AoO tripping character Build [Archive] - Wizards Community

AoO tripping character Build [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
mexican
10-21-04, 06:03 PM I've been messing around with an 7-8th level character that I might want to introduce into a game.

His gimmick is revolving around provoking AoOs and getting free attacks out of it. If I understand the feats correctly, he should be able to go into total defense (+6 AC with 5 ranks of Tumble), and walk through threatened squares and provoke AoOs. Assuming a modest +4 dex, chain shirt, buckler, and the dodge feat, he should have a 29(30 for the one enemy and dodge feat) AC against these AoOs. For each missed attack, he gets a free trip attempt, and free attack if the trip attempt succeeds (from Imp Trip feat). Since the Cause Overreach feat of Elusive Target doesn't say that the free trip attempt uses an AoO like Defensive Throw, I assume I can get as many attacks as enemies I can reach/provoke, and I get +4 attack against them next round (Defensive Strike). Oh, and I'm working on using a Rapier here.

Here's the small build I've come up with so far, which seems to be the fastest I can get most of the feats. I chose human for the extra 1st level feat. I'm eventually looking to add Karmic Strike (if he does get hit he can still get a trip attempt or attack for an AoO) and Defensive Throw (for provoking in other manners). I'm also only using core and CW or CD here.

1st
Swashbuckler: Weapon Finesse, Dodge, Combat Expertise

2nd
Monk: Imp Unarmed, Flurry of Blows, Stunning Fist

3rd
Monk: Evasion, Combat Reflexes, Imp Trip

4th
Fighter: Mobility

5th
Fighter: Defensive Strike

6th
Swashbuckler: Grace+1

7th
Swashbuckler: Insightful Strike, Elusive Target (held off 6th lvl feat because of BAB prereq)

I'm not sure of where to go at this point. I was thinking perhaps Kensai would be a good choice for signature weapon and Power Surge. I was initially thinking of going Duelist, especially for the Enhanced Mobility feat, but nothing else until Precise Strike is appealing. The other thought is to start going Rogue and getting Sneak Attack for all of the post-trip attacks.

Perhaps someone here can find a faster feat build or would have post-7th level ideas on where to take the character. I'm open to other more optimal builds for the character as well.
carnivore
10-21-04, 06:06 PM this is a good idea however you may want to see this build as it will help a lot

http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=163005

:D
mexican
10-22-04, 12:35 AM this is a good idea however you may want to see this build as it will help a lot

http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=163005

:D

That does help a lot. Reminded me that spiked chain can be used up close, which is probably a good choice to make more use of AoOs. Might be worth it, even if it slows the progression down.

In either case, getting some armor spikes and using TWF sounds kind of appealing as well. Perhaps dropping swashbuckler and going high STR/DEX fighter and monk might work better.

I like the char concept here of being a more one-on-one specialist, moving directly into enemies faces and knocking them down. With dash, fast movement (Monk 3 or Barb 1), and boots of speed, that's a lot of potential attacks.
Antendren
10-22-04, 02:04 AM I'm pretty sure you don't get AOOs when you go total defense. The trips from Elusive Target and the resulting attacks from Imp. Trip should still happen, though.
catharz
10-22-04, 02:07 AM I'm pretty sure you don't get AOOs when you go total defense. The trips from Elusive Target and the resulting attacks from Imp. Trip should still happen, though.

I'm pretty sure that you do get to take AoOs in an all-out defense, which really isn't much different from any other full-round action. I mean, it makes sense that you would.

One feats seems to be missing: Karmic strike. Then again, if you're certain you won't ever get hit... Defensive attack is another good one.
Gorath
10-22-04, 04:53 AM The Gattling Chain Gun Tripper does not use a spiked chain. Snow uses a blunt chain from OA. Its a 10' reach weapon or a 5' double weapon for TWFing.
mexican
10-22-04, 10:23 AM Thanks for the responses.

I'm pretty sure you don't get AOOs when you go total defense. The trips from Elusive Target and the resulting attacks from Imp. Trip should still happen, though.

The key point was to go total defense for the +6 AC and provoke an AoO by walking out of a threatened square. Say you have monsters A, B, and C. Essentially, you would go total defense and whatever else you can use to boost AC, and in walking to C provoke AoOs from A and B by walking through threatened squares. Then use Cause Overreach (Elusive Target) to get free trip attempts.

One feats seems to be missing: Karmic strike. Then again, if you're certain you won't ever get hit... Defensive attack is another good one.

I wasn't able to add in Karmic Strike at this point of the build. I certainly intend on acquiring it as I think it is a very important feat for the character. At this point I was focusing on Total Defense, and I don't believe you can use Karmic Strike since the retributive attack is counted as an AoO (can't make AoOs in Total Defense :weep:). I suppose it can be added in place of Defensive Strike if one wants, then Def Strike acquired later (9th level or so).

The Gattling Chain Gun Tripper does not use a spiked chain. Snow uses a blunt chain from OA. Its a 10' reach weapon or a 5' double weapon for TWFing.

I realized that, but that is a weapon that I won't have access to. If I were to go for reach instead of straight up 5' melee, the spiked chain would be my best bet. As someone mentioned in the thread, one could always use a spiked chain and armor spikes for TWF, since the blunt chain would only be 5' for TWF anyway.

One new idea would work if you could use a standard action in place of a move-equivalent action. In that case, one could PrC into Dervish, and using the Dervish Dance they could go total defense, walk through squares provoking AoOs, and still have a non-trip triggered attack at the end. Only thing is that would require a slashing weapon (spiked chain is piercing), and the buckler would have to be ditched (+1 AC from Dervish makes up for it). However, the Dervish also gets Movement Mastery, Spring Attack, and an increasing Fast Movement bonus. If Fast Movement stacks (don't see why it wouldn't), taking a level of Barb would be very helpful. Also, since you still get an attack at the end of the Dervish Dance, you could instead Fight Defensively and use Combat Expertise instead of Total Defense and make your AC bonus +9 instead of +6. You would also be able to make AoOs since you aren't using Total Defense. Dervish also has good Ref and Will saves. That's something I'll have to play around with.
Gorath
10-22-04, 01:14 PM One thing you should remember is that your opponents do not need to make an AoO, so you need attacks of your own too.
AOG_Rogue
10-22-04, 03:24 PM 7th
Swashbuckler: Insightful Strike, Elusive Target (held off 6th lvl feat because of BAB prereq)

I dont have my rulebook in front of me, but you are not allowed to hold off selecting a feat. One of the rulebooks states exactly how you level up a character and feats must be selected at that time and cannot be deferred.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
mexican 10-21-04, 06:03 PM	I've been messing around with an 7-8th level character that I might want to introduce into a game. His gimmick is revolving around provoking AoOs and getting free attacks out of it. If I understand the feats correctly, he should be able to go into total defense (+6 AC with 5 ranks of Tumble), and walk through threatened squares and provoke AoOs. Assuming a modest +4 dex, chain shirt, buckler, and the dodge feat, he should have a 29(30 for the one enemy and dodge feat) AC against these AoOs. For each missed attack, he gets a free trip attempt, and free attack if the trip attempt succeeds (from Imp Trip feat). Since the Cause Overreach feat of Elusive Target doesn't say that the free trip attempt uses an AoO like Defensive Throw, I assume I can get as many attacks as enemies I can reach/provoke, and I get +4 attack against them next round (Defensive Strike). Oh, and I'm working on using a Rapier here. Here's the small build I've come up with so far, which seems to be the fastest I can get most of the feats. I chose human for the extra 1st level feat. I'm eventually looking to add Karmic Strike (if he does get hit he can still get a trip attempt or attack for an AoO) and Defensive Throw (for provoking in other manners). I'm also only using core and CW or CD here. 1st Swashbuckler: Weapon Finesse, Dodge, Combat Expertise 2nd Monk: Imp Unarmed, Flurry of Blows, Stunning Fist 3rd Monk: Evasion, Combat Reflexes, Imp Trip 4th Fighter: Mobility 5th Fighter: Defensive Strike 6th Swashbuckler: Grace+1 7th Swashbuckler: Insightful Strike, Elusive Target (held off 6th lvl feat because of BAB prereq) I'm not sure of where to go at this point. I was thinking perhaps Kensai would be a good choice for signature weapon and Power Surge. I was initially thinking of going Duelist, especially for the Enhanced Mobility feat, but nothing else until Precise Strike is appealing. The other thought is to start going Rogue and getting Sneak Attack for all of the post-trip attacks. Perhaps someone here can find a faster feat build or would have post-7th level ideas on where to take the character. I'm open to other more optimal builds for the character as well.
carnivore 10-21-04, 06:06 PM	this is a good idea however you may want to see this build as it will help a lot http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=163005 :D
mexican 10-22-04, 12:35 AM	this is a good idea however you may want to see this build as it will help a lot http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=163005 :D That does help a lot. Reminded me that spiked chain can be used up close, which is probably a good choice to make more use of AoOs. Might be worth it, even if it slows the progression down. In either case, getting some armor spikes and using TWF sounds kind of appealing as well. Perhaps dropping swashbuckler and going high STR/DEX fighter and monk might work better. I like the char concept here of being a more one-on-one specialist, moving directly into enemies faces and knocking them down. With dash, fast movement (Monk 3 or Barb 1), and boots of speed, that's a lot of potential attacks.
Antendren 10-22-04, 02:04 AM	I'm pretty sure you don't get AOOs when you go total defense. The trips from Elusive Target and the resulting attacks from Imp. Trip should still happen, though.
catharz 10-22-04, 02:07 AM	I'm pretty sure you don't get AOOs when you go total defense. The trips from Elusive Target and the resulting attacks from Imp. Trip should still happen, though. I'm pretty sure that you do get to take AoOs in an all-out defense, which really isn't much different from any other full-round action. I mean, it makes sense that you would. One feats seems to be missing: Karmic strike. Then again, if you're certain you won't ever get hit... Defensive attack is another good one.
Gorath 10-22-04, 04:53 AM	The Gattling Chain Gun Tripper does not use a spiked chain. Snow uses a blunt chain from OA. Its a 10' reach weapon or a 5' double weapon for TWFing.
mexican 10-22-04, 10:23 AM	Thanks for the responses. I'm pretty sure you don't get AOOs when you go total defense. The trips from Elusive Target and the resulting attacks from Imp. Trip should still happen, though. The key point was to go total defense for the +6 AC and provoke an AoO by walking out of a threatened square. Say you have monsters A, B, and C. Essentially, you would go total defense and whatever else you can use to boost AC, and in walking to C provoke AoOs from A and B by walking through threatened squares. Then use Cause Overreach (Elusive Target) to get free trip attempts. One feats seems to be missing: Karmic strike. Then again, if you're certain you won't ever get hit... Defensive attack is another good one. I wasn't able to add in Karmic Strike at this point of the build. I certainly intend on acquiring it as I think it is a very important feat for the character. At this point I was focusing on Total Defense, and I don't believe you can use Karmic Strike since the retributive attack is counted as an AoO (can't make AoOs in Total Defense :weep:). I suppose it can be added in place of Defensive Strike if one wants, then Def Strike acquired later (9th level or so). The Gattling Chain Gun Tripper does not use a spiked chain. Snow uses a blunt chain from OA. Its a 10' reach weapon or a 5' double weapon for TWFing. I realized that, but that is a weapon that I won't have access to. If I were to go for reach instead of straight up 5' melee, the spiked chain would be my best bet. As someone mentioned in the thread, one could always use a spiked chain and armor spikes for TWF, since the blunt chain would only be 5' for TWF anyway. One new idea would work if you could use a standard action in place of a move-equivalent action. In that case, one could PrC into Dervish, and using the Dervish Dance they could go total defense, walk through squares provoking AoOs, and still have a non-trip triggered attack at the end. Only thing is that would require a slashing weapon (spiked chain is piercing), and the buckler would have to be ditched (+1 AC from Dervish makes up for it). However, the Dervish also gets Movement Mastery, Spring Attack, and an increasing Fast Movement bonus. If Fast Movement stacks (don't see why it wouldn't), taking a level of Barb would be very helpful. Also, since you still get an attack at the end of the Dervish Dance, you could instead Fight Defensively and use Combat Expertise instead of Total Defense and make your AC bonus +9 instead of +6. You would also be able to make AoOs since you aren't using Total Defense. Dervish also has good Ref and Will saves. That's something I'll have to play around with.
Gorath 10-22-04, 01:14 PM	One thing you should remember is that your opponents do not need to make an AoO, so you need attacks of your own too.
AOG_Rogue 10-22-04, 03:24 PM	7th Swashbuckler: Insightful Strike, Elusive Target (held off 6th lvl feat because of BAB prereq) I dont have my rulebook in front of me, but you are not allowed to hold off selecting a feat. One of the rulebooks states exactly how you level up a character and feats must be selected at that time and cannot be deferred.