Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Deviston 06-23-06, 11:17 AM	Anyone wanna see my melee build for a 20th level who deals about 17d6 per round and who's AoO's are damn near unlimited?
PhoenixInferno 06-23-06, 12:08 PM	Sounds awfully familiar. But its not like you need PERMISSION, just do it!
Deviston 06-23-06, 01:30 PM	heh heh heh . . . good point! here it comes inna a few!
raineym 06-23-06, 03:09 PM	Anyone wanna see my melee build for a 20th level who deals about 17d6 per round and who's AoO's are damn near unlimited? Been there ... done that. Granted, what's in that thread is not the final build, but its close to what you have here. And, BTW, at level 21, that build can have unlimited attacks: [Improved/Epic] Combat Reflexes.
PhoenixInferno 06-23-06, 03:25 PM	Been there ... done that. Granted, what's in that thread is not the final build, but its close to what you have here. And, BTW, at level 21, that build can have unlimited attacks: [Improved/Epic] Combat Reflexes.He does 17d6 points of damage on his AoO - you get STR + Weapon damage. I suspect he gets it from SA or massive size increases, but I'm curious to see what it is exactly. And don't think you're the originator of the Chain AoO build - credit goes to Snow Savant for that. Never dismiss an idea that's been "done before" - sometimes there's a new take.
Francius 06-23-06, 07:42 PM	Hey raineym, what is that "Shaky Character Flaw" thing that grants you an extra feat?
raineym 06-23-06, 09:47 PM	... And don't think you're the originator of the Chain AoO build - credit goes to Snow Savant for that. ... I know Snow Savant originated it, but mine differs in the fact that he gets multiple attacks with a single AoO with Imp. and Greater Combat Reflexes. As a matter of fact, it was Snow Savant's build that inspired me to build the one I'm playing now. ... Never dismiss an idea that's been "done before" - sometimes there's a new take. To me, Deviston, even though it may not have been his or her intention, sounded like he had the original idea and was trying to get someone egged on enough to ask about it. I just pointed out that it had been done, and if I had immediate access to Snow Savant's thread URL handy, I would have pointed to that as well. I present to you the first, and possibly the best: Gatling Chain Gun by Snow Savant. Hey raineym, what is that "Shaky Character Flaw" thing that grants you an extra feat? Character flaws are found in Unearthed Arcana. Each flaw you take grants you a bonus feat. All this reminds me that I need to update that thread with the new build I'm playing.
Deviston 06-24-06, 01:58 PM	Fighter 1-15 Incarnate 16-20 1. 2 Wep Fightin, Combat Reflexes 2. Dodge 3. Deft Opportunist 4. Mobility 5. 6. Imp. 2 Wep Fightin, Double Hit 7. 8. Combat Expertise 9. Karmic Strike 10. Spring Attack 11. 12. Robilar's Gambit, 2 Wep Rend 13. 14. Imp Trip 15. Knockdown 16. 17. 18. G. 2 Wep Fightin 19. 20. (2) +4 Blades of Frost,Flame,Shock,Vicious,Bane Gloves of Dex Belt of Strength Incarnate for the purpose of maxed out Mantle of Flame, 5d6 everytime I am hit, not save, no AC check. If the enemy is your Bane, everytime he hits you, you can deal 4 total AoO dealing 8d6 weapon damage 5d6 Mantle of Flame damage 2d6 + STR X 1.5 2 Wep Rend Damage STR X 3 (2 from primary and 1 from both secondary attacks) And I think that's it . . .
raineym 06-24-06, 04:51 PM	The Mantle of Flame is a rather nice twist to the AoO concept. My appologies from the previous post if it seems rather harsh. Anyway, although the concept is quite impressive, and not taking anything away from the concept, there are few things you need to know ... According to WotC CustServ, Karmic Strike and Robilar's Gambit no longer work as you may think. Now, if you activate them both you take a -8 penalty to AC but only get the benefits of one or the other, not both (Robilar's Gambit is the best one if you can avoid damage, and Karmic Strike the best if you have a horrible AC anyway or can absorb damage), which is only 1 AoO every time they swing or hit, depending on which one you have active. Two-Weapon Rend only applies once per round per a given opponent, and the damage is 1d6 x (STR mod x 1.5). Frost, Flame and Shock deal 1d6 damage apiece, and Vicious and Bane deal 2d6 damage apiece = 7d6. I assume the extra 1d6 is the actual weapon damage. If both weapons are like-enchanted, then something is wrong with the DM. Vicious does 1d6 points of damage to you as well, so if you can absorb the damage from both Robilar's Gambit/Karmic Strike and Vicious without some sort of fast healing, more power to you. Knock-Down grants you a special trip attempt if you deal 10 or more damage, not another AoO. Anybody you fight that has reach will avoid all damage unless you somehow threaten their square with reach of your own (and with swords listed, I doubt it), and even then, they avoid the damage from Mantle of Flame.
Deviston 06-24-06, 06:13 PM	The Mantle of Flame is a rather nice twist to the AoO concept. My appologies from the previous post if it seems rather harsh. Anyway, although the concept is quite impressive, and not taking anything away from the concept, there are few things you need to know ... According to WotC CustServ, Karmic Strike and Robilar's Gambit no longer work as you may think. Now, if you activate them both you take a -8 penalty to AC but only get the benefits of one or the other, not both (Robilar's Gambit is the best one if you can avoid damage, and Karmic Strike the best if you have a horrible AC anyway or can absorb damage), which is only 1 AoO every time they swing or hit, depending on which one you have active. Two-Weapon Rend only applies once per round per a given opponent, and the damage is 1d6 x (STR mod x 1.5). Frost, Flame and Shock deal 1d6 damage apiece, and Vicious and Bane deal 2d6 damage apiece = 7d6. I assume the extra 1d6 is the actual weapon damage. If both weapons are like-enchanted, then something is wrong with the DM. Vicious does 1d6 points of damage to you as well, so if you can absorb the damage from both Robilar's Gambit/Karmic Strike and Vicious without some sort of fast healing, more power to you. Knock-Down grants you a special trip attempt if you deal 10 or more damage, not another AoO. Anybody you fight that has reach will avoid all damage unless you somehow threaten their square with reach of your own (and with swords listed, I doubt it), and even then, they avoid the damage from Mantle of Flame. 1. That doesn't hold water in my book, nor my friends, so we say they both work. 2. Typo on my part. 3. Assumation is correct, and whatever I buy has no effect on the DM (( plus, this is just optimization, not serious situation, I would NEVER play this anyway! )) 4. I know. 5. I know. More of a thing where you gain another +4 to hit because your enemy is prone. 6. No big, just a build I came up with as soon as I saw Robliars Gambit. Thanks for your reply, I was just seeing what the world thought of it.
PhoenixInferno 06-24-06, 07:28 PM	Why odd levels of Fighter, hmm? Probably grab some more essentia if you swaped that last Fighter level for an Incarnate level.
McSplat 06-24-06, 08:10 PM	If you read the description of Flaming, Frost, Shock, etc. you'll soon realize you can't have more than one at the same time. While you can possess a weapon with those magical proporties, you have to choose at the time if it's going to deal fire or cold. "On command, a flaming weapon is sheathed in fire...The effect remains until another command is given."
aelryinth 06-24-06, 09:46 PM	Um, yes, you can. Nothing there says the effects can't stack or are mutually exclusive. You just have to take a standard action to activate the effects. ==Aelryinth
Kessalin Talira 06-24-06, 10:23 PM	Um, yes, you can. Nothing there says the effects can't stack or are mutually exclusive. You just have to take a standard action to activate the effects. ==AelryinthQuoted for truth.
Pan_Ai_Khan 06-26-06, 08:25 AM	i'm not sure if this has been covered, but i'll ask anyway. I'm sure the rules as written state you can only hit a particular foe with ONE AoO in a round, no matter how many they provoke - is there a way around this?
Francius 06-26-06, 08:39 AM	i'm not sure if this has been covered, but i'll ask anyway. I'm sure the rules as written state you can only hit a particular foe with ONE AoO in a round, no matter how many they provoke - is there a way around this? Yes you are correct. However,in Dragon Mag. issue 340 two new feats were released for the opportunistic player which actually allowed you to make more than one AoO for a given opportunity. However, both of those feats are based off the Combat reflexes feat which in its turn gives your character a max number of AoOs he can perform in a round.That is to say that even with the feats of the DragonMag, you still can't exceed the number of AoOs the combat reflexes give you and if you make more than one AoO per given opportunity it counts against your total number of AoO for a round. Ex:Bob the fighter has 15 Dex(+2 mod) and his feats are Combat Reflexes,Improved CR and Greater CR. Thus, he can make 3 attacks of opportunity in a round to 3 separate enemies or on 3 separate occasions to the same enemy or 3 attacks on the same opponent for the same occasion that provokes an attack of opportunity. Hope it helps.
cafiend 06-26-06, 09:15 AM	i'm not sure if this has been covered, but i'll ask anyway. I'm sure the rules as written state you can only hit a particular foe with ONE AoO in a round, no matter how many they provoke - is there a way around this? SRD: Combat Reflexes and Additional Attacks of Opportunity: If you have the Combat Reflexes feat you can add your Dexterity modifier to the number of attacks of opportunity you can make in a round. This feat does not let you make more than one attack for a given opportunity, but if the same opponent provokes two attacks of opportunity from you, you could make two separate attacks of opportunity (since each one represents a different opportunity). Moving out of more than one square threatened by the same opponent in the same round doesn’t count as more than one opportunity for that opponent. All these attacks are at your full normal attack bonus.
Kessalin Talira 06-26-06, 02:04 PM	Right. The rule that Pan_Ai_Khan is thinking of is the 3.0 rule for taking Attacks of Opportunity. In 3.5, as cafiend quoted from the SRD, if someone provokes two attacks of opportunity in a round and you have combat reflexes, you can take both of them.
Pan_Ai_Khan 06-27-06, 03:33 AM	Hmm.... OK, thanks for the clear-up. I've already got some ideas to make my opponent generate multiple AoO's.
Some Like It Hot 06-27-06, 09:03 AM	According to WotC CustServ, Karmic Strike and Robilar's Gambit no longer work as you may think. Now, if you activate them both you take a -8 penalty to AC but only get the benefits of one or the other, not both (Robilar's Gambit is the best one if you can avoid damage, and Karmic Strike the best if you have a horrible AC anyway or can absorb damage), which is only 1 AoO every time they swing or hit, depending on which one you have active. Out of curiosity, did they offer any reason why they wouldn't stack or did they just say they didn't? I rather liked the idea of the two working together. -SLIH
saru 06-28-06, 03:18 AM	Um, yes, you can. Nothing there says the effects can't stack or are mutually exclusive. You just have to take a standard action to activate the effects. ==Aelryinth Are you sure fire and cold stack ? I would really know how a blade can do both fire and cold damage at same time. I say that because i think WotC stated fire and cold can't stack, but i may be wrong.
Kessalin Talira 06-28-06, 04:36 AM	You're thinking Holy and Unholy, and Axiomatic and Chaotic. You can't have a good evil weapon, nor can you have a lawful chaotic one.
LogicNinja 06-28-06, 05:29 AM	It's magic. The blade could be magically cold, but be wreathed in a nimbus of fire, for example.
Pan_Ai_Khan 06-28-06, 08:07 AM	fire and cold on a weapon don't stack. the DMG says so. the damage cancels each other out (you take net damage equal to the difference, either fire or cold). However, if your target is resistant to one or the other, it would take whichever one it didn't resist.
Brol_The_Mighty 06-28-06, 08:49 AM	This is the AoO master that I just built, after seeing all of the AoO goodness. We use all books, even some 3rd party, and flaws, and all other ways to gain a feat (including anti-feats) are allowed. We took away Trap Sense from the Barb, and gave him bonus feats instead: Ranger 2 Barb 3 Revenant Blade 5 Champion of Gwyngrf(whatever) 10 AoO feats taken: Combat Reflexes Butterfly Flank(3rd party, allows you to count as flanking is you and an ally threaten same creature) Backstab Deft Oppurtunist Rombilar's Gambit Two Weapon Attack of Oppurtunity Defensive Sweep Canny Oppurtunist Exploit Adjustment Improved combat reflexes. Doing this: If they attack me, if they attack ally,if they're in my threat range, and don't move, and if they're in my threat range, and only move 5', it all draws AoO's fire and cold on a weapon don't stack. the DMG says so Really? I'm lookin at my DMG under the entries for the Frost, and Fire abilities, and it says NOTHING about not stacking. Can you please cite the pg. such information is found on?
McJarvis 06-28-06, 10:13 AM	I'll do ya one better. There’s nothing illogical about a flaming, frost, shock weapon (at least not within any framework that allows weapons to generate energy in the first place), and there’s no rule against such weapons (think of the weapon as having fiery, frosty, shocking flames). The character creating such a weapon decides how it can be activated. Most such weapons probably are made so that the wielders can activate all three powers simultaneously, or activate them one at a time, as desired. emphasis mine. As far as opposing energy types cancelling each other out- I find no mention of this in the DMG. Are you sure you're not thinking of the chill metal/heat metal spells? Those rules for negating damage don't apply to the whole game.
cafiend 06-28-06, 11:22 AM	fire and cold on a weapon don't stack. the DMG says so. the damage cancels each other out (you take net damage equal to the difference, either fire or cold). However, if your target is resistant to one or the other, it would take whichever one it didn't resist. Not to be rude, but please don't say ' The DMG says so' without providing an SRD quote or at least an page number/paragraph where this proof lies. There have been plenty of times I have firmly believed i read something, that I have gone back to look for and found it didn't exist/ I read it wrong. The exercise of refrencing your sources not only makes sure you are correct but allows others to know what your arguement is based on. Thanks.
raineym 06-28-06, 12:41 PM	Out of curiosity, did they offer any reason why they wouldn't stack or did they just say they didn't? I rather liked the idea of the two working together. -SLIH I know Leugren on these same boards contacted CustServ on this issue as well, and his response from them was the same, but I gave a detailed example in my email to them. Their response to me was that the damage caused by a successful attack is the resulting continuation of the attack, and thus the attack itself and the damage caused by the attack are inclusive, meaning that the attack and the damage are not two separate triggers for Attacks of Opportunity.