Applying aspects of the King of Smack to an ardent? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Applying aspects of the King of Smack to an ardent? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
TrueMallowman
12-09-06, 09:38 PM As the title might suggest, I am now making an ardent character for a campaign with significant amounts of houserules, which essentially erase any class with a spell progression and replace it with the psionic equivalent. The exception is the druid, which loses its casting and wild shape but gets the shapeshift variant feature and one animal companion per four druid levels. Psionic healing also is doubled (effectively making mend wounds identical to heal and so on). The fighter is replaced with the warblade, and the psychic warrior gets full BAB.

I would like to do a psi-gish build, so of course I looked up the King of Smack. Only problem is that really the only effective healing class is the ardent under these rules. I also want to avoid any use of metamorphosis or anything like that, since polymorph's obscene power is one of the many things that led me to design the houserules in the first place. (I'm not DMing, but the guy who is liked the rules I designed.)

So then, CharOp, given a 44 point buy and a character going from 7-20+, what would you do?

Requirements:

-Must have ardent as the primary manifesting class, with access to the Life mantle by level 7. (Primary or secondary, doesn't matter). You can have it be something else, but then you're gonna need a way for me to heal the rest of the party reliably in battle. So I suppose empathic transfer is okay if I have the HP to take it.

-BAB +15 or more by 18th level, +16 or more by 20th.

-Would like to focus on claw attacks; the BAB is for Rapidstrike and Improved Rapidstrike.

-Avoid usage of the metamorphosis or greater metamorphosis power. Expansion and anything else that doesn't mean I need to look up a monster entry to determine my stats is fine, though.

-Race: Silverbrow human or regular human is preferable, though I'll let elan slide if the build needs it. (Silverbrow may be optimal because of the dragonblood subtype and free feat, thus qualifying for Rapidstrike without using a feat and thus putting you a feat up over the elan, two over the standard human.)

So here's my take so far:

Build stub: Silverbrow human ardent 6/slayer 3/sanctified mind 6/slayer +5

Feats by Level:
1: Track, Practiced Manifester, Weapon Focus (claw)
3: Expanded Knowledge (claws of the beast)
6: Expanded Knowledge (energy missile)
9: Iron Will
12: Rapidstrike
15: Twin Power
18: Improved Rapidstrike

Ability scores (unmodified): Str 16, Dex 12, Con 16, Int 10, Wis 18, Cha 10

Mantles: Freedom, Conflict, Life, Physical Power

Dimension Hop, Offensive Presience, Touch of Health, Claws of the Beast, Adrenaline Boost, Vigor
Psionic Lion's Charge, Hustle, From the Brink, Energy Missile
Dimension Slide
Psionic Fly, Immovability
Psionic Teleport, Psychofeedback, Psychic Crush
Mend Wounds, Psionic Restoration
None
Psionic Greater Teleport, True Metabolism, Spirit of War
None
Taeldrin Laesrash
12-09-06, 10:20 PM The point of the KoS was use of the Rapidstrike feat, combined with an augmented Claws of the Beast for lots of damaging strikes. If Silverbrow Humans are still humanoids, then there's not a lot of Smackishness going on. All you really need is to be a race compatible with Rapidstrike, somehow learn Claws of the Beast, and take Warshaper levels.
TrueMallowman
12-09-06, 10:47 PM The feat doesn't say humanoids can't take it in that the text does not say "nonhumanoid", but it does list dragons as one of the available types to take the feat. Now, silverbrow humans have one major advantage over regular humans; the dragonblood subtype. Among the many nice benefits of that subtype are that you qualify for anything that requires the dragon type, including feats. Ergo Rapidstrike is perfectly valid for them to take if they have sufficient BAB.
PhoenixInferno
12-09-06, 10:50 PM The feat doesn't say humanoids can't take it in that the text does not say "nonhumanoid", but it does list dragons as one of the available types to take the feat. Now, silverbrow humans have one major advantage over regular humans; the dragonblood subtype. Among the many nice benefits of that subtype are that you qualify for anything that requires the dragon type, including feats. Ergo Rapidstrike is perfectly valid for them to take if they have sufficient BAB.So what is it about the King of Smack that you can't copy? The powers?
Taeldrin Laesrash
12-09-06, 10:54 PM Oh...I get it now.

The build you have is good. However, you'll want to put levels of Warshaper in (Knowing metamporphosis qualifies).

So basically, you just really need Metamorphosis and Claws of the Beast. Two feats can do that, although I'm sure the powers are in some mantle.
TrueMallowman
12-10-06, 03:28 PM Yeah, but the only real problems I have with that are the following:

1: I need to be acting as a healer, and not just for me.

2: I would like to avoid using metamorphosis. I designed the houserules because of things like polymorph, so using metamorphosis would be somewhat cheating. Plus I don't feel like lugging around another book just so I can have the stats for my new form.

Also, I'm unsure of what equipment to start with (Usual gp for a 7th-level character). I figured I'd grab the usual full plate, but I don't know how high an enhancement to put on it, etc., and I don't know what other items would best benefit me.
Pinky's brain
12-10-06, 03:34 PM The feat doesn't say humanoids can't take it in that the text does not say "nonhumanoid"
It lists the prerequisites, not the preclusions. This is munchkin reasoning (as in cheating).
TrueMallowman
12-10-06, 04:11 PM No it's not. In fact, the whole point of the dragonblood subtype is so that you can take feats like that. :bored: There would literally be no point whatsoever in having the subtype otherwise; it grants nothing other than meeting prerequisites for the awesome dragon-only stuff.
Pinky's brain
12-10-06, 04:13 PM Oops, sorry ... you are right.
TrueMallowman
12-11-06, 10:37 PM Actually... Psychic warrior gets full BAB and can heal with empathic transfer. I could just play a souped-up King of Smack (get Improved Rapidstrike several levels earlier? Hoo yeah.) with a few custom touches. :D
Taeldrin Laesrash
12-12-06, 09:25 AM You could also take a few levels of Sangehirn, if healing ability is really necessary. But...Psychic Warriors have moderate BAB progression, not full.
FriendlyFrog
12-12-06, 09:39 AM You're build's missing one of the best aspects of the Slayer, the Cerebral immunity at level 9. I'd personally change Ardent 6 to Ranger 1/Ardent 4/Slayer +1. You'd get Track for free, so you could take Tap mantle instead of it, and still have the same amount of mantles.
Zemyla
12-12-06, 01:04 PM The Light and Darkness mantle grants the claws of shadow power, which works fundamentally the same way as claws of the beast and is a must for ardent KoSs.
FriendlyFrog
12-12-06, 02:21 PM The cold damage Claws of darkness do limts them, though.
TrueMallowman
12-12-06, 11:18 PM But...Psychic Warriors have moderate BAB progression, not full.

By the house rules, oh yes they do. :D

The only reason I didn't go with CoD is that they last in rounds/level rather than minutes/level. With minutes/level you save a lot of PP in rapid strings of encounters, and you're not likely to run out of juice in the middle of a fight. Oh, and the fact that it's cold damage, while probably not all that important in the long run, could prove annoying if I were to find myself weaponless (and thus healless) against something with cold immunity. I mean, I could take the Pain and Suffering mantle to get Hostile Empathic Transfer, but by that point I'm rapidly running out of feats.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
TrueMallowman 12-09-06, 09:38 PM	As the title might suggest, I am now making an ardent character for a campaign with significant amounts of houserules, which essentially erase any class with a spell progression and replace it with the psionic equivalent. The exception is the druid, which loses its casting and wild shape but gets the shapeshift variant feature and one animal companion per four druid levels. Psionic healing also is doubled (effectively making mend wounds identical to heal and so on). The fighter is replaced with the warblade, and the psychic warrior gets full BAB. I would like to do a psi-gish build, so of course I looked up the King of Smack. Only problem is that really the only effective healing class is the ardent under these rules. I also want to avoid any use of metamorphosis or anything like that, since polymorph's obscene power is one of the many things that led me to design the houserules in the first place. (I'm not DMing, but the guy who is liked the rules I designed.) So then, CharOp, given a 44 point buy and a character going from 7-20+, what would you do? Requirements: -Must have ardent as the primary manifesting class, with access to the Life mantle by level 7. (Primary or secondary, doesn't matter). You can have it be something else, but then you're gonna need a way for me to heal the rest of the party reliably in battle. So I suppose empathic transfer is okay if I have the HP to take it. -BAB +15 or more by 18th level, +16 or more by 20th. -Would like to focus on claw attacks; the BAB is for Rapidstrike and Improved Rapidstrike. -Avoid usage of the metamorphosis or greater metamorphosis power. Expansion and anything else that doesn't mean I need to look up a monster entry to determine my stats is fine, though. -Race: Silverbrow human or regular human is preferable, though I'll let elan slide if the build needs it. (Silverbrow may be optimal because of the dragonblood subtype and free feat, thus qualifying for Rapidstrike without using a feat and thus putting you a feat up over the elan, two over the standard human.) So here's my take so far: Build stub: Silverbrow human ardent 6/slayer 3/sanctified mind 6/slayer +5 Feats by Level: 1: Track, Practiced Manifester, Weapon Focus (claw) 3: Expanded Knowledge (claws of the beast) 6: Expanded Knowledge (energy missile) 9: Iron Will 12: Rapidstrike 15: Twin Power 18: Improved Rapidstrike Ability scores (unmodified): Str 16, Dex 12, Con 16, Int 10, Wis 18, Cha 10 Mantles: Freedom, Conflict, Life, Physical Power Dimension Hop, Offensive Presience, Touch of Health, Claws of the Beast, Adrenaline Boost, Vigor Psionic Lion's Charge, Hustle, From the Brink, Energy Missile Dimension Slide Psionic Fly, Immovability Psionic Teleport, Psychofeedback, Psychic Crush Mend Wounds, Psionic Restoration None Psionic Greater Teleport, True Metabolism, Spirit of War None
Taeldrin Laesrash 12-09-06, 10:20 PM	The point of the KoS was use of the Rapidstrike feat, combined with an augmented Claws of the Beast for lots of damaging strikes. If Silverbrow Humans are still humanoids, then there's not a lot of Smackishness going on. All you really need is to be a race compatible with Rapidstrike, somehow learn Claws of the Beast, and take Warshaper levels.
TrueMallowman 12-09-06, 10:47 PM	The feat doesn't say humanoids can't take it in that the text does not say "nonhumanoid", but it does list dragons as one of the available types to take the feat. Now, silverbrow humans have one major advantage over regular humans; the dragonblood subtype. Among the many nice benefits of that subtype are that you qualify for anything that requires the dragon type, including feats. Ergo Rapidstrike is perfectly valid for them to take if they have sufficient BAB.
PhoenixInferno 12-09-06, 10:50 PM	The feat doesn't say humanoids can't take it in that the text does not say "nonhumanoid", but it does list dragons as one of the available types to take the feat. Now, silverbrow humans have one major advantage over regular humans; the dragonblood subtype. Among the many nice benefits of that subtype are that you qualify for anything that requires the dragon type, including feats. Ergo Rapidstrike is perfectly valid for them to take if they have sufficient BAB.So what is it about the King of Smack that you can't copy? The powers?
Taeldrin Laesrash 12-09-06, 10:54 PM	Oh...I get it now. The build you have is good. However, you'll want to put levels of Warshaper in (Knowing metamporphosis qualifies). So basically, you just really need Metamorphosis and Claws of the Beast. Two feats can do that, although I'm sure the powers are in some mantle.
TrueMallowman 12-10-06, 03:28 PM	Yeah, but the only real problems I have with that are the following: 1: I need to be acting as a healer, and not just for me. 2: I would like to avoid using metamorphosis. I designed the houserules because of things like polymorph, so using metamorphosis would be somewhat cheating. Plus I don't feel like lugging around another book just so I can have the stats for my new form. Also, I'm unsure of what equipment to start with (Usual gp for a 7th-level character). I figured I'd grab the usual full plate, but I don't know how high an enhancement to put on it, etc., and I don't know what other items would best benefit me.
Pinky's brain 12-10-06, 03:34 PM	The feat doesn't say humanoids can't take it in that the text does not say "nonhumanoid" It lists the prerequisites, not the preclusions. This is munchkin reasoning (as in cheating).
TrueMallowman 12-10-06, 04:11 PM	No it's not. In fact, the whole point of the dragonblood subtype is so that you can take feats like that. :bored: There would literally be no point whatsoever in having the subtype otherwise; it grants nothing other than meeting prerequisites for the awesome dragon-only stuff.
Pinky's brain 12-10-06, 04:13 PM	Oops, sorry ... you are right.
TrueMallowman 12-11-06, 10:37 PM	Actually... Psychic warrior gets full BAB and can heal with empathic transfer. I could just play a souped-up King of Smack (get Improved Rapidstrike several levels earlier? Hoo yeah.) with a few custom touches. :D
Taeldrin Laesrash 12-12-06, 09:25 AM	You could also take a few levels of Sangehirn, if healing ability is really necessary. But...Psychic Warriors have moderate BAB progression, not full.
FriendlyFrog 12-12-06, 09:39 AM	You're build's missing one of the best aspects of the Slayer, the Cerebral immunity at level 9. I'd personally change Ardent 6 to Ranger 1/Ardent 4/Slayer +1. You'd get Track for free, so you could take Tap mantle instead of it, and still have the same amount of mantles.
Zemyla 12-12-06, 01:04 PM	The Light and Darkness mantle grants the claws of shadow power, which works fundamentally the same way as claws of the beast and is a must for ardent KoSs.
FriendlyFrog 12-12-06, 02:21 PM	The cold damage Claws of darkness do limts them, though.
TrueMallowman 12-12-06, 11:18 PM	But...Psychic Warriors have moderate BAB progression, not full. By the house rules, oh yes they do. :D The only reason I didn't go with CoD is that they last in rounds/level rather than minutes/level. With minutes/level you save a lot of PP in rapid strings of encounters, and you're not likely to run out of juice in the middle of a fight. Oh, and the fact that it's cold damage, while probably not all that important in the long run, could prove annoying if I were to find myself weaponless (and thus healless) against something with cold immunity. I mean, I could take the Pain and Suffering mantle to get Hostile Empathic Transfer, but by that point I'm rapidly running out of feats.