Post/Author/DateTime	Post
CS_Buddy 12-02-03, 01:34 PM	Most Annoying Medkit Ever! (Apostle of Peace/Sacred Exorcist) Clr - Cleric, AoP - Apostle of Peace (Book of Exaulted Deeds), SaE - Sacred Exorcist Normal Feat, [Ability From Vow of Poverty] Human Cleric of Pelor (Domains: Healing, Sun) - Lawful Good Clr1 - Sacred Vow, Vow of Poverty, [Nymph's Kiss] Clr2 - [Vow of Nonviolence] Clr3 - Intiuitive Attack Clr4 - [Vow of Peace], +1 Wis Clr5 - Clr6 - Subduing Strike, [Nimbus of Light] Clr7 - [+2 Wis] AoP1 - +1 Wis, [Holy Radiance] AoP2 - Empower Turning AoP3 - [Words of Creation] AoP4 - [+2 Wis, +2 Cha] SaE1 - +1 Wis, Heighten Turning, Exorcism Prestige Domain, [Stigmata] SaE2 - SaE3 - Extra Turning (SaE) [Vow of Obedience] SaE4 - Divine Vigor SaE5 - +1 Wis, [+2 Wis, +2 Cha, +2 Dex], [Sanctify Weapon] SaE6 - Extra Turning (SaE) SaE7 - Spell Focus (Good), [Vow of Purity] SaE8 - [+2 Wis, +2 Cha, +2 Dex, +2 Con] SaE9 - +1 Wis, Extra Turning (SaE) Good points about this build: -Insane AC and ability scores - bonuses from Vow of Poverty, Magic Vestment, Stat enhancing spells, etc. Extra skill points from Nymph's Kiss, and great bonuses to all Cha based skills and checks (Turning?). Vow of Peace and Apostle of Peace "Calm Emotions" ability will make it hard to attack this character, and a chance the weapon will shatter when it hits the character as well. -Wisdom added to hit, as well as Strength. Won't do a lot of damage, but that's OK- good for touch attacks (Heal on Undead, etc). -FULL Turning as a Cleric of all levels. Both Apostle of Peace and Sacred Exorcist add their levels to effective Cleric levels to determine turning level. -With Heighten Turning, once per day you can turn (and destroy) almost any undead by adding almost all the damage to your turning roll. From the Sun domain power, that undead is automatically destroyed. -Nimbus of Light will damage undead, and Consecrated Presence (Sacred Exorcist) will increase turning checks. Exalted Turning will add to turning damage. -Censure Fiends as character level to affect most powerful fiend, but only AoP level for turning damage. -Sacred Exorcist prerequisite filled at 4th level AoP- you get Dismissal as a 4th level AoP spell. Last level of AoP you'd want to take anyway. After that, the Sacred Exorcist spell levels add to Apostle of Peace levels until effective 10th level AoP, then can add to Cleric again. -Will have 10th level AoP spells (9th level spells), and effective 10th level cleric spells (5th level spells). Now for the bad news: -Cannot possess any items other than simple weapons and others described in Vow of Poverty. Use Sling and Quarterstaff. Use Spikes on the staff and Subduing Strike. -Cannot attack and do real damage (-4 to hit to do subdual damage until get Subduing Strike) -Bad BAB from all the multiclassing (oh well, you'll have Divine Power as a 4th level Cleric Spell anyway) -Effective Apostle of Peace Caster Level will be Apostle of Peace Level + (1/2 all other spellcasting classes). So the levels of Sacred Exorcist that advance AoP spells will only count for half caster level for AoP. Is it worth it? Other: I'm wondering if it might be a good idea to take one or two levels of monk first to get the Stunning Fist attacks and Wisdom to AC. Since in 3.5 Stunning Fist works on Character level, it would fit this character very well, and would allow me to do Subdual damage without having to take a feat to not suffer the -4 penalty. Since all my ability score increases are going to Wisdom, that would add quite a bit to my AC as well. I'm looking to find a way to take the exalted feats for a monk's ki strike like Sanctify Ki Strike, and Holy Ki Strike, but I can't find a way to get the Ki Strike (Lawful) prerequisite. I play 3.0E usually, so I'd be converting all the (lawful) etc to just +1 effective bonuses, so I might be able to do it from the exalted bonuses to weapon hit/damage Vow of Poverty gives. Also wondering if it might be good to take the full 10 levels of Apostle of Peace so that Censure Fiends will have full effectiveness. Since full character level is used to determine the most powerful fiend that can be censured, but only Apostle of Peace level used to determine censuring damage, if Sacred Exorcist is taken after 4th level AoP, the most powerful fiend that can be turned is (2d6+4+Charisma) HD. Not sure if Nymph's kiss would add +2 to Turning or Censuring. It is a type of Charisma check as far as I can see. Also, the Caster Level issue seems to be the only dampening factor. I'm not sure how big of a deal this will play, considering the +4 bonus from Vow of Nonviolence on your spell saves, as long as it isn't causing damage. Can also keep my caster level up +1 from the Healing domain. This character is very defensive minded, and a support character for the party. I don't expect him to do much damage, but he'll be a really good healer, undead/outsider turner (bonuses from Sacred Exorcist). I'm tired of playing the medkit, so this guy would make things VERY interesting- since if my fellow players go hogwild in slaughter they'll feel bad about it (Vow of Peace morale penalty), and I'd probably refuse healing. I'll go into combat doing only subdual damage, and thow myself onto the fallen enemies if my comrades try to Coup De Gras or kill them while they are helpless. It'll be like having a passive paladin in the party. I'd love to get some feedback on this character- things to change. I'd like to find a way to get the character spell resistance, but I don't know if that'll be possible without losing turning abilities. Also, looking at ways to get prestiege domains like Glory and Mysticism, but I don't think that's possible either. Might want to choose better domains, but I'm not sure which deity would be good. I play in Faerun a lot, so I'll have lots to choose from.
CS_Buddy 12-02-03, 05:49 PM	:bump: no comments?
Setanos 12-02-03, 06:53 PM	-Insane AC and ability scores - bonuses from Vow of Poverty, Magic Vestment, Unfortunately the AC bonus from VoP and Magic vestment do not stack. Magic Vestment gives you an enhancement bonus to your armor's AC, which for a set of clothes is 0, for a total of +1-+5 armor bonus from your vestments. Armor bonuses will not stack with VoP's Exalted bonus to Ac.
CS_Buddy 12-02-03, 07:28 PM	Would a Monk's Wisdom to AC stack with the AC bonuses from VoP?
CS_Buddy 12-02-03, 08:38 PM	Just noticed I won't need Cosmopolitan to qualify for Sacred Exorcist- Apostle of Peace gets all Knowledge skills as class skills =) So I'll switch it out for Empower Turning. I wonder if Divine Might is worth taking- I'd need power attack, but I'd add a nice bonus to my damage rolls, and with the amount of turning attemps I'd get from all the Extra Turning feats from Sacred Exorcist, it might be worth it.... as long as the damage is subdual.
Setanos 12-02-03, 08:49 PM	Would a Monk's Wisdom to AC stack with the AC bonuses from VoP? Yup, a monks bonus is unnamed, and would stack with an Exalted bonus from VoP.
CS_Buddy 12-03-03, 03:01 AM	I'm definitely thinking of changing level 1 to Monk, and level 6 to Mystic Wanderer. I can take out Subduing Strike and add in Iron Will instead (Mystic Wanderer Prereq). The skill requirements for Mystic Wanderer are really low, and making these changes I sacrifice 1 caster level in Cleric, and 2 levels Turning, but I get my Wisdom and Charisma to AC (which stack with everything from VoP). I also get Stunning Attack which fits nicely with the character, and I can attack unarmed and do Subdual damage at my option. The "Sleep" spell-like ability I'd get from Mystic Wanderer isn't that great - at low levels it might be useful, but it would be better for effect and fits nicely with the character. If I get attacked by wild animals, I can calm them, and put them to sleep, instead of using violence. I like it already =) I'll update the level/feat progression tomorrow night. I really want to try playing this character, but I doubt my DM would go for it.
CS_Buddy 12-08-03, 02:18 AM	Revised Build – “Defender of the Faithful”- Monk/Cleric of Ilmater.(Faerun) or Pelor (Oerth) Clr – Cleric AoP - Apostle of Peace (Book of Exalted Deeds) SaE - Sacred Exorcist (Defenders of the Faith) MyW – Mystic Wanderer (Magic of Faerun) Normal Feat, [Ability From Vow of Poverty] Human Cleric (Domains: Healing, Good or Healing, Sun) - Lawful Good -> Neutral Good Mnk1 - Sacred Vow, Vow of Poverty, [Nymph's Kiss], Stunning Fist (Monk), IUA (Monk) Clr1 - [Vow of Nonviolence] Clr2 - Iron Will Clr3 - [Vow of Peace], +1 Wis Clr4 - Clr5 - Power Attack, [Intuitive Attack] MyW1 - [+2 Wis], Glory of the Divine (Cha to AC) AoP1 - +1 Wis, [Sanctify Ki Strike] AoP2 - Divine Might AoP3 - [Fist of the Heavens] AoP4 - [+2 Wis, +2 Cha] SaE1 - +1 Wis, Exalted Turning, Exorcism Prestige Domain, [Holy Ki Strike] SaE2 - SaE3 - Extra Turning (SaE) [Nimbus of Light] SaE4 - Empower Turning, [+2 Wis, +2 Cha, +2 Dex] SaE5 - +1 Wis, [Holy Radiance], Consecrated Presence SaE6 - Extra Turning (SaE) SaE7 - Heighten Turning, [Stigmata] SaE8 - [+2 Wis, +2 Cha, +2 Dex, +2 Con] SaE9 - +1 Wis, Extra Turning (SaE), [Words of Creation] Exalted Feats Regular Feats ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 01. Nymph’s Kiss 01. Sacred Vow, Vow of Poverty 02. Vow of Nonviolence 03. Iron Will 04. Vow of Peace 06. Power Attack 06. Intuitive Attack 09. Divine Might 08. Sanctify Ki Strike 12. Exalted Turning 10. Fist of the Heavens 15. Empower Turning 12. Holy Ki Strike 18. Heighten Turning 14. Nimbus of Light 16. Holy Radiance 18. Stigmata 20. Words of Creation This build is based on starting off as a Lawful Good monk, and then eventually changing to Neutral Good to allow for the Mystic Wanderer level. Although you lose one spellcasting level of Cleric, and 2 levels of turning, you gain your Wisdom and Charisma to AC, Stunning Attack, Unarmed Strike (allowing for subdual damage with fists), as well as access to the exalted feats for the Holy Ki Strike chain. The Consecrated Aura and other abilities more than make up for the 2 levels of turning lost. The ability to take this is assuming the requirement for Sanctify Ki Strike is meant to be Ki Strike (magic) instead of (lawful), and that Exalted Strike +1 (magic) at 4th level from Vow of Poverty would be an equivalent ability to qualify for it. Also fixed a couple things from the above build regarding the Empower/Heighten Turning feats, which require Extra Turning as a prerequisite. Add in Power Attack/Divine Might which will come in handy to use all the turning attempts from the Extra Turning feats given from Sacred Exorcist Reading the description for Ilmater, this character seems perfect for one of his clerics. Plus, it gives him a chance of becoming a Saint (adding the Saint Template from Book of Exalted Deeds)… which I would not mind! The description for Ilmater in FRCS says he has lots of saints in his religion, and the type of cleric is very similar to the one I would play. Not sure if it is worth taking the Sanctify Ki Strike, Fists of the Heavens, Holy Ki Strike chain. Or it might not be possible to take them. It might be better to bump up the other exalted feats and take this chain later on, but I think this is the best progression, if possible. So with the following ability scores (32 point buy), this is possible: Str 14,Dex 12,Con 12,Int 14,Wis 14,Cha 14 Level 1: 10 + 1 (12 Dex) +2 (14 Wis) +4 Exalted(VoP) = 17AC Level 8: 10+ 1(12 Dex) +4(18 Wis) + 8(Exalted) +4(Deflection) +3(Natural) +2(14 Cha) = 25AC Level 12: 10+1(12 Dex)+5(20 Wis) +10(Exalted-VoP) +4(Deflection-VoP) +3(NA-VoP) +3(16 Cha) = 36AC Level 20: 10 + 3(16 Dex) +8(27 Wis) +12(Exalted-VoP) +5(Deflection-VoP) +4(NA) + 5(20 Cha) = 47AC And it keep going up.. and that’s just with standard scores… using average 32 point rule. Could add more by upping Dex using Cat’s Grace, or by adding Dodge bonuses, fighting defensively etc. Possibly could take Expertise instead of one of the turning feats, if AC was really a problem, but it gets pretty darn high. Adding in the Damage Reduction and all the other protective abilities, I would HOPE it would be enough.
gorion 12-08-03, 05:27 AM	Very nice build! I was already playing a Mnk/clr in a game aiming to get AoP and SaE. I'm pleased to see that your progression is very close to mine. A few differences are that I don't want to take a level of MyW (my DM wouldn't allow it) and I can't take Nimph's Kiss (too powerful for my DM). So I have Nimbus of light at first level (aiming for Holy radiance and Stigmata), Vow of Nonviolence at 2nd, Intuitive attack at 4th, Vow of Peace at 6th. Also, because I don't need Iron will I'll take Power attack at 3rd, Divine Might at 6th. At 9th I'll take extend spell and at 12th Persistant spell, along with Consecrate spell at 15th. I'll get out Empower turning and Heighten turning from your build. I have domains of Sun and Glory, and I feel that's enough for this poor undeads :D
CS_Buddy 12-08-03, 10:15 AM	Interesting variant. The Mystic Wanderer Level is a bit of cheese :D If I couldn't do that, I'd probably drop Iron Will, and take Expertise instead. I find the Extend/Persistent combo isn't as useful with a lot of the spells Apostle of the Peace gives. How did you do your spell level progression? Here's how I planned to do mine in Character Levels: Monk1 (0 Spellcasting Level) Clr2-5 (5th Level Cleric Spellcaster) MyW1 (6th Level Cleric Spellcaster) AoP1-4(4th Level AoP Spellcaster) SaE1 (Progresses Cleric - 7th Level Cleric Spellcaster) SaE2-7(Progresses AoP - 10th Level AoP Spellcaster) SaE8-9(Progresses Cleric - 9th Level Cleric Spellcaster) I love the idea of having the Sun and Glory Domains. The Glory Domain is amazing. Which Deity did you choose that had both of them, or how did you get Glory since it's a Prestiege Domain?
gorion 12-08-03, 11:56 AM	Ayailla from the BoED has both Sun and Glory domains :) She is NG. In regard of spell progression my DM changed the AoP spell progression to "+1 caster level". He says that it is less powerful doing so, I don't think so..but, oh well... if it's right for him it's right for me too :D If your DM uses the standard AoP progression drop Extend and persistant spell :)
CS_Buddy 12-08-03, 12:20 PM	:D Well I know which Deity my character will be worshipping if I ever get to play him!!! Thanks! As for changing the spell progression of Apostle of Peace to +1 Caster Level, it is and isn't more powerful. One the one hand, Apostle of Peace gives you 9th level spells in 10 levels, where it normally takes you 17 levels as a normal Cleric. So it's good because you don't FUBAR your caster levels by multiclassing between spellcasting levels of Cleric and AoP, but you have to wait longer to get your higher levels spells (not really), but you don't get as many. You get double the bonus spells (using your amazing Wisdom Score) by having Cleric and AoP spell progression., My build gives 9th level cleric and 10th level Apostle of Peace spells- so you get a lot more. Personally if my DM would allow me to have the Apostle of Peace spells on your list, and go with +1 Caster Level, I would probably take it, just to make things simpler.