy ways to get DR / FH / Regen, other feats that would be good, and most importantly, since AC is not really a problem, considering I WANT to be hit *=0)* what feats can I take that dump on AC and boost melee attack and damage?!!

Also, any classes that would help me would be appreciated, thanks!
HoshiAdam
11-13-06, 02:44 PM Unless there is an errata somewhere, Elan resilience only works once per round, as it is an immediate action.

Passive Way doesn't give Combat Reflexes, it gives Combat Expertise (might be just a typo in your post).

You can choose to abandon your fighting style by taking a different bonus feat. So two levels of Monk can get you Combat Expertise and Combat Reflexes.

Taking Psychic Warrior early would be a good idea, for Force Screen and other useful feats/powers.
Llochlyn
11-13-06, 02:45 PM Swordsages can't get Thicket of blades. Crusaders can, and also bring a virtual DR to the table (along with healing strikes)
Arabeth
11-13-06, 04:32 PM Unless there is an errata somewhere, Elan resilience only works once per round, as it is an immediate action.

Passive Way doesn't give Combat Reflexes, it gives Combat Expertise (might be just a typo in your post).

You can choose to abandon your fighting style by taking a different bonus feat. So two levels of Monk can get you Combat Expertise and Combat Reflexes.

Taking Psychic Warrior early would be a good idea, for Force Screen and other useful feats/powers.

Yes, that was a typo, and breaking the vow at 2nd level was already in my plans too! =0)

Elan resilience only works once per round, I never said it didn't, but reducing 4 damage per pp spent is not a small ammount to reduce per round! =p

OH, and force screen wouldn't really be useful, since I get more AoO's when they hit me!

Swordsages can't get Thicket of blades. Crusaders can, and also bring a virtual DR to the table (along with healing strikes)

Damn.... just saw that now, the problem is crusaders aren't approved yet in the game I play...

One crusader question, would I be able to store 5 points in my delay damage pool and use my furious counterstrike on EVERY AoO caused by karmic strike?! I don't see why I shouldn't, since the AoO occurs immediately after the hit!

I was thinking of using stone bones for DR, is there any way to get FH or regen?

Finally, I realized I didn't mention this, my original plan was to take:

Monk / Swordsage (or crusader now, I'm not sure)
Monk / Psywarrior
Fighter / Psywarrior (Feat level, basically! =0)

then monk / Swordsage ad eternum! (or crusader, I repeat!)

Any more suggestions? I could really use the input, especially from other books, since I don't own that many!
Arabeth
11-13-06, 05:22 PM oooooh, big problem with crusader, it doesn't get shadow hand!

Doing dex as a bonus to damage with spiked chain when in a shadow hand stance is "da' awesomeness" and I would not lightly like to lose that ability, especially since I'll be spending full points on dex and str!
HoshiAdam
11-13-06, 05:25 PM Psychic Warrior can give DR 2/- through the biofeedback power, and it is augmentable.

Vigor might not be Fast Healing, but it can provide a good buffer of hit points. When you get second level powers, you can pick up Biofeedback for some self-healing.

Since you sound like you are going for Spiked Chain primarily, I think there is a variant Monk class feature in PHB2 that would replace flurry for the ability to do a single attack that does more damage. Not sure if it only works with Monk weapons.
Arabeth
11-13-06, 05:51 PM Actually, Spiked chain is only for AoO's caused by movement, the Karmic strike ones will be dealt with my unarmed strike, wich will be much more powerful eventually, seeing as I'll be taking improved natural attack and superior unarmed strike...

Vigor and biofeedback are nice, but pretty simple... I was already intending on taking them with psywarrior, I'm thinking of something possibly from some other book that would be stronger?

Also, I need ways to deal tremendous damage with my AoO's... are there any feats or class abilities that allow extra damage on AoO's?! What about stuff that consumes AC to deal more damage?!
SageBahamut
11-13-06, 05:58 PM Once you get to BAB 12 there's Robillar's Gambit (another -4AC to get an AoO when you're swung on, whether it hits or not).

Hold the Line to stall chargers.
There is a commander aura (Heroes of Battle) that makes you (or maybe just your allies) deal more damage with AoO's I think.
Deft Opportunist = +4 to-hit on all Attacks of Op. (eats Mobility)

Too bad you would be hard pressed to get the Knight ability that makes spaces you threaten difficult terrain. You will sadly be eaten by the first fellow Monk to put the Tumble on you.

Interestingly enough, if you search these boards, there is a build somewhere (maybe on the World Records?) that lets you take an attack of op on anybody you threaten, pretty much regardless of what they do and when.
Arabeth
11-13-06, 07:11 PM I believe you're reffering to thicket of blades? I intend on taking it, it allows you to deal AoO's even from 5-foot steps!

And as for BAB 12, let's just say I'll be lucky to reach ECL 10, I'll probably finish at 7-8 or so... it's an ECL 1 starting game

Deft opportunist seems promising, where is it from?

Hold the line is probably not to my advantage though, since chargers will be crushed by me anyway... I will get three AoO's from movement +1 for the hit... if I attack him with hold the line on the first one I'll be forgoing the others!

I just realized, Close-Quarters Fighting will be essential, since I REALLY don't want to get grappled!

Furthermore, my attack / damage is still not the highest, keep 'em coming! =0)
Rhonin the Big
11-13-06, 08:59 PM In my sig there is a fighter20 build known as Nox, he can deal very good damage with AoOs even at high levels. Just don't fight him, you wont like the results.

RadicalTaoist has a Crusader build called "Lester the Molester." It utilizes Defensive Rebuke (boost) the Thicket of Blades stance with a spiked chain, rolibar's gambit, mage slayer and defensive sweep. You get an AoO off of all of the following:

When he attacks you, when he attacks anybody BUT you, when you move, when you DONT move, when you step, when you cast and even when you talk. The only thing you can do when being threatened by Lester that wont draw AoO is Implode. Search for Lester the Molester, or PM him asking for it and maybe you shall receive.
RadicalTaoist
11-13-06, 11:17 PM Technically, RtB, he can make an attack of opportunity off of you attacking him, you missing him, you hitting him, you moving at all (5' step included), you attacking his allies, and you casting. He also has 3+his Dex mod+his Wis mod AoOs in a round.
Witness the molestation here.
KnightRanger
11-15-06, 03:16 PM I was looking into a Gestalt build with just Crusader 20/ Psychic Warrior 20.

You want to get big (Expansion, Improved Natural Attack) and then use your Claws of the Beast/Claws of the Vampire. With all the AoO generating abilities with Robilars Gambit and Karmic Strike you can heal back some of the damage that they inflict. Plus, you're Elan, so you can go for those nasty aberration feats Rapid Strike and Improved Rapid Strike, sooner than before due to the Crusaders BAB. And just take Over channel, you don’t need talented with the delay damage ability of the Crusader plus all the healing you will be doing.

Just thought I'd share. I don't know if anyone else has posted something like this or not. (I’m not claiming that I came up with the Elan/Psychic Warrior/Claws of the Beast/Rapid Strike Tree combo, just Gestalting it with the Crusader) :)

KR
Arco_Monk
11-17-06, 03:17 PM If you take 1 or 2 monk levels, try Decisive Strike (PHB2) which replaces your flurry of blows. It is a full round action for a single attack, but it doubles your damage on all attacks until the start of your next turn. Great for your AoO!
Rhonin the Big
11-17-06, 11:40 PM If you take 1 or 2 monk levels, try Decisive Strike (PHB2) which replaces your flurry of blows. It is a full round action for a single attack, but it doubles your damage on all attacks until the start of your next turn. Great for your AoO!

It only works with unarmed strikes and/or flurriable weapons, making it suck with AoO builds since you cant use High Sword Low Axe or spiked chain reachitude.

Did I just invent 2 words?
Arabeth
11-18-06, 03:01 PM Thank you all for the help, I really appreciate it... I cannot find decisive strike though, are you sure it's in PHB2??

I've added some feats to my list:

-Deft Opportunist
-Power Attack
-Improved Bull Rush
-Shock Trooper
-Improved Combat Reflexes

I'm still in a dillema here about taking crusader... I won't be able to take many levels of it since I really need feats so I'll be taking some fighter / Psywarrior

Any other ideas would still be appreciated...
Bill Bisco: Average Adventurer
11-18-06, 03:47 PM Decisive Strike isn't a feat, it's an alternate class feature (I think). Also, does your Dm enforce multiclassing penalties and what level are you starting at, and when would you guess the campaign would end?
Arabeth
11-18-06, 05:58 PM It's actually an arena game, starting at level 1... I guess I could get him up to level 6 easily, and about 10-12 in like a month or so

No multiclass penalty

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Arabeth 11-13-06, 02:12 PM	Hello, I play in a gestalt game and am going for an AoO build, I don't really know if this has been thought up or asked before, I'm sorry in advance if it has! =0) Anyway, I would be using an Elan, and the focus of the build would be str and dex (for high damage and lots of AoO's with combat reflexes)... He would take monk / swordsage at first level, with the "Passive Way" UA Variant so I would gain combat reflexes at 1st level without having 13 int... She would wield a spiked chain for AoO's before they reach me, and unarmed strikes for the AoO's caused by karmic strike! Since the build involves being hit a LOT I really need Elan resilience, hopefully some DR, a lot of hp, and fast healing / regen if I can get my hands on it! =p Feats: Dodge (pre-req for Karmic Strike) Combat Reflexes (DUH!) Karmic Strike (For MAD AoO's!) Superior Unarmed Strike and Improved Natural Attack (for very high unarmed damage) Shadow Blade (Dex to damage while in a Shadow hand Stance) Enhanced Elan Resilience (for absorbing more damage) Improved Toughness (For obvious reasons) Classes: Monk (mostly for unarmed damage, speed and bonus feats) Swordsage (for awesome maneuvers, and eventually thicket of blades!) Psywarrior (more pp for Elan resilience and some very nice powers, like expansion, wich would give me a 20' reach with my spiked chain) Fighter (Face it... I need feats!! A lot more than the essential ones I put in) So that's basically what I have so far... I need some help figuring out the finer aspects, such as easy ways to get DR / FH / Regen, other feats that would be good, and most importantly, since AC is not really a problem, considering I WANT to be hit =0) what feats can I take that dump on AC and boost melee attack and damage?!! Also, any classes that would help me would be appreciated, thanks!
HoshiAdam 11-13-06, 02:44 PM	Unless there is an errata somewhere, Elan resilience only works once per round, as it is an immediate action. Passive Way doesn't give Combat Reflexes, it gives Combat Expertise (might be just a typo in your post). You can choose to abandon your fighting style by taking a different bonus feat. So two levels of Monk can get you Combat Expertise and Combat Reflexes. Taking Psychic Warrior early would be a good idea, for Force Screen and other useful feats/powers.
Llochlyn 11-13-06, 02:45 PM	Swordsages can't get Thicket of blades. Crusaders can, and also bring a virtual DR to the table (along with healing strikes)
Arabeth 11-13-06, 04:32 PM	Unless there is an errata somewhere, Elan resilience only works once per round, as it is an immediate action. Passive Way doesn't give Combat Reflexes, it gives Combat Expertise (might be just a typo in your post). You can choose to abandon your fighting style by taking a different bonus feat. So two levels of Monk can get you Combat Expertise and Combat Reflexes. Taking Psychic Warrior early would be a good idea, for Force Screen and other useful feats/powers. Yes, that was a typo, and breaking the vow at 2nd level was already in my plans too! =0) Elan resilience only works once per round, I never said it didn't, but reducing 4 damage per pp spent is not a small ammount to reduce per round! =p OH, and force screen wouldn't really be useful, since I get more AoO's when they hit me! Swordsages can't get Thicket of blades. Crusaders can, and also bring a virtual DR to the table (along with healing strikes) Damn.... just saw that now, the problem is crusaders aren't approved yet in the game I play... One crusader question, would I be able to store 5 points in my delay damage pool and use my furious counterstrike on EVERY AoO caused by karmic strike?! I don't see why I shouldn't, since the AoO occurs immediately after the hit! I was thinking of using stone bones for DR, is there any way to get FH or regen? Finally, I realized I didn't mention this, my original plan was to take: Monk / Swordsage (or crusader now, I'm not sure) Monk / Psywarrior Fighter / Psywarrior (Feat level, basically! =0) then monk / Swordsage ad eternum! (or crusader, I repeat!) Any more suggestions? I could really use the input, especially from other books, since I don't own that many!
Arabeth 11-13-06, 05:22 PM	oooooh, big problem with crusader, it doesn't get shadow hand! Doing dex as a bonus to damage with spiked chain when in a shadow hand stance is "da' awesomeness" and I would not lightly like to lose that ability, especially since I'll be spending full points on dex and str!
HoshiAdam 11-13-06, 05:25 PM	Psychic Warrior can give DR 2/- through the biofeedback power, and it is augmentable. Vigor might not be Fast Healing, but it can provide a good buffer of hit points. When you get second level powers, you can pick up Biofeedback for some self-healing. Since you sound like you are going for Spiked Chain primarily, I think there is a variant Monk class feature in PHB2 that would replace flurry for the ability to do a single attack that does more damage. Not sure if it only works with Monk weapons.
Arabeth 11-13-06, 05:51 PM	Actually, Spiked chain is only for AoO's caused by movement, the Karmic strike ones will be dealt with my unarmed strike, wich will be much more powerful eventually, seeing as I'll be taking improved natural attack and superior unarmed strike... Vigor and biofeedback are nice, but pretty simple... I was already intending on taking them with psywarrior, I'm thinking of something possibly from some other book that would be stronger? Also, I need ways to deal tremendous damage with my AoO's... are there any feats or class abilities that allow extra damage on AoO's?! What about stuff that consumes AC to deal more damage?!
SageBahamut 11-13-06, 05:58 PM	Once you get to BAB 12 there's Robillar's Gambit (another -4AC to get an AoO when you're swung on, whether it hits or not). Hold the Line to stall chargers. There is a commander aura (Heroes of Battle) that makes you (or maybe just your allies) deal more damage with AoO's I think. Deft Opportunist = +4 to-hit on all Attacks of Op. (eats Mobility) Too bad you would be hard pressed to get the Knight ability that makes spaces you threaten difficult terrain. You will sadly be eaten by the first fellow Monk to put the Tumble on you. Interestingly enough, if you search these boards, there is a build somewhere (maybe on the World Records?) that lets you take an attack of op on anybody you threaten, pretty much regardless of what they do and when.
Arabeth 11-13-06, 07:11 PM	I believe you're reffering to thicket of blades? I intend on taking it, it allows you to deal AoO's even from 5-foot steps! And as for BAB 12, let's just say I'll be lucky to reach ECL 10, I'll probably finish at 7-8 or so... it's an ECL 1 starting game Deft opportunist seems promising, where is it from? Hold the line is probably not to my advantage though, since chargers will be crushed by me anyway... I will get three AoO's from movement +1 for the hit... if I attack him with hold the line on the first one I'll be forgoing the others! I just realized, Close-Quarters Fighting will be essential, since I REALLY don't want to get grappled! Furthermore, my attack / damage is still not the highest, keep 'em coming! =0)
Rhonin the Big 11-13-06, 08:59 PM	In my sig there is a fighter20 build known as Nox, he can deal very good damage with AoOs even at high levels. Just don't fight him, you wont like the results. RadicalTaoist has a Crusader build called "Lester the Molester." It utilizes Defensive Rebuke (boost) the Thicket of Blades stance with a spiked chain, rolibar's gambit, mage slayer and defensive sweep. You get an AoO off of all of the following: When he attacks you, when he attacks anybody BUT you, when you move, when you DONT move, when you step, when you cast and even when you talk. The only thing you can do when being threatened by Lester that wont draw AoO is Implode. Search for Lester the Molester, or PM him asking for it and maybe you shall receive.
RadicalTaoist 11-13-06, 11:17 PM	Technically, RtB, he can make an attack of opportunity off of you attacking him, you missing him, you hitting him, you moving at all (5' step included), you attacking his allies, and you casting. He also has 3+his Dex mod+his Wis mod AoOs in a round. Witness the molestation here.
KnightRanger 11-15-06, 03:16 PM	I was looking into a Gestalt build with just Crusader 20/ Psychic Warrior 20. You want to get big (Expansion, Improved Natural Attack) and then use your Claws of the Beast/Claws of the Vampire. With all the AoO generating abilities with Robilars Gambit and Karmic Strike you can heal back some of the damage that they inflict. Plus, you're Elan, so you can go for those nasty aberration feats Rapid Strike and Improved Rapid Strike, sooner than before due to the Crusaders BAB. And just take Over channel, you don’t need talented with the delay damage ability of the Crusader plus all the healing you will be doing. Just thought I'd share. I don't know if anyone else has posted something like this or not. (I’m not claiming that I came up with the Elan/Psychic Warrior/Claws of the Beast/Rapid Strike Tree combo, just Gestalting it with the Crusader) :) KR
Arco_Monk 11-17-06, 03:17 PM	If you take 1 or 2 monk levels, try Decisive Strike (PHB2) which replaces your flurry of blows. It is a full round action for a single attack, but it doubles your damage on all attacks until the start of your next turn. Great for your AoO!
Rhonin the Big 11-17-06, 11:40 PM	If you take 1 or 2 monk levels, try Decisive Strike (PHB2) which replaces your flurry of blows. It is a full round action for a single attack, but it doubles your damage on all attacks until the start of your next turn. Great for your AoO! It only works with unarmed strikes and/or flurriable weapons, making it suck with AoO builds since you cant use High Sword Low Axe or spiked chain reachitude. Did I just invent 2 words?
Arabeth 11-18-06, 03:01 PM	Thank you all for the help, I really appreciate it... I cannot find decisive strike though, are you sure it's in PHB2?? I've added some feats to my list: -Deft Opportunist -Power Attack -Improved Bull Rush -Shock Trooper -Improved Combat Reflexes I'm still in a dillema here about taking crusader... I won't be able to take many levels of it since I really need feats so I'll be taking some fighter / Psywarrior Any other ideas would still be appreciated...
Bill Bisco: Average Adventurer 11-18-06, 03:47 PM	Decisive Strike isn't a feat, it's an alternate class feature (I think). Also, does your Dm enforce multiclassing penalties and what level are you starting at, and when would you guess the campaign would end?
Arabeth 11-18-06, 05:58 PM	It's actually an arena game, starting at level 1... I guess I could get him up to level 6 easily, and about 10-12 in like a month or so No multiclass penalty