| Post/Author/DateTime | Post |
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| Xabre12-10-05, 12:29 PM | Alright, after realizing that I do indeed have a copy of Book of Exalted Deeds, I've been thinking about playing an Apostle of Peace. They seem like intresting characters from a rp perspective, and they have a strong selection of spells and powers for a 'goodly' character. Now I just have to decide HOW to get there. I'm torn between two classes. First class is Monk. With all of the abilities they get, not to mention the bonuses to AC, they seem the most likely choice for this. They won't feel the loss of weapons or armor as much, and don't need much else, really. However, I'm leaning towards the Cloistered Cleric variant from Unearthed Arcana. Since it's OGL, I can explain it... d6 HD, Wizard BAB, 6+Int skill points, adding Decipher Script, Speak Languages, and all Knowledge Skills to the list. They lose medium and heavy armor proficiency, lose proficiency with shields. They get to choose two Domains, and get the Knowledge Domain as a third automatically. They also gain a bunch of neutral/divination/buff spells to their list. Oh, and they get Bardic Knowledge. Basicaly, less fight, more scholar. Now, taking the Cloistered Cleric gives me access to magic right off, which means I can take Exalted Feats that improve spellcasting (Words of Creation come to mind) as well as being able to stack the turning undead bonus that the Apostle gets. My first level is pretty much set in stone (or close to it)... as a Human, I take Sacred Vow, plus Vow of Poverty. I take the Shaky and Noncombatant flaws (the latter works MUCH better with the Cleric than the monk), granting me two more feats, plus the bonus Vow feat... granting me three to work with. Vow of Nonviolence and Peace are musts (stacking all the exalted AC bonuses are nice), and then probably Spell Focus (Good). If I'm going Monk instead of Cleric, Dodge. From there, the feats obviously are similiar based on the class, but different as well. The monk would take the Mobility Tree, plus some of the Exalted Ki feats, and possibly Touch of Golden Ice. The Cleric would take Exalted Turning. Both will get Servant of the Heavens at some point. (The Cleric will worshop Erathaol, the monk will revere Psitis). Also, at some point I'd like ALL of the Vows to appear on the character. This is also the type of character who I could push towards a Sainthood. Now the biggest problem, I think, becomes choosing the class to start with. Once I figure that out, i can start assigning feats and such based on which one is most helpful. Thoughts? |
| ninjarabbit12-10-05, 12:42 PM | The problem with using cleric to get into AoP is that your cleric spellcasting gets gimped once you get into it. If you want to go the spellcaster route I'd suggest bard. a bard8/AoP2/sublimechord2/mystictheurge8 gets you 9th level divine and arcane spells and you could throw in nymph's kiss for good measure. |
| AramilWindwalker12-10-05, 01:23 PM | not mention that a cleric needs a holy stmbol to cast spells, something conspicuously missing from the VoP allowed items, some dms may allow a wooden one, or getting a tatooed holy symbol, but it's really up to the dm. ''Edit: please note that druid however is fine, as a sprig of holly and mistletoe can be pulled off a bush for free, and is all that is needed to cast, along with the allowed spell component pouch, plus druid/monks that are VoP are kinda sick, or even the variant druid that gives up wildshape for monk ac and ranger favored enemies is a good choice too, using a shillelagh as your weapon. |
| Xabre12-10-05, 07:58 PM | I don't know... I'd deffinitely allow a holy symbol. After all... a VoP character can take a big metal mace... but not a holy symbol? Hell, by the RAW, you could even take a silver dagger (it's not MW after all)... why not a silver holy symbol? On the other hand, if you DO take a silver holy symbol, you better have one of the Exalted 'Worshipper' feats as that first bonus feat... just to show your utter dedication. I see know problem at all with a wooden holy symbol, no questions asked. Hell, if you really wanted to, you could have a staff with a holy symbol carved in the crown or whathaveyou... All things considered, I think Monk is the best choice... and maybe not even taking Apostle. Just Monk with all the vows. |
| jedrious12-10-05, 09:34 PM | alright take shakey and noncombatant Illumian UurNaen 1 Divine Bard 1 Sacred Vow, Vow of Poverty, Vow of Nonviolence, Practiced SPellcaster(Divine Bard) 2 Spirit Shaman 1 Vow of Peace 3 Cleric 1 Practiced Spellcaster (Spirit Shaman) 4 Healer 1 Vow of Chastity 5 Favored Soul 1 6 Shugenja 1 Vow of Abstinence, Practiced Spellcaster(Cleric) 7 Non-Wildshape Druid 1 8 Apostle of Peace 1 Vow of Purity 9 Apostle of Peace 2 Practiced Spellcaster(Healer) 10 Apostle of Peace 3 Vow of Obedience 11 Apostle of Peace 4 12 Apostle of Peace 5 Words of Creation, Practiced Spellcaster(Favored Soul) 13 Apostle of Peace 6 14 Apostle of Peace 7 Nimbus of Light 15 Apostle of Peace 8 Practiced Spellcaster(Shugenja) 16 Apostle of Peace 9 Knight of Stars 17 Apostle of Peace 10 18 Wonderworker 1 Holy Radiance, Stigmata, Practiced Spellcaster(Druid) 19 Wonderworker 2 Animal Friend 20 Wonderworker 3 Gift of Faith, Exalted Turning |
| Xabre12-10-05, 10:10 PM | Fairly complicated... can you elaborate (locations of classes, etc?) |
| jedrious12-10-05, 10:36 PM | alright take shakey and noncombatant Illumian UurNaen{Races Of Destiny} 1 Divine Bard{Unearthed Arcana} 1 Sacred Vow, Vow of Poverty, Vow of Nonviolence, Practiced SPellcaster(Divine Bard) 2 Spirit Shaman{Complete Divine} 1 Vow of Peace 3 Cleric 1 Practiced Spellcaster (Spirit Shaman) 4 Healer{Miniature's Handbook} 1 Vow of Chastity 5 Favored Soul{Complete Dvine} 1 6 Shugenja{Complete Divine} 1 Vow of Abstinence, Practiced Spellcaster(Cleric) 7 Non-Wildshape Druid{Unearthed Arcana} 1 8 Apostle of Peace{Book of Exalted Deeds} 1 Vow of Purity 9 Apostle of Peace 2 Practiced Spellcaster(Healer) 10 Apostle of Peace 3 Vow of Obedience 11 Apostle of Peace 4 12 Apostle of Peace 5 Words of Creation, Practiced Spellcaster(Favored Soul) 13 Apostle of Peace 6 14 Apostle of Peace 7 Nimbus of Light 15 Apostle of Peace 8 Practiced Spellcaster(Shugenja) 16 Apostle of Peace 9 Knight of Stars 17 Apostle of Peace 10 18 Wonderworker{Book of Exalted Deeds} 1 Holy Radiance, Stigmata, Practiced Spellcaster(Druid) 19 Wonderworker 2 Animal Friend 20 Wonderworker 3 Gift of Faith, Exalted Turning ok Elaboration, I've inserted source boos for the classes, anyway the Uur sigil for the Illumian adds 2 caster levels to all of your spellcasting classes to a maximum of your character level, practiced spellcaster adds 4 to the specified class's caster level to a maximum of you character level, so you have 7 classes each with a caster level of 7, now Apostle f Peace has a caster level equal to your Apostle of Peace levels plus half of you caster level from all other classes, so we have 10 + (7*7)/2=10 + (49)/2=10+24=34, so your Apostle of Peace has a caster level of 34 with all spell levels, enjoy |
| Malfean12-11-05, 07:43 AM | I actually was wondering EXACTLY THE SAME things as you did one month ago. In the end i choose monk over cloistered cleric, your turning will suffer but you can use divine metamagic persistent to use the turning attempts. I would go monk6/survivor1(savage species)/apostle of peace10/saint template(hey if this guy isn't a saint then who is???). When you have enough xp to advance a level you should be able to convince your dm to let you loose a level and gain the saint template. Remember with the saint template you add double your wisdom modifier to AC. One time from the monk and one from the saint. Key abilities wisdom and constitution then charisma and dexterity. Problem if you want 2 practiced spellcaster and extend spell, persistent spell and divine metamagic then you have a problem. You could try to convince your dm to allow you to take extend spell at level 6 since it has absolutely no prequisites. |
| Xabre12-11-05, 01:26 PM | Ok.... where does Divine Metamagic come from? Jedrious that is... a very unique character. It's the best I can say. I'll have to look at it all a bit more... it just seems... well, very intresting. Wow. That's a lot of casting. My spell list will be rather... complicated. I have to say that that build seems pretty good for an Apostle... I think maybe monk would work better all by itself, without the Apostle at all. |
| Ander Spectacular12-11-05, 02:46 PM | Just a note about VoNV...you can't use the Touch of Golden Ice because it does damage. I would look at either a bard/paladin, a bard/marshall, or monk/paladin for your entrance to AoP. Oh yeah, that Illumian caster level stuff is just silly...and pretty much on all fronts. And your casting for all those classes would suck. You would be casting basically as a first level whatever for all of those(unless the Illumian stuff changes that). I understand the idea but overall it is goofy. -AS- |
| PonTelon12-11-05, 02:54 PM | If you want to go the spellcaster route I'd suggest bard. a bard8/AoP2/sublimechord2/mystictheurge8 gets you 9th level divine and arcane spells and you could throw in nymph's kiss for good measure. I second! Though I'd rather: Bard 6/Mindbender[Complete Arcane] 1/YYY 1/AoP2/Sublime Cord 2/Mystic Theurge 8 YYY can be anything. |
| Tweedledope12-11-05, 03:33 PM | Okay...first of all, never...EVER...take Apostle of Peace past 4th level. You get nothing. It's like the 5th level of Fighter. I always recommend you to stop at 2nd level (Censure Fiends isn't that good). My favorite build (slightly modified version of Warlord Griffin's) Monk 5/Paladin 2/Apostle of Peace 2/Contemplative 9/Mystic Wanderer 2 This is assuming you can buy off the Saint's LA. If you can't, you'll need to remove 3 class levels there. I've played that build before and it is outrageously good. Your saves are second to none, your AC is sky high, I always take two flaws at first level (Shaky and Murky-Eyed) to get Vow of Poverty/Non-Violence and Peace at first level. You've gotta be a human to do that though. There are only two stats you really need to focus on. Charisma and Wisdom. With feats like Intuitive Strike, you can beat the hell out of people with non-lethal damage all day long and not break your vows. You could, alternatively, use Stunning Fist to subdue them. Don't ever forget about your Calming Aura either, it's great. Apostle of Peace is my favorite and I really like that build. -=TD=- |
| jstorrie12-11-05, 04:49 PM | I second! Though I'd rather: Bard 6/Mindbender[Complete Arcane] 1/YYY 1/AoP2/Sublime Cord 2/Mystic Theurge 8 Exalted characters can't be mindbenders. |
| gabrion12-11-05, 05:26 PM | As tweedledope points out, don't fool with AoP after second level. Contemplative is the perfect PrC for this kind of build, since you really lack in spell selection, so extra domains are your friend. I played a character like this and picked up the renewal domain since the 8th level spell is PaO. With the saint template, that opens up options like the sword archon, which is just cool. Anyway, to the initial question, I'm actually a big fan of using monk with a paladin dip for this kind of character. He is going to be largely a defensive type, so picking up divine grace is always nice. |
| Tweedledope12-11-05, 05:28 PM | By the way, never discredit using Cobra Strike monk. The Dodge Bonuses to AC stack quite well. -=TD=- |
| Xabre12-11-05, 08:44 PM | Hmm... SO many different takes on this. I don't have the Miniatures Handbook, so that level of Healer is completely unknown to me. What about using Cloistered Cleric in there, for the bonus Knowledge Domain? It's still kind of messy... Blech. I'll need to look at it some more when I can. |
| Xabre12-11-05, 08:47 PM | Monk 5/Paladin 2/Apostle of Peace 2/Contemplative 9/Mystic Wanderer 2 There are only two stats you really need to focus on. Charisma and Wisdom. With feats like Intuitive Strike, you can beat the hell out of people with non-lethal damage all day long and not break your vows. You could, alternatively, use Stunning Fist to subdue them. Don't ever forget about your Calming Aura either, it's great. Apostle of Peace is my favorite and I really like that build. -=TD=- 1) Where's Mystic Wanderer and Contemplatie from? I believe MW is also Exalted? I don't have books in front of me. 2) Intuitve Strike? I probably have it somewhere... but can't remember sources. So basically, this is the 'defensive combat' version of the above spellcasters... |
| Tweedledope12-11-05, 10:24 PM | 1) Where's Mystic Wanderer and Contemplatie from? I believe MW is also Exalted? I don't have books in front of me. 2) Intuitve Strike? I probably have it somewhere... but can't remember sources. So basically, this is the 'defensive combat' version of the above spellcasters... Mystic Wanderer is from Magic of Faerun. It has no ties to the campaign (aside from being in that book) and it is an un-updated 3.0 class (easy conversion though. The 2 levels is for Cha to AC. Contemplative is from the Complete Divine. It works perfectly for the AoP because it gives 3 bonus domains...very nice. Intuitive Strike is from the BoED. It allows you to use your Wisdom to attack (instead of your strength) with simple weapons and/or unarmed strikes. But yeah, it's the Defensive AoP...there really isn't such a thing as an "offensive" apostle. It really is an excellent build. Once finals are over at university, I'll post a breakdown build for you. For now, I go back to studying social psychology. -=TD=- |
| jedrious12-11-05, 11:00 PM | umm, let's see all good saves, no sacrificing feats for prc prereqs, granted domains default to being granted to cleric before any other classes, hmmm, nope can't think of a single reason to stay with AoP for all 10 levels |
| Tweedledope12-11-05, 11:49 PM | umm, let's see all good saves, no sacrificing feats for prc prereqs, granted domains default to being granted to cleric before any other classes, hmmm, nope can't think of a single reason to stay with AoP for all 10 levels ...and NO abilities gained. You don't get domains, you don't get anything besides quick spellcasting. You are already getting feats out your cornpipe (from VoPoverty) so why the hell would you be burning feats...honestly, don't take 10 levels of Apostle of Peace. It's akin to taking the fifth level of fighter...people on these boards will strangle you to the ground for doing so. AT MOST, take 4 levels. -=TD=- |
| jedrious12-12-05, 12:25 AM | ...and NO abilities gained. You don't get domains, you don't get anything besides quick spellcasting. You are already getting feats out your cornpipe (from VoPoverty) so why the hell would you be burning feats...honestly, don't take 10 levels of Apostle of Peace. It's akin to taking the fifth level of fighter...people on these boards will strangle you to the ground for doing so. AT MOST, take 4 levels. -=TD=- granted domains are given to cleric as per complete divine, I have exalted feats to spare, however the number of exalted prcs that work with the alignment restrictions and noncombative nature of the build and requires no non-exalted feats |
| Tweedledope12-12-05, 12:43 AM | granted domains are given to cleric as per complete divine, I have exalted feats to spare, however the number of exalted prcs that work with the alignment restrictions and noncombative nature of the build and requires no non-exalted feats Okay....apparently you're not reading my build. 1) I never use Cleric in my build. So, your argument about Domains going to Clerics is moot. 2) The only PrC I use except for Apostle of Peace is Contemplative and Mystic Wanderer...both of which are VERY easy to get into and require minimal feats. 3) Any exalted PrC requires you to be of the Good alignment...it's in their description. I would have to be lawful good...that gets me into most Exalted PrCs; that is, if I took them. And, after taking a look at your build: unless Illumians have favored class (any) you are going to have LOTS of fun with an XP penalty. You will also have tons of fun with (adds quickly) I believe a +7 BAB. I see your idea...to use Practiced Spellcaster until you're blue in the face. However, in the end, you're going to have spell lists that are outrageously overcrowded, you are pretty much worthless until you achieve your nice spells from Apostle of Peace. At least my build is viably playable at every level and simply builds with power up into higher levels. -=TD=- |
| jedrious12-12-05, 12:52 AM | Tweed, 1. I'm refering to my build, 2. even if Illumians didn't have favored class any there would be no xp penalty since no non-prc is taken beyond level 1, 3. personal attacks on me will not be accepted |
| Tweedledope12-12-05, 01:01 AM | Tweed, 1. I'm refering to my build, 2. even if Illumians didn't have favored class any there would be no xp penalty since no non-prc is taken beyond level 1, 3. personal attacks on me will not be accepted I apologize if you feel this is a personal attack but, I still fail to see how your build is playable. You have no BAB for about...7 levels. You have no more than 1st level casting for the same amount of levels. Your skills are relatively weak (no more than 4 per level IIRC) Your HD suffer as well Perhaps played at level 20 your build could shine but, it isn't hardly playable before that. -=TD=- |
| Malfean12-12-05, 04:00 AM | Contemplative is from the Complete Divine. It works perfectly for the AoP because it gives 3 bonus domains...very nice. -=TD=- 3 bonus domains!!! How? Am i missing something? Keep in mind that the abilities the contempative grants are not so impressive for a character with your saves. Considering this i don't think 9 levels of contemplative are worth it, plus you get the immunity to diseases from the monk levels. You should take enough levels to gain the three (or one) bonus domains. and then return back to apostole of peace. Hm maybe the build should be like this (if you don't have access to mystic wanderer): Monk5/Paladin2/AoP9/Contemplative1/monk1 (saint) EDIT: stupid comment about using a contemplative level to advance paladin spellcasting removed |
| Lusden Veharo12-12-05, 04:45 AM | Stick with Contemplative. Over those 9 levels, you get three bonus domains. Unrestricted bonus domains. Domains are good, the rest of the stuff you get is icing. Apostle of Peace gets...three good saves. Not that the good Reflex save matters, since even at half damage you're shafted-much better to directly protect against energy. You've already got good Will, and possibly good Fort, from Contemplative. It doesn't even come close to matching up. |
| Xabre12-12-05, 08:10 AM | Sadly, I left all of my reference material at home... I had prepped everything so I could take a look at it all today, and then left it. Bah! Therefore, I have to just start asking questions... 1) Do you take all of the Monk before Paladin? Otherwise, you're gonna need some Monastic Training (or whatever the feat is from Eberron that lets you cross class monk/paladin). If I play the character in the Realms, a few of the gods allow the multiclass of Paladins, while a few Monk orders alow the same... but usually limiting which classes are involved. 2) I have Mystic Wanderer at home, so I can take a look at that... I've always liked the MoF book. 3) Same with Contemplative. However, if there's No Cleric in any of my build, how does the spellcasting and domians work? I'm taking a guess that the Contemplative is a '+1 spellcaster' class, which I'd assume then is tacked on to the Apostle of Peace (because 9 +1s will get me all the Apostle spells)... however, I guess it co uld be it's own list... And then the Domains would... what? just give me the Domain powers, but not the spells, since I have no Cleric levels? Forgive my ignorance... I simply have never worked with such cross-class heavy builds before involving spellcasting. Btw, Tweedle... as far as I can tell, if you're human, you DON'T need two flaws... the second flaw is gravy. Two human feats give you Sacred Vow and Vow of Poverty, one flaw gets you Nonviolence, and the VoP feat gets you Peace. A second flaw, as I said, is simply extra. Monk seems the most realistic class to start with, so I have the massive AC right off the bat... Luck of the Heroes might be a good one to take to REALLY stack the deck even further, or perhaps Dodge. Servant of the Heavens might be nice, too. |
| Tweedledope12-12-05, 01:25 PM | You're right, only one flaw is needed. But, with the type of character you are going for (Peace) why not take another one for an extra feat. -=TD=- |
| Xabre12-12-05, 01:48 PM | When should I take Paladin? After I'm completely done with Monk? Otherwise I need the Monastic Training feat... |
| jedrious12-12-05, 01:59 PM | When should I take Paladin? After I'm completely done with Monk? Otherwise I need the Monastic Training feat... as oon as you want to have all the training to violate your vows |
| Tweedledope12-12-05, 02:00 PM | I take all the levels of Monk (which is very nice at lower levels and thus, better to play from level 1) and then the levels of Charisma. Alternatively, you could take Paladin levels first to obtain Cha to AC (Divine Grace) and then jump over to Monk. I usually go Monk first, then paladin...and, yeah, you get the idea. The Monastic Training feat isn't really necessary if you take monk first. Take paladin first and you get to smite an extra time/day. -=TD=- |
| Malfean12-12-05, 02:17 PM | Stick with Contemplative. Over those 9 levels, you get three bonus domains. Unrestricted bonus domains. Domains are good, the rest of the stuff you get is icing. Apostle of Peace gets...three good saves. Not that the good Reflex save matters, since even at half damage you're shafted-much better to directly protect against energy. You've already got good Will, and possibly good Fort, from Contemplative. It doesn't even come close to matching up. Ok i just read contemplative again and saw he gets another domain at 6 level. So it is 2 extra domains not 3? Right? I honestly can't see how he gets the third one... |
| Tweedledope12-12-05, 02:31 PM | Ok i just read contemplative again and saw he gets another domain at 6 level. So it is 2 extra domains not 3? Right? I honestly can't see how he gets the third one... It might only be 2 extra (don't have my CD with me right now) but, either way, that's superior to...nothing which is what you'd get from AoP 10. -=TD=- |
| Xabre12-12-05, 02:39 PM | I think someone sounds slightly bitter. Besides, that's like saying that a Knight that wants to defend the innocent would do better by not fighting back... This is a character who has perfected himself, and in the process, has found that the on ly way to keep the peace is to defeat (note, I didn't say kill) those that threaten it. But that's background, and not the optimization. And as mentioned, that rather complicated build that you put together, Jed, is gonna be... weird, because all of those classes I'll never have more than a level's worth of magic from. |
| Xabre12-13-05, 07:28 AM | Ok Tweedle, I found a problem with your build. It's illegal. Mystic Wanderer requires NONLAWFUL allignment. So you lose all paladin and monk abilities pulling it off. |
| Tweedledope12-13-05, 08:33 AM | Ok Tweedle, I found a problem with your build. It's illegal. Mystic Wanderer requires NONLAWFUL allignment. So you lose all paladin and monk abilities pulling it off. There ya go. I've never actually played the Mystic Wanderer build, it just looked intersting. Since that doesn't work, throw in a couple levels of Sacred Fist instead, it has nice synergy. Good catch Xabre. -=TD=- |
| Xabre12-13-05, 08:41 AM | Yeah, 2 levels of that would work... although if my math is correct with everything, by that point I've reached +11 level spellcasting... but my only spellcasting class is either Paladin (eh) or Apostle of Peace (good spells, but only 10 levels, and I'd be at level 12 with two of its own levels). I suppose I could use Contemplative to bump Apostle up to level 10, and then use Sacred Fist to upgrade Paladin... but honestly, I'd only end up with maybe level one paladin spells. It might make more sense to go Monk 6/Paladin 3 Apostle 2/Contemplative 9 (or even Monk 7 and Contemplative 8). So at Monk 5/Paladin 2/Postle 2/Contemplative 9/Sacred Fist 2 |
| epifreak12-13-05, 09:50 AM | This is a character who has perfected himself, and in the process, has found that the on ly way to keep the peace is to defeat (note, I didn't say kill) those that threaten it. In that case, you should definitely pick up non-lethal substitution from BoED; good luck explaining that non-lethal flame-strike, though ;) |
| Xabre12-13-05, 09:57 AM | Hmm. Never considered that. Apostle of Peace doesn't really have any sort of offensive spells, so I didn't think it would matter. Considering that the Apostle already has the Vow of Peace in the requirements, there's NO WAY that it's spells will be offensive, unless it's something where you kill yourself to do damage... And since there are no cleric levels in this build (unless I choose to make the Contemplative levels just act as +1 Cleric spellcasting), Flame Strike and similar don't come into play. |
| epifreak12-14-05, 01:12 AM | Hmm. Never considered that. Apostle of Peace doesn't really have any sort of offensive spells, so I didn't think it would matter. Considering that the Apostle already has the Vow of Peace in the requirements, there's NO WAY that it's spells will be offensive, unless it's something where you kill yourself to do damage... And since there are no cleric levels in this build (unless I choose to make the Contemplative levels just act as +1 Cleric spellcasting), Flame Strike and similar don't come into play. I just figured you might want to be viable in combat, and given that you can deal nonlethal damage (provided you don't let the party coup-de-grace the unconcious victim) I thought that it would be ideal. I wasn't speaking specific to any build mentioned, more of an in-general statement that this would work well. |
| gabrion12-14-05, 01:56 AM | Hmm. Never considered that. Apostle of Peace doesn't really have any sort of offensive spells, so I didn't think it would matter. Considering that the Apostle already has the Vow of Peace in the requirements, there's NO WAY that it's spells will be offensive, unless it's something where you kill yourself to do damage... And since there are no cleric levels in this build (unless I choose to make the Contemplative levels just act as +1 Cleric spellcasting), Flame Strike and similar don't come into play. Well don't forget that you have access to sanctified spells. They hurt to cast, but a few of them have some good damage output if you really need it (Hammer of Righteousness comes to mind, especially with a silly build that twinks out caster level). |
| Malfean12-14-05, 01:58 PM | Yeah, 2 levels of that would work... although if my math is correct with everything, by that point I've reached +11 level spellcasting... but my only spellcasting class is either Paladin (eh) or Apostle of Peace (good spells, but only 10 levels, and I'd be at level 12 with two of its own levels). I suppose I could use Contemplative to bump Apostle up to level 10, and then use Sacred Fist to upgrade Paladin... but honestly, I'd only end up with maybe level one paladin spells. It might make more sense to go Monk 6/Paladin 3 Apostle 2/Contemplative 9 (or even Monk 7 and Contemplative 8). So at Monk 5/Paladin 2/Postle 2/Contemplative 9/Sacred Fist 2 Sacred Fist is a good idea. Don't waste though spellcasting levels to paladin... Will your dm allow you to buy of the LA from the saint? If not based on your build you should go Monk6/Paladin2/Apostole2/ Contemplative6/Sacred Fist2. I am pretty much convinced now you get only 2 extra domains from the contemplative. If your dm allows you to buy off the LA then maybe two more levels in monk would be better? Though i must say Apostole4 instead of Sacred fist 2 in the above build, is not a bad option. Mainly for two reasons:a) To get in sacred fist you must "waste" a feat in combat casting and b) Censure fiends is an intresting ability; maybe not that great but useful nonetheless. |
| Xabre12-14-05, 02:27 PM | I only end up with one question again... if I go Monk 6/Paladin 4/Apostle 4/Contemplative 6 (assuming Buying off the Saint)... how does the Contemplative get bonus Domains on the Apostle's spell list? |
| Malfean12-14-05, 06:13 PM | In complete divine, in the beginning of the chapter with prestige classes threre is a section devoted to explaining what happens to spellcasters who gain domains. I believe it says that spellcasters who memorize spells and gain domains instantly add the domain spells to their spells known. You should check it out yourself I think. |