AoO Optimized? [Archive] - Wizards Community

AoO Optimized? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
FromTheShadows
01-19-06, 03:53 PM Alright, maybe this isn't as great of a thing as I think it could be, but I found something interesting in Dragon #340, which I just got today.

Now, for those who don't know, there's an epic feat called Sneak Attack of Opportunity (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/feats.htm#sneakAttackOfOpportunity). Dragon, in their twisted idea of balance, decided that it would be a good idea to release a feat with the same name and almost identical effects; the only difference being that it only functions on the first AoO you make in a round.

They also put in other AoO enhancers, allowing AoOs at new opportunites, such as when a flanked opponent attacks someone else, someone feints in combat, someone takes a 5-ft. step, or casts a quickened spell, among others. These new openings usually come with a few packaged together within a feat. Also appearing are a modified version of Double Hit from the MiniHB (which now takes 2 AoOs to preform) and feats that allow two or three AoOs against an opponent should they provoke just one AoO, though each extra attack takes one AoO away from you and they take pentalties just like normal attack progression.

Of course, if you combined them right used two weapons, and had enough Dex, you could hit an opponent three times with your main hand and three times with your off hand for provoking one AoO.

So, are they any thoughts, opinions, or ideas on this? (Karmic Strike comes to mind.) Given enough responses, I might start an AoO handbook here.
Grethor
01-19-06, 04:56 PM one feat necessary for a build based on this: Improved Combat Reflexes [Epic]

allows for unlimited AoO's.

I'd love to see an AoO advice thread pop up around here, I soo love AoO's.

one idea I read somewhere on the boards here was walking by mobs, provoking just one AoO while you threatened a lot of them, have Great Cleaving and Karmic Strike, drop one of the mob and cleave your way through the rest of them.

Spellcasting Harrier [epic] should do well too, casting defensively provokes AoO's while you threaten the casters.

BTW - names of those feats?

PS.

yay me! first post in C.O. boards :)
though I've been reading for a while, I just couldnt resist an AoO thread :)
Hanniball
01-19-06, 05:27 PM Expert Tactician (CAd)

Lots of fighter levels for all the feats neccessary. However, that means little to no bonus damage dice (e.g. Sneak attack) making TWF seem less opitimal.

Either way...just my 0.02 cp
Kuroi Kenshi
01-19-06, 05:46 PM Though some have already been mentioned, Deft Opportunist, Combat Reflexes, Improved Trip, Karmic Strike, Expert Tactician, Double Hit, Side Step, Mage Slayer, Large and in Charge, Elusive Target, Defensive Throw, and Hold the Line are all the AoO-related, non-epic feats I can think of right now.

Is it just me, or is Mage Slayer superior to Spellcasting Harrier, except for characters with casting levels?
Kessalin Talira
01-19-06, 08:40 PM Yes, it is, or rather was.

The latest version of Spellcasting Harrier, I think in Draconomicon, says that they can't cast defensively, and you get a +4 on the attack. It doesn't drop your caster level, either.
Grethor
01-20-06, 11:13 AM well, my opinion on spellcasting harrier vs. mage slayer is that when using mage slayer, the spellcaster KNOWS he cant cast defensively, but when using spellcasting harrier, the spellcaster thinks nothing is wrong, though you can still make an AoO.
AlexVADnD
01-20-06, 11:25 AM I have not yet tried this, but I have always wanted to add Crippling Strike to the mix. Especially with the new feats they list in Dragon #340, and a full round attack, I could see upwards of 10 strength (or more?) damage in one round.

Or am I thinking of something else - don't have the books here at work.
catharz
01-20-06, 12:56 PM The best AoO feat from Dragon was [Close-quarters defense?], which allows a character to take an AoO whenever it normally could, albeit at a penalty.
This woulden't be so amazing if there weren't so many abilities which assume the character isn't going to take AoOs as normal.

Example: A monk flurries you. For every attack he makes, you get an AoO.

The feat also has a few other benefits which I don't remember. IIRC it was dragon 304 or something like that.
PhaedrusXY
01-20-06, 02:35 PM The best AoO feat from Dragon was [Close-quarters defense?], which allows a character to take an AoO whenever it normally could, albeit at a penalty.
This woulden't be so amazing if there weren't so many abilities which assume the character isn't going to take AoOs as normal.

Example: A monk flurries you. For every attack he makes, you get an AoO.

The feat also has a few other benefits which I don't remember. IIRC it was dragon 304 or something like that.Uhh... I don't understand what you're talking about. What do you mean "whenever it normally could"? Does it get rid of the max AoO per round?

You might want to look up the "Sadomasochist: Hit me, please" build. I think there is a link in the build FAQ or C.O. Library somewhere. It was an old thread, but I think it used an item with continuous Sadism and Masochism (BoVD) combined with Karmic Strike.
FromTheShadows
01-20-06, 05:04 PM Wow, a lot of nice responses here. I'll probably transform this thread into an AoO guide/build list, somewhat like what I've done with the Bargain Bin Crafter thread. I'll get into looking into the details of what has been mentioned here.

It'll probably have to wait into tomorrow though. I just finished midterms and need a bit of time to wind down, heh.

Oh, and in an attempt to make this little thread disruption seem to be constructive, the Masochist build that was mentioned can be found here (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=144104).

Another thing I'll need to find is various high-Dex races. (I think there was a listing in the Initiative thread.) That, or high Wis races if we throw the Psychic Weapon Master (http://wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20040827d) into the mix.
AramilWindwalker
01-20-06, 09:37 PM some races with good dex:
Githzerai(+6, La+2)
catfolk(+4, LA +1, with access to catfolk pounce)
Air goblin (+4, la+0)
pixie (+8 ,LA +4, and invisibility for extra sneaking goodies)

more to come

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
FromTheShadows 01-19-06, 03:53 PM	Alright, maybe this isn't as great of a thing as I think it could be, but I found something interesting in Dragon #340, which I just got today. Now, for those who don't know, there's an epic feat called Sneak Attack of Opportunity (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/feats.htm#sneakAttackOfOpportunity). Dragon, in their twisted idea of balance, decided that it would be a good idea to release a feat with the same name and almost identical effects; the only difference being that it only functions on the first AoO you make in a round. They also put in other AoO enhancers, allowing AoOs at new opportunites, such as when a flanked opponent attacks someone else, someone feints in combat, someone takes a 5-ft. step, or casts a quickened spell, among others. These new openings usually come with a few packaged together within a feat. Also appearing are a modified version of Double Hit from the MiniHB (which now takes 2 AoOs to preform) and feats that allow two or three AoOs against an opponent should they provoke just one AoO, though each extra attack takes one AoO away from you and they take pentalties just like normal attack progression. Of course, if you combined them right used two weapons, and had enough Dex, you could hit an opponent three times with your main hand and three times with your off hand for provoking one AoO. So, are they any thoughts, opinions, or ideas on this? (Karmic Strike comes to mind.) Given enough responses, I might start an AoO handbook here.
Grethor 01-19-06, 04:56 PM	one feat necessary for a build based on this: Improved Combat Reflexes [Epic] allows for unlimited AoO's. I'd love to see an AoO advice thread pop up around here, I soo love AoO's. one idea I read somewhere on the boards here was walking by mobs, provoking just one AoO while you threatened a lot of them, have Great Cleaving and Karmic Strike, drop one of the mob and cleave your way through the rest of them. Spellcasting Harrier [epic] should do well too, casting defensively provokes AoO's while you threaten the casters. BTW - names of those feats? PS. yay me! first post in C.O. boards :) though I've been reading for a while, I just couldnt resist an AoO thread :)
Hanniball 01-19-06, 05:27 PM	Expert Tactician (CAd) Lots of fighter levels for all the feats neccessary. However, that means little to no bonus damage dice (e.g. Sneak attack) making TWF seem less opitimal. Either way...just my 0.02 cp
Kuroi Kenshi 01-19-06, 05:46 PM	Though some have already been mentioned, Deft Opportunist, Combat Reflexes, Improved Trip, Karmic Strike, Expert Tactician, Double Hit, Side Step, Mage Slayer, Large and in Charge, Elusive Target, Defensive Throw, and Hold the Line are all the AoO-related, non-epic feats I can think of right now. Is it just me, or is Mage Slayer superior to Spellcasting Harrier, except for characters with casting levels?
Kessalin Talira 01-19-06, 08:40 PM	Yes, it is, or rather was. The latest version of Spellcasting Harrier, I think in Draconomicon, says that they can't cast defensively, and you get a +4 on the attack. It doesn't drop your caster level, either.
Grethor 01-20-06, 11:13 AM	well, my opinion on spellcasting harrier vs. mage slayer is that when using mage slayer, the spellcaster KNOWS he cant cast defensively, but when using spellcasting harrier, the spellcaster thinks nothing is wrong, though you can still make an AoO.
AlexVADnD 01-20-06, 11:25 AM	I have not yet tried this, but I have always wanted to add Crippling Strike to the mix. Especially with the new feats they list in Dragon #340, and a full round attack, I could see upwards of 10 strength (or more?) damage in one round. Or am I thinking of something else - don't have the books here at work.
catharz 01-20-06, 12:56 PM	The best AoO feat from Dragon was [Close-quarters defense?], which allows a character to take an AoO whenever it normally could, albeit at a penalty. This woulden't be so amazing if there weren't so many abilities which assume the character isn't going to take AoOs as normal. Example: A monk flurries you. For every attack he makes, you get an AoO. The feat also has a few other benefits which I don't remember. IIRC it was dragon 304 or something like that.
PhaedrusXY 01-20-06, 02:35 PM	The best AoO feat from Dragon was [Close-quarters defense?], which allows a character to take an AoO whenever it normally could, albeit at a penalty. This woulden't be so amazing if there weren't so many abilities which assume the character isn't going to take AoOs as normal. Example: A monk flurries you. For every attack he makes, you get an AoO. The feat also has a few other benefits which I don't remember. IIRC it was dragon 304 or something like that.Uhh... I don't understand what you're talking about. What do you mean "whenever it normally could"? Does it get rid of the max AoO per round? You might want to look up the "Sadomasochist: Hit me, please" build. I think there is a link in the build FAQ or C.O. Library somewhere. It was an old thread, but I think it used an item with continuous Sadism and Masochism (BoVD) combined with Karmic Strike.
FromTheShadows 01-20-06, 05:04 PM	Wow, a lot of nice responses here. I'll probably transform this thread into an AoO guide/build list, somewhat like what I've done with the Bargain Bin Crafter thread. I'll get into looking into the details of what has been mentioned here. It'll probably have to wait into tomorrow though. I just finished midterms and need a bit of time to wind down, heh. Oh, and in an attempt to make this little thread disruption seem to be constructive, the Masochist build that was mentioned can be found here (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=144104). Another thing I'll need to find is various high-Dex races. (I think there was a listing in the Initiative thread.) That, or high Wis races if we throw the Psychic Weapon Master (http://wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20040827d) into the mix.
AramilWindwalker 01-20-06, 09:37 PM	some races with good dex: Githzerai(+6, La+2) catfolk(+4, LA +1, with access to catfolk pounce) Air goblin (+4, la+0) pixie (+8 ,LA +4, and invisibility for extra sneaking goodies) more to come